Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Ayla]

There are 1000 people who don't know what "poor" means?

I'm pretty sure the top 10% of earners can afford to go to WDW.

Yep. Try a young married couple with a newborn making $14,000 a year. That's "poor."

I also grew up poor. $175k a year ain't it.

 

[SamusAranX]

Another hurdle that Disney, a company that markets to small children is facing. Declining US birth rates.

US births are down again, after the COVID baby bust and rebound | Brookings

After a late-pandemic rebound in birth rates, the number of babies born each month remains well below pre-pandemic levels according to analysis of new CDC data by Melissa Kearney and Phil Levine.

www.brookings.edu

***adds this to the list***

 

[JoeCamel]

Unless you live in a major metro area, you're doing just fine on $175k a year.

Not if you are supporting two McMansions a lake house/boat and a DVC contract. They feel poor

 

[seascape]

Another hurdle that Disney, a company that markets to small children is facing. Declining US birth rates.

US births are down again, after the COVID baby bust and rebound | Brookings

After a late-pandemic rebound in birth rates, the number of babies born each month remains well below pre-pandemic levels according to analysis of new CDC data by Melissa Kearney and Phil Levine.

www.brookings.edu

The declining birthrate is a bigger problem for parks based on thrill rides. Older adults are less likely to ride rollercoasters. As the population ages parks with more shows and rides that are calm will do better than thrill parks. AK with the Safari and 2 animal walking trails along with the paths and animals around the tree of life is perfect for people of all ages. So is Epcot with all its festivals and easy going rides. Building rides designed for teens and young adults goes against the demographics the world faces. Remember this, families are averaging less than 2 children per couple and that 1 child is the most popular number of children today. Yes, there are still families with more but the people with money that Disney and Universal want have 1 or 2 and thats it. The rides destination parks and resorts need are rides that people from 2 to 85 can enjoy and that is not fast multiple looping roller coasters but fantastic dark rides lufe RoHR, HM, PoTC and others.

 

[seascape]

Not if you are supporting two McMansions a lake house/boat and a DVC contract. They feel poor

That is just stupid. Most people own one home and if they are smart would buy a timeshare on Ebay for almost nothing. While I do own several DVC contracts and enough points for 3 to 4 visits a year I would never spend what resale prices are today or even worse what Disney charges. You can still buy Wyndham points cheap and stay in a 2 bedroom villa for less than most hotel rooms offsite. And anyone making twice the national average for family income is not poor and $175,000 is well over twice the national average.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Cruising with our family is world class service given to us by the hard working crew. The crew so of whom we got to know work 12-13 hours a day 7 days a week months at a time before their contract ends. If some of them can transfer to WDW then surely guest service will be vastly improved and perhaps so can attendance.

One of the most carefree vacations that I have taken recently was sailing out of Bayonne, NJ on the Celebrity Summit. As you mention, the service was outstanding and I had an amazing time. Marie

 

[DisneyCane]

Yep. Try a young married couple with a newborn making $14,000 a year. That's "poor."

I also grew up poor. $175k a year ain't it.

Agree but $175k a year is worth a lot less than it was when I grew up (in the 80s). When I was 10 in 1985 it's the equivalent of somebody who made $61,600. Somebody making $175k a year won't be living paycheck to paycheck but, especially in high cost metro areas, they aren't living worry free without a budget either.

 

[Epcot81Fan]

One of the most carefree vacations that I have taken recently was sailing out of Bayonne, NJ on the Celebrity Summit. As you mention, the service was outstanding and I had an amazing time. Marie

More importantly, you got to leave New Jersey.

 

[John park hopper]

Married a NJ girl took her to SC she was so glad I rescued her from NJ (HA HA )

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is just stupid. Most people own one home and if they are smart would buy a timeshare on Ebay for almost nothing. While I do own several DVC contracts and enough points for 3 to 4 visits a year I would never spend what resale prices are today or even worse what Disney charges. You can still buy Wyndham points cheap and stay in a 2 bedroom villa for less than most hotel rooms offsite. And anyone making twice the national average for family income is not poor and $175,000 is well over twice the national average.

I think the point is the perception is thrown off right now.

That is real. People forget the details of the plague: lower paid jobs jumped a lot in wages…not middle class and up. Everyone had to “hunker down” if you were in the predominate post industrial roles.
And they gave out $10,000 dollars in spreading around cash…if you made less to receive it. The middle half didn’t get as much love.

But what they did get was rampant inflation…which continues to happen each day. It’s price gouging with excuses. And corps won’t stop…ahem…If they don’t have to and the public sector and media explains It away.

Another thing lost? The 2017 tax code is an out and out assault on the upper middle and lower upper brackets…that’s what the numbers show.

So put that all in the blender…and it’s very possible $175,000 hesitates on Bobs swamp prices…even if it seems “abnormal”

The dip in Disney park attendance in “good times” is deliberate…something big is going on (ask around if you have people to ask)…not a “quirk” here.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One of the most carefree vacations that I have taken recently was sailing out of Bayonne, NJ on the Celebrity Summit. As you mention, the service was outstanding and I had an amazing time. Marie

I actually love Bayonne. Easy as pie for me. Prices are a little high right now

But RCCL or Celebrity out of there…loop past the statue and lower manhattan and then under the Verrazano so close you can almost touch it?

It’s a pretty cool circuit

 

[wannabeBelle]

I know, Right?? I live like 20 minutes from Cape Liberty in Staten Island, so it was a very easy Uber to the port. No flights, no waiting around, easy peasy!!

 

[wannabeBelle]

 

[Bullseye1967]

I know, Right?? I live like 20 minutes from Cape Liberty in Staten Island, so it was a very easy Uber to the port. No flights, no waiting around, easy peasy!!View attachment 739285

Really tough to argue with that.

 

[seabreezept813]

I think the point is the perception is thrown off right now.

That is real. People forget the details of the plague: lower paid jobs jumped a lot in wages…not middle class and up. Everyone had to “hunker down” if you were in the predominate post industrial roles.
And they gave out $10,000 dollars in spreading around cash…if you made less to receive it. The middle half didn’t get as much love.

But what they did get was rampant inflation…which continues to happen each day. It’s price gouging with excuses. And corps won’t stop…ahem…If they don’t have to and the public sector and media explains It away.

Another thing lost? The 2017 tax code is an out and out assault on the upper middle and lower upper brackets…that’s what the numbers show.

So put that all in the blender…and it’s very possible $175,000 hesitates on Bobs swamp prices…even if it seems “abnormal”

The dip in Disney park attendance in “good times” is deliberate…something big is going on (ask around if you have people to ask)…not a “quirk” here.

I think this is a little more accurate. Yes 175k is not poor. But a mortgage in area with high cost of living, increasing utilities, loans people still have, one or two kids in daycare (second mortgage payment), etc. It’s possible people in that bracket still struggle to pay for expensive vacations. Obviously vacations are not a need, but it’s relevant to the topic that even with those salaries, regular Disney trips might be a no go.

 

[Nubs70]

I think this is a little more accurate. Yes 175k is not poor. But a mortgage in area with high cost of living, increasing utilities, loans people still have, one or two kids in daycare (second mortgage payment), etc. It’s possible people in that bracket still struggle to pay for expensive vacations. Obviously vacations are not a need, but it’s relevant to the topic that even with those salaries, regular Disney trips might be a no go.

I have heard inflation has increased the yearly cost of living by about $8500 for the mythical family of four (are they from Denver? I do not know).

If you were dropping 10k on a trip to the world, inflation leaves you with $1500.

 

[the_rich]

I have DVC and buy annual passes, so the current costs aren’t in my wheelhouse. My buddy, an orthopedic surgeon with an anesthesiologist for a wife told me this. He likes Grand Floridian because that is where his father took him as a kid. So he wants to take his two boys there for a week. With four airline tix (not first class), 7 nights in Grand Floridian , 2 rooms, and 6 park hopper passes per person, add the genie and genie plus daily purchases per person, he was somewhere near to $20,000. And he is like, “who the h*** is gonna blow $20,000 on a week in an amusement park“? Is he right? Is it really that expensive? The question isn’t who can afford it, but who would spend it. If they do, who would do it more than once?

I dont know how he got to $20,000 unless he got a suite. I'm all in for about $4300 for 2 people at GF including food. Add a few more days and I'd be at like $6200. Even if you double it for 4 people, even though the room cost wouldn't double, it would be around $12,500. He must have gotten a much more expensive room

 

[Lilofan]

I think this is a little more accurate. Yes 175k is not poor. But a mortgage in area with high cost of living, increasing utilities, loans people still have, one or two kids in daycare (second mortgage payment), etc. It’s possible people in that bracket still struggle to pay for expensive vacations. Obviously vacations are not a need, but it’s relevant to the topic that even with those salaries, regular Disney trips might be a no go.

Struggle? Some in my area just don't care. Take out bank loans to go on vacation and or make min payments monthly on the credit cards.

 

[Lilofan]

Married a NJ girl took her to SC she was so glad I rescued her from NJ (HA HA )

I'm sure she missed the real bagels, chinese food , diners, pizza from NJ/NY. You can take a girl away from New Jersey but you can't take New Jersey out of the girl.

 

[Marionnette]

Struggle? Some in my area just don't care. Take out bank loans to go on vacation and or make min payments monthly on the credit cards.

The problem is that those same people who put luxuries on their credit cards are now maxing them out on necessities. There's no room on the Mastercard for an expensive Disney vacation when you need the available credit for food and gasoline.