Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[drizgirl]

There really isn't even a question that crowds are down. Disney said as much about WDW during the last earnings report and all their actions since indicate that is still the case. We even have people with inside information on bookings saying the same.

So, unless it recovered almost instantaneously over the past few weeks, it's down. Maybe not enough to feel like a ghost town but that doesn't mean there aren't less people showing up.

The parks can drop a lot in attendance before guests notice. Disney definitely notices. I'm really not shocked people don't "feel" a 20% drop. But Uncle Scrooge definitely notices there are fewer piles of gold coins stacking up in the vault.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The parks can drop a lot in attendance before guests notice. Disney definitely notices. I'm really not shocked people don't "feel" a 20% drop. But Uncle Scrooge definitely notices there are fewer piles of gold coins stacking up in the vault.

A 5% drop is YUGE

…for Disney…not for the plebs. They won’t care about your “magic level” as long as you’ll pay and more for what they will give you.

 

[LSLS]

'Feels busy' is definitely quantifiable.

If you go regularly..as in, you've been over 100 times...you get a feel for the parks and what is busy and what is not.

You can't just ignore a regular because a regular knows what a quiet day and a busy day feels like..through experience. They've been through every sort of day at these parks and they will know within an hour of being in the park how that day will pan out with queues.

LOL, that's, um, not quantifiable. Having a feel for the park crowd levels is not a measurable thing. You could be right, but that doesn't make it quantifiable.

Here's the other part of that. Is it possible to feel crowded with less people? If less people are say working the store counter, it could make the store feel like it has more people in it because people are moving slower through lines. Or if less operators are running rides/running them slower than normal, that too, makes things feel more crowded. I have NO idea if that (and other similar things) are occurring, but it's something to consider. What we absolutely do know is hotel bookings are way down, and they are offering some pretty incredible discounts to get locals into the parks. It could be to make things over-crowded and sell more Genie, but it equally could be that they have the ability to ramp up staffing at the parks to accommodate more people and they are trying to get people to book hotels and spend at the parks.

 

[Lilofan]

I think it was September 2021 that the restriction to enter USA from UK was lifted after covid(I was on one of the first flights out lol)

I think the only final other restriction after that was those who weren't vaccinated, which I think lifted more recently.

Maybe it's the anti vaxxers filling the parks lol

Your conspiracy theories are quite off the all with no basis of evidence.

 

[el_super]

So, unless it recovered almost instantaneously over the past few weeks, it's down.

It's possible they are back up. Their comments about attendance being down were in regard to the 3rd quarter that ended on July 1st. They won't report for Q4 until Nov. It makes sense to a degree that attendance would tick up with the seasonal activation (Halloween / Food and Wine). And of course the point of the discounting is to bring more people...

 

[Marionnette]

Yep, I've definitely experienced this during the last 3 weeks.

Disney has purposely delayed the start of some of their big attractions to manipulate people to other rides to get those wait times up and therefore more people buying Genie+ and they don't want to wait.

I noticed this multiple times:

Epcot: Frozen on two occasions
Test Track on another

HS : Rise OTR - on 3 occasions
ToT - once
RnRC - once
MnMRR- once

AK - Everest Once

MK - 7D once
Pirates once
Peter Pan once

It seemed a massively reoccurring theme on this trip compared to any other..the delayed opening of attractions.

TBH, I don't think that any of those delayed openings were intentional. I was saying that Disney will manipulate the number of guests per hour passing thru attractions in order to keep their wait times within set parameters. You seem to think that Disney intentionally closes attractions to drive guests to other queues, drive up their wait times and therefore sell more Genie+. I just don't subscribe to that theory.

 

[BuddyThomas]

True...another thing Disney messed up on to ruin yet another trip.

Hopefully you never have to return for three weeks to such a horrible place again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Everyone needs to look outside the box on this.

I've been in the parks every day for the last 3 weeks and I can tell you it's very very busy - I come to Orlando 2 or 3 times a year and it's certainly as busy as I've known it (Possibly not quite as busy as the week before Xmas) -people don't have to believe me, but it is what it is.

Disney arent reducing prices because the parks are empty, they are doing it because the parks are FULL. They know full well if the park is full and they can tempt another 1000 people into each park each day...it will most likely end up with more and more people buying G+ and LL+ becaise they are fed up with the long queue times...so it's a win win for Disney.

It will make the park even more busy and miserable for more people, but you must know by now Disney does not give a damn about guest satisfaction, at this point its 100% about the money.

Time for you to find a different vacation spot to drop your three weeks, multiple times a year (what job do you have?????) vacation dollars if you feel this way.

 

[Thepuma]

TBH, I don't think that any of those delayed openings were intentional. I was saying that Disney will manipulate the number of guests per hour passing thru attractions in order to keep their wait times within set parameters. You seem to think that Disney intentionally closes attractions to drive guests to other queues, drive up their wait times and therefore sell more Genie+. I just don't subscribe to that theory.

It never crossed my mind to be honest until I recently spoke to an ex Disney Cast member, and then it all made sense.

Let's be honest, the sheer number of times in the last 3 weeks that rides have been on a delayed openening is not just 'coincidence'

 

[PREMiERdrum]

September being less bad than July and August is still bad.

Plenty to take in based off the latest FL ticket promo.

Note that they've avoided publicly expanding room discounts, though quiet changes have been made. Hotel bookings remain historically soft.

Some interesting comments on announcements and timelines to try and build buzz. We'll see.

 

[Thepuma]

Time for you to find a different vacation spot to drop your three weeks, multiple times a year (what job do you have?????) vacation dollars if you feel this way.

This trip was my last...im off to Japan in January and hopefully Australia next summer. So I've taken your advice already in advance. lol.

No, I don't do 3 weeks 3 times a year..

I do 7 days in January, 10 days in May and 18 days in Aug/Sept...its normally only 2 weeks in Aug/Sept but I had a few days owing to me at work for working the Bank Holidays.

 

[el_super]

September being less bad than July and August is still bad.

Plenty to take in based off the latest FL ticket promo.

We will have to wait until the revenue is posted again in November to know for sure, but it sounds like too much weight is being given to ticket discounts and promotions as being negative indicators.

You can sell 100 hotel rooms for $1 and make $100 or sell 50 rooms for $2 and make the same $100 back. 50% decrease in occupancy, but same revenue (plus some savings on operating costs). Discount the remaining inventory and sell a few more rooms at $1.50 and you come out ahead.

This seems to be closer to what is going on with the increases in revenue.

 

[Dranth]

It's possible they are back up. Their comments about attendance being down were in regard to the 3rd quarter that ended on July 1st. They won't report for Q4 until Nov. It makes sense to a degree that attendance would tick up with the seasonal activation (Halloween / Food and Wine). And of course the point of the discounting is to bring more people...

Entirely possible. Doesn't seem likely given what we know from insiders about bookings but that doesn't rule it out. From a purely selfish point of view, I hope it is down. Got a trip coming up end of November and I would love some low crowd days.

Either way, we will get a reasonable idea of the overall picture come next earnings call.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Time for you to find a different vacation spot to drop your three weeks, multiple times a year (what job do you have?????) vacation dollars if you feel this way.

For once…I agree with you. 3 weeks is beyond overkill in a manufactured reality.

I bet a much better one

 

[Grimley1968]

IMO, there could be two possible reasons for such a massive discount being offered to Florida residents:

a) WDW sees a significant lack of attendance, especially from locals (note that this is not necessarily immediately a loss of revenue). So they offer the discount to at least drive up attendance from locals at the parks, even if that won't greatly impact the lack of resort bookings in the short term.

or (far less likely):

b) WDW is attempting to recalibrate the cost of park tickets for locals to better align with a decreased value of the WDW park experience

Given the amount of money and effort Disney has spent in creating the diminished park experience, it's hard to imagine they'd admit their colossal mistakes, even tacitly. So I'm going with a) as the most likely explanation, aided by years of watching discounts rise or fall depending on park attendance or resort bookings.

 

[Ayla]

Time for you to find a different vacation spot to drop your three weeks, multiple times a year (what job do you have?????) vacation dollars if you feel this way.

It's very common for Europeans/Brits to take 2-4 weeks vacation at a time. That is nothing unusual.

 

[Marionnette]

You can sell 100 hotel rooms for $1 and make $100 or sell 50 rooms for $2 and make the same $100 back. 50% decrease in occupancy, but same revenue (plus some savings on operating costs). Discount the remaining inventory and sell a few more rooms at $1.50 and you come out ahead.

This would be true if the hotel rooms themselves were the only driving factor. 50 $2 rooms vs 100 $1 rooms means that 50 fewer families are buying souvenirs, eating at the restaurants or buying park tickets. I'm sure that there is a point of diminished returns where hotel discounts are concerned but Disney doesn't want heads in beds so much as they want feet on Main Street.

 

[celluloid]

You can sell 100 hotel rooms for $1 and make $100 or sell 50 rooms for $2 and make the same $100 back. 50% decrease in occupancy, but same revenue (plus some savings on operating costs). Discount the remaining inventory and sell a few more rooms at $1.50 and you come out ahead.

This is true if people were only spending their prebooked money on the hotel.

Theme park tickets, Drinks, food, merch and other ancillary opportunities to be forced to be fed within the shopping of your resort.

 

[Thepuma]

This is true if people were only spending their prebooked money on the hotel.

Theme park tickets, Drinks, food, merch and other ancillary opportunities to be forced to be fed within the shopping of your resort.

And I think this is the point. I don't particularly think the parks attendance is down..because the parks are the main reason for people coming. But I think because Disney has put prices up left right and centre, a lot of families can only afford to still come to Orlando if they save money elsewhere, which is staying off site.

If people really enjoy Disney parks then they will do whatever it takes to come. If that means giving up a resort hotel to stay offside instead but still do the parks, then that's the compromise needed.

 

[Thepuma]

It's very common for Europeans/Brits to take 2-4 weeks vacation at a time. That is nothing unusual.

We spoke to quite a lot of Americans in the parks and was amazed how many come for just a day or two..even those coming hundreds of miles.

Many couldn't quite believe we were doing 3 weeks ...we are crazy and quite hard-core park goers... but, contrary to what you may think (going by my constant rants on here), I do actually enjoy Orlando and its parks. Its just for me it's become harder and harder and more and more expensive to have the same fun we had 4 or 5 years ago.

I think the only reason we may return in future is when Epic Universe is open...and of course,if we are coming all that way we will still visit Disney Parks. By then who knows, we may be back to free FP+