Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Grimley1968]

How big of a "problem" is there, if only one of your resorts are having issues and apparently those issues are easily overcome by your other operating resorts?

For the guests, a massive problem, and one that might mean a "one and done" visit to WDW versus being a regular customer for years.

People who can only realistically go to WDW and none of the other Disney parks don't care how the Disney corporation is doing or how well they cover losses for WDW, or use WDW as an ATM for other struggling parks. They only see that their experience is now diminished versus times when Disney viewed WDW as something more special than simply a profit center for the corporation.

 

[GhostHost1000]

How big of a "problem" is there, if only one of your resorts are having issues and apparently those issues are easily overcome by your other operating resorts?

Oh wow is that what you really think is the issue here?

 

[HauntedPirate]

Fair, though they have had some pretty good quarters DPEP side post Covid considering not all parks have been up and operational this whole time and the cruise ships didn't really get back into full swing until sometime last year.


Yes, but that only works if you charge more and enough people keep going which, in the case of Disney, is what has been happening. That being said, I completely agree that there is a limit to how much they can push this but the question is have they hit it?

What we have been hearing about soft bookings is certainly one indicator that people aren't having it right now but does that translate into any significant loss? Does it even last? Does Disney adjust anything that bring people back in enough numbers to offset any attendance decrease? We just don't know yet.

Personally, I think D23 is where we are going to find out a lot. D+ should finally be in the black, studios should finally be releasing films that were developed under the new structure, and Imagineering will have had time to be restaffed and redirected to projects that make more sense then the junk thrown out there in 2021.

I fully expect DCL and the international parks to prop up the numbers for 2023. Which is quite the turnaround from just about every other year.

I think they have reached the limits for some, but not others. Some will go no matter what, for reasons that are personal to them. Others look at things more rationally and say, "thanks but no thanks" when seeing prices and other options. Others go because that's what they think they're supposed to do for little Johnny and Susie. But with more information, reviews, and opinions available than ever, it's easy to arm yourself with data before making the decision. As the years have gone by, I've realized it's really something that has to be looked at with a logical lens and not an emotional one.

I personally don't see the soft bookings going away anytime soon. I just don't think there's enough demand after the post-Covid "travel binge" finally subsided to sustain things at a level Bob and Josh want/need. And to believe that leisure travel demand will just happily continue and won't be affected by inflation, rising interest rates, debt levels at record levels, etc., is naive, at best. It's been said long and often enough but some here never seem to remember it - Leisure travel is one of the first things to go when times get tough. There have been many reports this year of record travel into Orlando and Florida in general, but park attendance and resort bookings have not been reflective of that, both at WDW and up I-4.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Even if revenue is down, then that means Disney only profits $4B in the year instead of $5B.

That's still $4B profit.

If the independent auditors find that Hulu is worth, let's say $39B instead of $29, then that means Disney buys out Comcast at $13B instead of $9B. An extra $4B. Which Disney makes in a year.

On top of that, Disney will then have 100% control of Hulu. Its profits from Hulu will increase by 50%.

On top of that, Disney's total debt isn't that bad. Compare to Comcast which has $100B in debt. And Disney had ready access to short term loans... which can be paid off by having many years of $4-6B in annual profits.

 

[el_super]

Oh wow is that what you really think is the issue here?

I don't really think there is an issue here at all. They will be fine.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I don't really think there is an issue here at all. They will be fine.

Disney is perfect, makes great decisions, and has no issues. Got it.

 

[Chi84]

Disney is perfect, makes great decisions, and has no issues. Got it.

There’s a lot of room between fine and perfect, isn’t there?

 

[GhostHost1000]

There’s a lot of room between fine and perfect, isn’t there?

Ok so Disney is fine and has no issues.

Are we really believing this?

 

[Chi84]

Ok so Disney is fine and has no issues.

Are we really believing this?

I think they have issues but those issues aren’t going to seriously hurt their business for quite some time.

 

[celluloid]

The company has a PROMISE/CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION to Comcast - they do not have a debt to them.

Debt in this context of financial statements and has a very specific meaning. We do not call the leases the company owes, or their future taxes DEBT even tho they owe people money for those or made promises to pay those. Because debt is not just something they made a promise to pay a bill in the future.

This is also why 'debt' != 'liability'. Debt is a specific kind of liability.. the kind of obligation to a creditor longer than 12 months.

Their obligation for Hulu isn't a payment plan. It's not a debt in their financial statements either. Which is why it's not there on the balance sheet now. As well as the naive hand waving about their cash balance and the Hulu transaction.

Disney isn't going to zero out cash reserves to buy Hulu.

No one said they were going to zero out cash reserves.

But debt owed is debt owed.

Think of things you finance. Like say, a Mortgage.

You are not expected it pay it all at once, but you are in debt to it.
The etymology literally comes from the Debt until death.

Disney has a debt to comcast because they owe them. What they decide is what they decide and how it is done. But they still owe them. It is still a debt.

Be careful Mr. Ostrich with all that sand you may eat with your head in it.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I think they have issues but those issues aren’t going to seriously hurt their business for quite some time.

Ok.

You have seen their stock performance over the years right?

 

[Chi84]

Ok.

You have seen their stock performance over the years right?

No.

 

[flynnibus]

The etymology literally comes from the Debt until death.

This isn't an etymology discussion - it's a discussion using numbers and labels from the balance sheet of a publicly traded company. Maybe you should think about that when you try to take somethings from column A and compare them to pineapples.

Their upcoming obligation for Hulu has nothing to do with financing or deferred payments or anything of that sort.

And for zeroing cash - you did when you tried to connect their entire cash balance being 1:1 replaced with debt.

 

[celluloid]

This isn't an etymology discussion -

You tried to educate me on a word's meaning. You literally typed the definition of debt. Take the loss.
Don't use words, or argue them unless you are aware of their meaning.
Disney owes Comcast for these things that were Comcast's share to buy them out For a company in a steady decline and likely more rough waters ahead, not looking great in the near future.

 

[flynnibus]

You tried to educate me on a word's meaning. You literally typed the definition of debt. Take the loss.
Don't use words, or argue them unless you are aware of their meaning.

Hopefully you realize when you hit China... because you've apparently gone so deep you see no where else to go but further down.

We're talking about regulated industry with well defined terms and literal crimes if the existing material in front of us was wrong.. yet here you go beating the drum that you alone are the beacon of right. It's cute.

 

[celluloid]

Hopefully you realize when you hit China... because you've apparently gone so deep you see no where else to go but further down.

Man, there is something that could have been said to Bob Iger.

 

[Lilofan]

Ok.

You have seen their stock performance over the years right?

And the Disney Board still brings back the guy in charge. Where is that shareholder revolt ? The Yeti at AK will get fixed before that happens.

 

[GhostHost1000]

And the Disney Board still brings back the guy in charge. Where is that shareholder revolt ? The Yeti at AK will get fixed before that happens.

Can’t say I disagree with you there. It’s unreal honestly. Bob AND the yeti never being fixed lol

 

[LSLS]

How big of a "problem" is there, if only one of your resorts are having issues and apparently those issues are easily overcome by your other operating resorts?

You are moving goalposts. You went from questioning if there is any sort of attendance problem, to saying they still have record revenue, to now saying WDW is down, but that it's not a problem because other resorts are doing alright. WDW appears to be having issues (Q4 will tell more), and you are kidding yourself if you think that is not a concern for the company as a whole. I mean, rough estimate, WDW is what, somewhere between 1/5 and 1/7 the total revenue for the company (my calculations, Q3 had $22 billion in revenue, domestic parks had $5.5 billion. If we assume WDW is 60%-75% of the domestic parks)? It is not a "WE ARE GOING BANKRUPT" problem, but it's a concern I guarantee is discussed behind closed doors and they will try to remedy. And I'll say again, this is about attendance issues at WDW.

 

[JD80]

No I am not. You are trying to make broad generalization to defend your point and throwing all accuracy out the window in the attempt to cling onto your statement instead of being open to how your assumptions are wrong.


The company has a PROMISE/CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION to Comcast - they do not have a debt to them.

Debt in this context of financial statements and has a very specific meaning. We do not call the leases the company owes, or their future taxes DEBT even tho they owe people money for those or made promises to pay those. Because debt is not just something they made a promise to pay a bill in the future.

This is also why 'debt' != 'liability'. Debt is a specific kind of liability.. the kind of obligation to a creditor longer than 12 months.

Their obligation for Hulu isn't a payment plan. It's not a debt in their financial statements either. Which is why it's not there on the balance sheet now. As well as the naive hand waving about their cash balance and the Hulu transaction.

Disney isn't going to zero out cash reserves to buy Hulu.

Appreciate the detailed post, but you're running head first into a wall of a mental process that thinks the Government's budget should be run like a household of 4's budget by simply balancing their checkbook.