Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[TheMaxRebo]

1. 100% design throughput
2. Less than 100% design throughput
3. Inaccurate wait times
4. A combination of 1 or 2, and 3

If like any manufacturing facility, eliminate the possibility of 2 and 3, then you could.confidently report that the park is packed.

Just checked the Lines app (which is reported not posted) and has the following (obviously a bit later in the day, but ....):

Slinky: 73 mins
Soarin': 42 mins
Remy: 54 mins
Mission Space: 10 mins


Mission Space definitely seems like something off, but others are legit decent waits

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Two things can be gleaned confidently - but not absolutely proven:

1. Disney park trips were never accessible to everyone. That is 99.999% true. Many were never in the range and many more were priced out incrementally over decades

2. They have never APPEARED to be shedding customers anywhere close to this level in “good economic times” - as Jim Cramer still swears they are each day - to the extent they have already in Orlando…by their admission. 6% in a quarter is a shocking number (I promise…even if you don’t believe me)…and it could get silly soon. Increasing prices damn near weekly is a red flag that they’re trying to prop up “per guest spending”…which is code for “losing people”.
That’s what’s different here…it’s not the 1991 bush crash or the 2002 “brave new world” glut…or the Monopoly money mortgage flameout…

This appears to be entirely self inflicted.

Both things can be and likely are true.

Plenty of you should read this a second time.

 

[Kman]

Sooo...considering all of the above, what do you think the chances are they will have further accommodations discounts in April? We're planning on being there April 20-24 and holding off on booking for now.

 

[JoeCamel]

I would have agreed with this up until the late 2010s.

It may have a @Sirwalterraleigh but someone posted before a line graph of over time how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation and the some with their price increases. Disney used to be a bit more accessible financially AND came with more value that families no longer see and have to pay extra for on top of their ticket increases (no ME = transport or rental car costs, no free magic bands, no free fast pass etc)

@ParentsOf4

 

[Nubs70]

Indeed. But with attractions and experiences you also build a catalyst that has people returning. Happy people of course return when they felt value. There are not enough new people alone to support theme parks. They are having a rougher time giving people leaving with a value feeling.
Eroding customer base is certainly what has happened.

Short sighted grabs is the modern Bob Speciality for the theme parks.

They just can't frequently produce a great product anymore.

Correct.

It is the happy people that return who make up the base level.

 

[celluloid]

Correct.

It is the happy people that return who make up the base level.

Plus more. Families tend to grow and expand with bigger trips who spend more upon return and often bring more in numbers. Increased revenue. You lose so much of your base, your revenue as a theme park actually shrinks as even if you had many new people visit, you disappointed more. Even when some return, they may be more conservative if they have other places to spend it or don't see the same value. Not as much net.

Reaching for pennies while dollars fly over their head.

 

[ParentsOf4]

@ParentsOf4

The closest thing I posted to "how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation" was WDW ticket price increases vs. household income, but I haven't updated this in a while:

 

[JD80]

The closest thing I posted to "how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation" was WDW ticket price increases vs. household income, but I haven't updated this in a while:

View attachment 749524

Would you mind sharing the data behind that? Love the chart.

 

[evenstephan]

The closest thing I posted to "how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation" was WDW ticket price increases vs. household income, but I haven't updated this in a while:

View attachment 749524

That's a really interesting chart. Is there a way, do you think, to factor in population increase? According to census data, the population of the US has grown by a third since 1990 (248.7 million in 1990, 331.4 million in 2020). I realize that the chart shows income percentage numbers which can be compared like-to-like, but the actual numbers would, I think, make a difference also. Prices are being raised to make much more money, undoubtedly, but is it in any way being used to limit capacity (e.g., not appealing to the top X% of the population, but rather an objective number whose corresponding income level continues to rise because the population does)? It's a genuine question, and not meant to be a slight on the data representation in any way. I can't quite figure out how to go about figuring out whether population growth is an issue, and if so, by how much.

 

[HauntedPirate]

The closest thing I posted to "how Disney has outpaced the standard rate of inflation" was WDW ticket price increases vs. household income, but I haven't updated this in a while:

View attachment 749524

BuT wDw HaS nEvEr BeEn AcCeSsIbLe To MoSt PeOpLe…

 

[celluloid]

My sister and I had a joke by the time we both became adults in early 2000s that there is inflation, and Disney inflation. But also fact.

 

[jpinkc]

Dont forget Disney Shrinkflation as well................

 

[networkpro]

Dont forget Disney Shrinkflation as well................

The Supermarkets are much better at that.

 

[DisneyCane]

The Supermarkets are much better at that.

Some restaurants are pretty good at it as well!

 

[Cliff]

I’m not sure why people are doubting parks attendance slumping. Iger has literally done this twice in public.

Sun Valley live interview - He blamed park attendance problems on extremely hot Florida summer weather.

Public investor call - Park attendance problem is due to last year’s extremely successful 50th celebration.

This has been addressed and explained in public Disney statements. Why are people doubting Disney’s OWN explanation for this?

 

[JoeCamel]

I’m not sure why people are doubting parks attendance slumping. Iger has literally twice in public.

Sun Valley live interview - He blamed park attendance problems on extremely hot Florida summer weather.

Public investor call - Park attendance problem is due to last year’s extremely successful 50th celebration.

This has beed addressed and explained in public Disney statements. Why are people doubting Disney’s OWN explanation for this?

We don't trust the mouse any more

 

[Miss Bella]

Of course Disney prices have outplaced inflation and priced more people out,

I simply object to the claim that Disney has always been accessible to everyone.

At its' cheapest, there were still people who could not go.

It sucks for people who have been subsequently priced out but a lot, probably most, of those people weren't concerned about the have nots at the time. It's only when they personally feel priced out that it's an issue.

I would say it's always been a small percentage of people that WDW was accessible to. I know it doesn't feel that way, but people come from all over the world to visit WDW. The world is not in a good place right now in more ways than one...time will tell how this plays out on WDW attendance.

You can't blame it all on Disney. You need a strong global economy for Disney to succeed. Disney is doing nothing to help themselves in the current situation, They are just making things worse.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Disney is doing nothing to help themselves in the current situation, They are just making things worse.

Goose... golden egg... etc.

 

[Cliff]

To all the Pixie Duster Parks fans that believe the attendance problem is only a conspiracy theory pushed by Disney haters:

I wish you guys would accept that it IS an actual problem and accept Disney's public explanation for the problem. I know it's not an easy thing to accept and I know it's disturbing...but it's a fact.

 

[HauntedPirate]

The U.S. States Most Impacted By Household Debt 2023

NationalBusinessCapital.com’s inaugural report: The U.S. States Most Impacted By Household Debt 2023, dives deep into US household debt trends.

www.nationalbusinesscapital.com

"49 out of 50 states with household debt exceeding household income"

Everything is fine, Bob. "Raise prices! Because the sheep will show up no matter what because our world-class entertainment offerings have limitless revenue potential due to Disney's unparalleled storytelling and character catalogue." (Did I use enough meaningless buzzwords like Disney PR?)