Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We were firmly in the middle of "middle class" but with some extra work and savings, we were able to go every other year for over a decade (but never staying on-site, because back then it was just the deluxe resorts) on the back of a larger family vacation. If it wasn't accessible to a family like ours, then the entire model the resort was built on would have imploded long ago. Or is that just a "false notion"?

No…that was exactly the notion and why it worked for the “non world war” half of the 20th century…

And work it did. Until a low talent Napoleon decided it was that pricing was open ended due to his SHEER WILLLLLL!

One caveat. Remember there was no “deluxe resorts”…the poly and contemporary doubled on the night of 9/30/1988…because the class system started when the neon nightmare known as caribbean opened 8 hours later…

And the caste system was born!!!

 

[UNCgolf]

But don’t underestimate the guest dissatisfaction with long lines pre-FastPass. People were complaining - loudly and consistently - about long lines in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s. I’m sure that was a consideration.

I think some of this is relative; what was a "long line" in the 80s and 90s was generally shorter than what's considered a long line now. A long line now can be 2+ hours (and sometimes at multiple attractions in the same park); back then a long line was more like 45 minutes. The longest line I ever remember seeing in the 1990s was Splash Mountain at an hour -- I'm sure lines occasionally got longer than that, especially at the busiest times, but it wasn't a regular occurrence.

It was also helped by the capacity levels. EPCOT in particular had more capacity then in multiple ways, and I think the Magic Kingdom probably had more as well due to currently shuttered spaces and a decrease in live entertainment etc., although opening TRON helped.

 

[Nubs70]

Here's a look at some posted wait times around 12:45pm today.

View attachment 749338

View attachment 749339

View attachment 749340

Be really nice if they published concurrent design throughput. IE.... 125 minute wait at 80% of design capacity

 

[Chi84]

I think some of this is relative; what was a "long line" in the 80s and 90s was generally shorter than what's considered a long line now. A long line now can be 2+ hours (and sometimes at multiple attractions in the same park); back then a long line was more like 45 minutes. The longest line I ever remember seeing in the 1990s was Splash Mountain at an hour -- I'm sure lines occasionally got longer than that, especially at the busiest times, but it wasn't a regular occurrence.

It was also helped by the capacity levels. EPCOT in particular had more capacity then in multiple ways, and I think the Magic Kingdom probably had more as well due to currently shuttered spaces and a decrease in live entertainment etc., although opening TRON helped.

What you’re saying is true, but lines for the headliners like Splash and Space were routinely as long as 60 minutes and often longer, even at less busy times. A long line of 45 minutes was still a long line and people didn’t want to wait in them.

There absolutely was guest dissatisfaction with long lines in the ‘90s - and it wasn’t limited to the busiest times of the year. We visited nearly every year from 1984 until 2020 and avoided the busiest times. It’s silly to say people were not displeased with wait times to the extent that it was not a problem for Disney.

 

[Lilofan]

Wouldn’t that be unnecessary if the lines weren’t long?

We went back in the day after Labor Day to MGM, the CM stood by the chalk hand written Tip Board on a slow park day and we noticed a guest was usually asking them a question. At times we asked the CM to take a picture of us with our 35mm camera.

 

[Andrew25]

220 minute wait for Rock and Roller Coaster

160 for Slinky
90 Soarin
110 Remy
125 Mission Space

What is going on today lol

 

[Lilofan]

220 minute wait for Rock and Roller Coaster

160 for Slinky
90 Soarin
110 Remy
125 Mission Space

What is going on today lol

No way I can hold it in my bladder for 220 min.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There were long lines during the “busy seasons” in the 80s and 90s…but also much cheaper prices relative, better labor and operations practices to handle the crowds, and off seasons where you could actually enjoy the place.

Over the last 20…yes…you do the math…they have gone away from addressing all those things.

But it’s not a 1:1 to the challenges and stench of the genie now.

I’ve also been assured the WORST crowds ever were 1971-1973

And another thing about that: people are different and expectations are as well. It’s up to Disney to adjust. Tough gig.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

220 minute wait for Rock and Roller Coaster

160 for Slinky
90 Soarin
110 Remy
125 Mission Space

What is going on today lol

Maybe the college program went on strike?

No way I can hold it in my bladder for 220 min.

You pee in the rehearsal room during the preshow…come on, rookie!!

 

[Nubs70]

220 minute wait for Rock and Roller Coaster

160 for Slinky
90 Soarin
110 Remy
125 Mission Space

What is going on today lol

1. 100% design throughput
2. Less than 100% design throughput
3. Inaccurate wait times
4. A combination of 1 or 2, and 3

If like any manufacturing facility, eliminate the possibility of 2 and 3, then you could.confidently report that the park is packed.

 

[celluloid]

Making charitable contributions increases revenue? That's a bold statement and I'd like a cite. (This article says it's possible, under some circumstances. "It's possible" doesn't mean it happens, or that it's the main reason a company does it.)

People do tax write offs all of the time.

Donations are great good will, and it does not take away the good that they do, but there is also often something to gain from it. Its not a bad thing. Also, it gets people talking. Particularly evident when major charitable donations are publicized and responded to by PR departments.
You saying a charitable donation has a main reason of profit is not at all what I said. That is obtuse and a different subject than what we are discussing here. Fastpass was not a charity. Even if you feel it is a service, it is to a paying guest. Don't conflate that. It is nonsense.

Back to the topic.

Why does one satisfy guests?

Let's sum it up this way.

Who spends more money and creates better revenue situations?

Dad and mom who spent money and time on this big theme park vacation only to see that the waits are all pretty long. And are frustrated to walk around in the heat.

Or.

Dad and mom see a five minute longer wait on a few other attractions they wait for until their window is ready as they are going to get to skip on average three lines of a ride or first show seating a day? That family is going to be psychologically satisficed, and buy more drinks, food and merch as the company is great in their minds.

Some of you are arguing the same thing I am saying. You just don't care to admit that a business satisifies guests for increased revenue.

You satisfy guests so that they spend more money. That gains your revenue.

 

[Nubs70]

People do tax write offs all of the time.

Donations are great good will, and it does not take away the good that they do, but there is also often something to gain from it. Its not a bad thing. Also, it gets people talking. Particularly evident when major charitable donations are publicized and responded to by PR departments.
You saying a charitable donation has a main reason of profit is not at all what I said. That is obtuse and a different subject than what we are discussing here. Fastpass was not a charity. Even if you feel it is a service, it is to a paying guest. Don't conflate that. It is nonsense.

Back to the topic.

Why does one satisfy guests?

Let's sum it up this way.

Who spends more money and creates better revenue situations?

Dad and mom who spent money and time on this big theme park vacation only to see that the waits are all pretty long. And are frustrated to walk around in the heat.

Or.

Dad and mom see a five minute longer wait on a few other attractions they wait for until their window is ready as they are going to get to skip on average three lines of a ride or first show seating a day? That family is going to be psychologically satisficed, and buy more drinks, food and merch as the company is great in their minds.

Some of you are arguing the same thing I am saying. You just don't care to admit that a business satisifies guests for increased revenue.

You satisfy guests so that they spend more money. That gains your revenue.

One satisfies customers to create a base level of customers that covers the fixed costs of operation. Then every additional customer above base level is incremental profit.

The Bob's have seemed to be hell bent on reducing the # of base customers needed by increasing prices needed to cover cost of operation. When prices rise and purchase power decreases, the foundation of base customer erodes.

 

[lentesta]

People do tax write offs all of the time.

Donations are great good will, and it does not take away the good that they do, but there is also often something to gain from it. Its not a bad thing. Also, it gets people talking. Particularly evident when major charitable donations are publicized and responded to by PR departments.
You saying a charitable donation has a main reason of profit is not at all what I said. That is obtuse and a different subject than what we are discussing here. Fastpass was not a charity. Even if you feel it is a service, it is to a paying guest. Don't conflate that. It is nonsense.

Back to the topic.

Why does one satisfy guests?

Let's sum it up this way.

Who spends more money and creates better revenue situations?

Dad and mom who spent money and time on this big theme park vacation only to see that the waits are all pretty long. And are frustrated to walk around in the heat.

Or.

Dad and mom see a five minute longer wait on a few other attractions they wait for until their window is ready as they are going to get to skip on average three lines of a ride or first show seating a day? That family is going to be psychologically satisficed, and buy more drinks, food and merch as the company is great in their minds.

Some of you are arguing the same thing I am saying. You just don't care to admit that a business satisifies guests for increased revenue.

You satisfy guests so that they spend more money. That gains your revenue.

Thank you for your input.

 

[celluloid]

One satisfies customers to create a base level of customers that covers the fixed costs of operation. Then every additional customer above base level is incremental profit.

The Bob's have seemed to be hell bent on reducing the # of base customers needed by increasing prices needed to cover cost of operation. When prices rise and purchase power decreases, the foundation of base customer erodes.

Indeed. But with attractions and experiences you also build a catalyst that has people returning. Happy people of course return when they felt value. There are not enough new people alone to support theme parks. They are having a rougher time giving people leaving with a value feeling.
Eroding customer base is certainly what has happened.

Short sighted grabs is the modern Bob Speciality for the theme parks.

They just can't frequently produce a great product anymore.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I understand the reasoning. I'm saying specifically that no internal document I've ever seen, mentions revenue as the reason for FP+.

Do you have a document that says this? Or maybe an earnings call comment before they launched FP+ where they specifically said "we're doing this mostly for revenue?"

Because if they didn't tell the board it was for revenue, and they didn't tell stockholders it was for revenue, and they said it was for something else, we kinda have to believe it was for the something else, right?

Aw, you're sweet. You never heard of a thing called a "conspiracy theory."

It has the power to prove one is right without any evidence simply because it 'feels right.'

Advanced conspiracy theory is able to deal with countervailing evidence by simply calling it a lie. And those presenting countervailing evidence are in on the conspiracy or are hoodwinked into being agents of the conspiracy because of their faulty mental capacities.

 

[JoeCamel]

220 minute wait for Rock and Roller Coaster

160 for Slinky
90 Soarin
110 Remy
125 Mission Space

What is going on today lol

What is the weather like?

 

[SamusAranX]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

I would have agreed with this up until the late 2010s.

It may have a @Sirwalterraleigh but someone posted before a line graph of over time how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation and the some with their price increases. Disney used to be a bit more accessible financially AND came with more value that families no longer see and have to pay extra for on top of their ticket increases (no ME = transport or rental car costs, no free magic bands, no free fast pass etc)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Aw, you're sweet. You never heard of a thing called a "conspiracy theory."

It has the power to prove one is right without any evidence simply because it 'feels right.'

Advanced conspiracy theory is able to deal with countervailing evidence by simply calling it a lie. And those presenting countervailing evidence are in on the conspiracy or are hoodwinked into being agents of the conspiracy because of their faulty mental capacities.

Now that we’ve covered conspiracy theories…

Can we cover apparent adults that have a level of naivety for their favorite product on a level that could be considered a public nuisance?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would have agreed with this up until the late 2010s.

It may have a @Sirwalterraleigh but someone posted before a line graph of over time how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation and the some with their price increases. Disney used to be a bit more accessible financially AND came with more value that families no longer see and have to pay extra for on top of their ticket increases (no ME = transport or rental car costs, no free magic bands, no free fast pass etc)

It was not me…others far better at it do the numbers…

I just speak truth to magic rodent power based on those numbers

 

[eliza61nyc]

Literally no one has said that, but you keep doing you.

I apologize you are absolutely right no one said literally that Disney was affordable to everyone, I guess it was all the inferences ( something that is inferred ) about how all middle class folks could go if they wanted too.


Thank you, I plan on staying fabulous.