Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[drizgirl]

As per my earlier post...The parks are BUSY, I've been here 3 weeks and Disney and Universal are packed..very very busy.

Disney are reducing prices to get thousands more into the busy parks, so the lines get even longer and voila, they sell more G+ and LL+.

It's a clever move and one which will be highly profitable. They know that if they can increase that stand by queue from 90 minutes to 120 minutes, it will be a breaking point for some, pushing them into buying G+ and LL+.

What I do think is lower in sales is the Resprt rooms. People have been financially pushed to the brink at the Parks and so people are deciding to still go to Disney but stay off property.

When attendance falls, Disney does things like reduce CM hours. They run attractions at lower capacity with fewer cars. They reduce the windows open at CS restaurants.

We look at short lines and think isn't that great. They look at short lines and see it as a waste of money. As such, it's very difficult to quantify crowds by how things feel on the ground.

You also have no idea what crowds are in all 4 parks at a time.

 

[drizgirl]

Who said that (with glitter on their nose in 2017 buying the dining plan)?

You must be new here.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

'Feels busy' is definitely quantifiable.

If you go regularly..as in, you've been over 100 times...you get a feel for the parks and what is busy and what is not.

You can't just ignore a regular because a regular knows what a quiet day and a busy day feels like..through experience. They've been through every sort of day at these parks and they will know within an hour of being in the park how that day will pan out with queues.

I totally agree…

Which is why I trust those types that have said their instincts (let alone the cms on the ground that have corroborated around here…) have said it’s really down over the last 6 months. Including my own.

They also admitted a drop - quietly - in their Q announcement. That is not done lightly.

One thing I wonder - since it’s Brit season - is maybe that the last segment that is showing up now on Covid delay due to more restriction still in place last year? That’s possible.

But the bulk is always Mericans…and they Are down

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You must be new here.

…my first post.

Any advice for a newbie?

 

[Marionnette]

…my first post.

Any advise advice for a newbie?

IFIFY

"Your" welcome, newbie!

 

[Thepuma]

I totally agree…

Which is why I trust those types that have said their instincts (let alone the cms on the ground that have corroborated around here…) have said it’s really down over the last 6 months. Including my own.

They also admitted a drop - quietly - in their Q announcement. That is not done lightly.

One thing I wonder - since it’s Brit season - is maybe that the last segment that is showing up now on Covid delay due to more restriction still in place last year? That’s possible.

But the bulk is always Mericans…and they Are done

I think it was September 2021 that the restriction to enter USA from UK was lifted after covid(I was on one of the first flights out lol)

I think the only final other restriction after that was those who weren't vaccinated, which I think lifted more recently.

Maybe it's the anti vaxxers filling the parks lol

 

[Thepuma]

When attendance falls, Disney does things like reduce CM hours. They run attractions at lower capacity with fewer cars. They reduce the windows open at CS restaurants.

We look at short lines and think isn't that great. They look at short lines and see it as a waste of money. As such, it's very difficult to quantify crowds by how things feel on the ground.

You also have no idea what crowds are in all 4 parks at a time.

True, I can't be in all 4 parks at the same time.

But, I've always had a park hopper ticket and very very rarely on do 1 park in a day.

I tend to Rope drop say HS, then head to AK at 2pm, then finish off at either Epcot or MK. So while I can't be at all 4 parks at the same time I get a feel for almost all the parks each day.

Infact....we did all 4 parks in 1 day a number of times during our stay.

 

[Ayla]

When attendance falls, Disney does things like reduce CM hours. They run attractions at lower capacity with fewer cars. They reduce the windows open at CS restaurants.

We look at short lines and think isn't that great. They look at short lines and see it as a waste of money. As such, it's very difficult to quantify crowds by how things feel on the ground.

You also have no idea what crowds are in all 4 parks at a time.

Yep. But people sure fall for the "IT'S CROWDED!!!!!!!" mirage, don't they?

 

[Dranth]

There really isn't even a question that crowds are down. Disney said as much about WDW during the last earnings report and all their actions since indicate that is still the case. We even have people with inside information on bookings saying the same.

So, unless it recovered almost instantaneously over the past few weeks, it's down. Maybe not enough to feel like a ghost town but that doesn't mean there aren't less people showing up.

 

[Splash4eva]

People who are saying attendance is down are not going by wait times, which are easily manipulated. They are going by other quantifiable factors, such as the alarming rate room discounts are being offered, the local ticket offer announced today (which is a steal) and restaurant availability, just to name a few.

"Feels busy" is not a quantifiable metric.

What about people that are there that are telling me wait times are fairly accurate and parks are far from empty…. Are they lying as someone else accused them of?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

IFIFY

"Your" welcome, newbie!

…gonna be one of those days for Siri

 

[JusticeDisney]

Yep. But people sure fall for the "IT'S CROWDED!!!!!!!" mirage, don't they?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What about people that are there that are telling me wait times are fairly accurate and parks are far from empty…. Are they lying as someone else accused them of?

I don’t think so…

I think it’s probably a “fall bump”…
Which has been consistently spiking for 20 years.

It will show in their quarterlies. July and august were awful…we’ll see about it September stabilizes it some?

 

[Thepuma]

There really isn't even a question that crowds are down. Disney said as much about WDW during the last earnings report and all their actions since indicate that is still the case. We even have people with inside information on bookings saying the same.

So, unless it recovered almost instantaneously over the past few weeks, it's down. Maybe not enough to feel like a ghost town but that doesn't mean there aren't less people showing up.

You may be mistaking Disney hotel bookings being down with the parks being quieter.

I have no doubt Disney Hotel bookings are down...for many, the only way some can still afford to come is if they stay off property.

These people are still packing the parks out though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You may be mistaking Disney hotel bookings being down with the parks being quieter.

I have no doubt Disney Hotel bookings are down...for many, the only way some can still afford to come is if they stay off property.

These people are still packing the parks out though.

Hotel bookings have been a pretty accurate indicator of crowd levels since 1990…

If there is a disconnect…that’s a new topic to explore as well.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You need to argue with a few more complete strangers. Ya know, try to bump that low self esteem of yours a little higher.

I’ll charge you $75 an hour (half rate) to talk it all out. There’s “light” at the end of this tunnel…we’ll get through it.

 

[Dranth]

What about people that are there that are telling me wait times are fairly accurate and parks are far from empty…. Are they lying as someone else accused them of?

A 4-crowd day and a 10-crowd day can both have a 2 hour wait for a ride and be correct in both cases. Just depends on crowd flow and ride utilization.

The problem is someone trying to use wait times as a measure of overall crowd because waits can be impacted by so many factors that aren't crowd related. So, I wouldn't say someone was necessarily lying. It could very well "feel" crowded but given everything else we know about the current situation it likely isn't as full of people as previous years.

 

[Marionnette]

What about people that are there that are telling me wait times are fairly accurate and parks are far from empty…. Are they lying as someone else accused them of?

I'm sure that people are correct in their assessment of posted wait times vs actual wait times. During periods of lighter attendance, Disney will manipulate attraction through put in order to keep those wait times within a predetermined range. So for example, instead of sending a boatload of guests into PotC every 3 minutes, they might send one every 4 minutes (purely fictional numbers for the purpose of explanation). They may close one track on Space or run fewer ride vehicles thru RotR.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think it was September 2021 that the restriction to enter USA from UK was lifted after covid(I was on one of the first flights out lol)

I think the only final other restriction after that was those who weren't vaccinated, which I think lifted more recently.

Maybe it's the anti vaxxers filling the parks lol

What I meant was perhaps the lag/delay for international travel to Orlando may have pushed some people farther into the future than domestically?

 

[Thepuma]

I'm sure that people are correct in their assessment of posted wait times vs actual wait times. During periods of lighter attendance, Disney will manipulate attraction through put in order to keep those wait times within a predetermined range. So for example, instead of sending a boatload of guests into PotC every 3 minutes, they might send one every 4 minutes (purely fictional numbers for the purpose of explanation). They may close one track on Space or run fewer ride vehicles thru RotR.

Yep, I've definitely experienced this during the last 3 weeks.

Disney has purposely delayed the start of some of their big attractions to manipulate people to other rides to get those wait times up and therefore more people buying Genie+ and they don't want to wait.

I noticed this multiple times:

Epcot: Frozen on two occasions
Test Track on another

HS : Rise OTR - on 3 occasions
ToT - once
RnRC - once
MnMRR- once

AK - Everest Once

MK - 7D once
Pirates once
Peter Pan once

It seemed a massively reoccurring theme on this trip compared to any other..the delayed opening of attractions.