Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Lilofan]

Remember the good old days of extra magic hours and very extended park hours that didn’t cost extra.

Pepperidge farm remembers

Well at least you are paying extra ( EMH ) to enjoy extra and so forth. With the ever rising cost of airfare you are paying extra for your plane fare to deal with worse conditions.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Well at least you are paying extra ( EMH ) to enjoy extra and so forth. With the ever rising cost of airfare you are paying extra for your plane fare to deal with worse conditions.

Paying more is one thing (inflation, more to offer, etc) but paying extra for less time and experience is another.

 

[Lilofan]

Paying more is one thing (inflation, more to offer, etc) but paying extra for less time and experience is another.

Airlines are not a non profit. They want to get back to profitability ( aka charging more and more for plane fare ).

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I’m not sure how Loews Will play it?

On one hand - it really makes sense for them to stay lower priced when and if possible to draw more people in. Comcast would be wise to subsidize?

But it’s tempting to Jack it up. That’s Disney customers fault…in the end. Paying 300% for the same or most cases diminished services in 20 years. Ridiculous from any angle. That’s not “inflation”…so save that one

I can see them really increasing the premiere ones, assuming they include express pass that covers EU as that will be in big demand/have high value

Guess other option is the current ones stay similar level BUT their included express pass doesn't cover EU, only the upper end hotel on site at EU (the "in park" one) includes that one and the prices for that hotel are like Grand Floridian levels

But then can definitely see them keeping the non-premiere hotels more reasonable and actually at a "value" level

 

[Tha Realest]

You do have to be a little flexible, but if you check the tip board, you can ride most rides without a long wait. We rode Soarin', Test Track and Runaway Railway as a walk-on several times in a row, waited 30 minutes for Rise. I don't have a smartphone (so yes, we're weirdos) and really hate staring at devices, so this has been pretty sweet. No wait for quick service food either even though we didn't use mobile order. The parks still feel crowded to me (who doesn't come very often), but there are times where there are lulls and empty spots, especially morning and evening.

God bless you. In the days of ever increasing insistence on customers using data-tracking devices, this is one of the most punk rock things you can do - and get to experience the parks at their best. Ride the waves and experience the vibes in full. I’m envious!

 

[GhostHost1000]

Airlines are not a non profit. They want to get back to profitability ( aka charging more and more for plane fare ).

I don’t care what the airlines do as much as Disney. I can get to Disney without a plane if needed plus there are several airline options

 

[Lilofan]

I don’t care what the airlines do as much as Disney. I can get to Disney without a plane if needed plus there are several airline options

Disney is an easy target for some to pour their frustrations out on.

 

[Andrew25]

One problem is after hours events keep selling out and MNSSHP and MVMCP will probably be $200pp this year and sell out too.

They allow the day to day parks to become more miserable or stressful to do than before, don’t expand as much as they should, and then have people overpaying for less crowds, or genie+, or dining packages for better seats, etc etc etc

It’s amazing how much things have changed over the years. Loss of hours, experience, food quality, more ride breakdowns and stress than ever before I could go on and on

I have no problem with up-charge "premium" experiences as long as they don't impact the regular day guest experience. Lightning lane to Standby ratios can be absolutely atrocious, dessert parties taking over a good chunk of viewing areas for fireworks, After Hour Events reducing park hours, etc.

I mean, no doubt Universal is playing catch up in terms of infrastructure. WDW is a fully fledged resort with 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, innumerable hotels, a large shopping district, etc. Comcast is trying to build themselves up to that level and EU is the next step they're taking towards that goal.

But Disney is definitely the reactive one here. It was Universal's large scale investment that caused Disney to invest in turn. Not the other way around

And EU will again catch Disney off their game and may cause them to invest in a similar manner over the coming decade or so.

USF is also my least favorite park in Orlando by the way, and DAK is also my favorite. And I also really like IOA. I agree with what you're saying but, I think it's important to make the distinction that Comcast is the proactive one here. Disney is purely reactive and responding to what Comcast is doing in their parks.

I also think the stategies Disney has used to 'respond' have largely been stupid and short sighted.

2010s were the Universal decade, and will probably continue through the 2020s as well. We can argue what were the better projects, but Universal caused Disney to act. Right now we're in a dry spell for Universal projects, but they really are pushing the envelope while Disney is still sitting on its laurels.

Ummmmm 15 minutes for ROTR with over an hour to go?
View attachment 723056

This time last year, I would typically wait 30-45 minutes at park close (I love joining the line at park close on the dot) but the last few weeks I've been able to just walk right into the preshow. Attendance is down, it's still busy, but not like last year.

It’ll be interesting to see how EU actually changes people’s vacation patterns, our last trip we did 5 days at WDW and 2 days at Uni, I don’t see EU changing that, USF is our least favorite park so it’ll get combined into our IOA day and we’ll spend our second Uni day at EU instead.

There was a time we spent 6 days at WDW and no days at Uni so they have definitely started eating into our Disney days, I just think EU is a bigger threat to USF than any of the Disney parks because that’s the weakest park (in our opinion) and will be the easiest to combine into a park hopping day.

I’m kind of surprised Uni went ahead with EU before making more improvements to USF first. I’d say the same if Disney announced a new park while AK and HS are both in desperate need of improvements. Maybe the plan is open EU first and then redo USF with lower attendance.

I agree with your point, and Universal is lucky to have Diagon Alley and the special events at USF. For a lot of guests, I feel like FOMO will guilt them into visiting USF simply for Diagon and the (rumored) entertainment package for next year... hence the rumors of MSEP returning to WDW.

Right now Universal is pretty much focusing on getting the parks fixed up for EU with smaller projects like Kidzone/Minions to keep it fresh while they work on projects for 2026+.

From a branding perspective G+ has been a disaster. I am shocked that a company that is so completely obsessed with its public perception is still sticking with this.

It would be interesting to see what the results would be if they made G+ free. (Temporarily)

I live in Celebration, have an AP, a devoted parks fan... and yet I still don't know anything about Genie or how to use it.

No way is USO planning on lower attendance at ANY of their parks. I’m sure they are planning on the new park raising attendance for both of the other existing parks. And I’m sure it will.

It should raise attendance... but I think they are self-aware unlike Disney and are planning on boosting USF's appearance temporarily by giving it a nighttime entertainment package, smaller special events, and all of the refurbs happening throughout the park.

 

[BlakeW39]

It’ll be interesting to see how EU actually changes people’s vacation patterns, our last trip we did 5 days at WDW and 2 days at Uni, I don’t see EU changing that, USF is our least favorite park so it’ll get combined into our IOA day and we’ll spend our second Uni day at EU instead.

There was a time we spent 6 days at WDW and no days at Uni so they have definitely started eating into our Disney days, I just think EU is a bigger threat to USF than any of the Disney parks because that’s the weakest park (in our opinion) and will be the easiest to combine into a park hopping day.

I’m kind of surprised Uni went ahead with EU before making more improvements to USF first. I’d say the same if Disney announced a new park while AK and HS are both in desperate need of improvements. Maybe the plan is open EU first and then redo USF with lower attendance.

yeah, I agree that USF is a major problem. It's my least favorite of the Disney/Universal parks by a wide margin. I think the entire park needs an overhaul and I think Comcast might work at that once EU is open. There was the Pokemon stuff that was rumored....they'll need to get rid of Simpsons too. I'm thinking they'll structure the park more like IOA and EU with the IP lands. They got a few they can choose from, too.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney is an easy target for some to pour their frustrations out on.

Because they have created so many targets to go after over the last several years

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

From a branding perspective G+ has been a disaster. I am shocked that a company that is so completely obsessed with its public perception is still sticking with this.

It would be interesting to see what the results would be if they made G+ free. (Temporarily)

See now…I think they have abandoned the time honored obsession with public perception.

I think the management philosophy decided that they would determine their own perception…believing that they can control both sides of the consumer paradigm…and we are seeing the first real waves of mistakes based on that miscalculation.

Try putting genie back in the bottle…as it were…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because they have created so many targets to go after over the last several years

Correct. In tennis terms, these are mostly “unforced errors”

Only the reedy creek one is really not based on their own mishandling of business

 

[monothingie]

See now…I think they have abandoned the time honored obsession with public perception.

I’ll rephrase it. The 50% of the public they didn’t toss to the side.

 

[monothingie]

Correct. In tennis terms, these are mostly “unforced errors”

Only the reedy creek one is really not based on their own mishandling of business

Yes ideology topped mishandling their business with that one.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Airlines are not a non profit. They want to get back to profitability ( aka charging more and more for plane fare ).

US based airlines have never really turned a profit. They really are the ultimate case of corporate welfare…and have been run terribly along those lines. Airlines are “weird” since day 1

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’ll rephrase it. The 50% of the public they didn’t toss to the side.

Ahhh…you noticed?

Yes ideology topped mishandling their business with that one.

Heavy dose of “stupidity for gain” on top of that salad.

We agree to disagree there.

 

[monothingie]

Ahhh…you noticed?

Heavy dose of “stupidity for gain” on top of that salad.

We agree to disagree there.

Yes they apparently forgot that people of all types sociopolitical beliefs take vacations.

 

[BlakeW39]

2010s were the Universal decade, and will probably continue through the 2020s as well. We can argue what were the better projects, but Universal caused Disney to act. Right now we're in a dry spell for Universal projects, but they really are pushing the envelope while Disney is still sitting on its laurels.

yes Disney's pretty much just embarassed themselves over the last decade. Outside Pandora there's not been one decision they've made that hasn't been near universally panned. Whereas Universal has respectably increased the value of their resort by a lot....and continues to do so

Right now Universal is pretty much focusing on getting the parks fixed up for EU with smaller projects like Kidzone/Minions to keep it fresh while they work on projects for 2026+.

It seems like they're maneuvering USF to be the more kid friendly park. IOA being the more thrill oriented and EU being somewhere in between. Each park will have slightly different offerings to have optimal appeal for different audiences— sort of like Disney albeit not as extreme and executed very differently

It should raise attendance... but I think they are self-aware unlike Disney and are planning on boosting USF's appearance temporarily by giving it a nighttime entertainment package, smaller special events, and all of the refurbs happening throughout the park.

this for sure... it's almost as if Universal is aware of the mistakes they've made and has tried to correct them? Whereas Disney is just utterly clueless and doubles down on their problems instread of fixing them

 

[Tha Realest]

See now…I think they have abandoned the time honored obsession with public perception.

I think the management philosophy decided that they would determine their own perception…believing that they can control both sides of the consumer paradigm…and we are seeing the first real waves of mistakes based on that miscalculation.

Try putting genie back in the bottle…as it were…

They’re in a pickle here. Hundreds of millions in development costs, juicy revenue stream, physical infrastructure changes to accommodate it. Reducing it to a “free” add on also diminishes its value when/ if they start charging for it again.

 

[Tha Realest]

Yes they apparently forgot that people of all types sociopolitical beliefs take vacations.

I don’t know how much that’s affecting things. If you believe the recent statistics visits to Orlando theme parks are down across the board. Now, how much of that is “Family X is avoiding WDW because of political issues, and Sea World/Uni is catching a stray as they rely on WDW as a driver to the region” is anyone’s guess. But people are still visiting Florida in record numbers - it just seems the Orlando theme parks (not just Disney) aren’t benefiting from those travel tendencies.