Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

hopemax

Well-Known Member
How we got to the characterization of Epcot as a half-day park tells you a great deal of what you need to know. When I was "tourist Disney" and not "rumors, news and analytics" Disney person, Epcot was a *two* day park. You could either do FW and WS on different days. Or you could do Attractions on one day and entertainment / experiences like eating and drinking on the other. But it was definitely recommended by everyone as a two day park.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
They’ve always inflated wait times to a degree. That wasn’t the statement in question. it’s that they do it now to sell genie… and the data analysis concluded it’s no real difference now verse what was done before genie was a thing.

So if someone is trying to make make changes to make genie more attractive… they suck at it.
Took me a while but I get it now. The posted wait times before and after G+ had the same inaccuracy.

Removing my tin foil hat now. Wait times are just as inaccurate now as they were before G+.

The good news is, we can happily ignore the posted wait times :)
 

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
They go there for eating, an occasional adult beverage, and sometimes even seasonal entertainment.
Many of the locals that I know go there for entertainment, and add in adult beverages and dining. If the entertainment is being reduced or isnt something they like, their visits naturally become less. That has happened due to the changes in some specific entertainment acts at a few venues within the property that I am aware of. This is certainly only my own observations with people I know but it may not be limited to those folks. Marie
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
They go there for eating, an occasional adult beverage, and sometimes even seasonal entertainment.

Yes, people do that just not with a two day Animal Kingdom and EPCOT ticket.
This is marketed to those in FL who want to do a long weekend or week in Orlando and Disney wants them to visit their parks, not share the time.

The day drink and diners don't really go for less than a weekend getaway to AK and EPCOT paying the price of a third and fourth day admission. Those would be APers and locals can say drink and dine in property without admission.

This offer is definitely more towards the incentive for those who are not sure if these parks should be checked out as well.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
The offer targeted to Florida Residents only. They aren't targeting travelers/out of towners visiting the park.

Its a 2 day offer only and good for a split stay. They aren't targeting people who are looking to book 4+ day trips.

Its also only good starting today and going until the end of September. This ISN"T about capturing people looking to plan week+ long trinps.

This period is also right when kids start going back to school. So your eliminating most of your school age family members from this offer.

This has nothing to do with loosing guests to other parks, losing days 3 and 4, or any other type of long term strategic marketing campaign. This is a quick hit lets get some locals in drinking while the kids are going back to school

Florida is a long state.

Yes, it always has to do with guests spending time outside of these parks.
This is precisely to capture the people who are going to drive three hours plus up to spend some time in Orlando, but look, we can check out the two parks of Disney for this price after we do what we want at Sea World or Disney.


The weekenders. People go to Orlando without going to Disney property at all more than ever. This nabs some of their time.

September is always a slow shoulder season, hence events, but EPCOT's new attractions and events should have them not needing this and AK has. AK has. Or anything new since Avatar. There is a reason these two parks were picked.

It's exactly to nab some time for those visiting the other things in Orlando.
 
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JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
I get it was “hotter” but you are going in to Orlando in July. What do you expect it to be. I went last summer for 1st time in God knows how long during that time. It was hot. Really hot but it was expected and temps being a little warmer shouldnt make people who are vacationing there change their plans completely imo.
I will admit it amazes me how many people it seems post here about WDW, and don't seem to have kids, or if they do, they certainly don't seem to post like they do.

Sure Florida is hot. It was hot when we were there last 4th of July, and hell, it, was hot when we were there for Halloween 2 October's ago. But as almost every parent i know will tell you, people with kids change their plans all the time. Someone has a stomach ache on a certain morning. We were out late the night before and kids missed naps or couldn't fall asleep....because they are so excited about being at Disney. Or yes, because even thought everyone knew it was going to be hot in July, come noon time the heat is just too much and the kids are melting down, both figuratively and literally and mom and dad could use a frozen blueberry lemonade vodka back at the swan and dolphin, as opposed to a couple more hours at the park. I mean do people really just pack up their 5 year olds and drag them along through the park until close because "you knew it was going to be hot in the summer?"
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Florida is a long state.

Yes, it always has to do with guests spending time outside of these parks.
This is precisely to capture the people who are going to drive three hours plus up to spend some time in Orlando, but look, we can check out the two parks of Disney for this price after we do what we want at Sea World or Disney.


The weekenders. People go to Orlando without going to Disney property at all more than ever. This nabs some of their time.

September is always a slow shoulder season, hence events, but EPCOT's new attractions and events should have them not needing this and AK has. AK has. Or anything new since Avatar. There is a reason these two parks were picked.

It's exactly to nab some time for those visiting the other things in Orlando.
None of that is what this offer is about.

its not about trying to nab time from people who are already planning to come to Orlando. The window for the offer is too narrow, and the lead time announcing the deal was too short. Anyone who is coming down to Orlando for long trip anytime in August or September already has their vacation planned. This isn't about trying to wedge into the plans of someone already going to Orlando. If that was part of this type of tactical planning, you would have announced this way earlier, or schedule the window out far in advance. IF they offer this type of deal based around when the new Universal park opens, then I can see that being part of the strategy, but not with no warning and for only 60 days.

It's not about what has been built in the parks recently. You can have 2-3new rides opening up this year, or none, school is still starting back in August. The vast vast majority of parents are not having kids miss time during the first weeks of school to go on vacation. It will always be slow time for the parks, and can always use something to boost attendance for a limited time. This is about getting an influx of local spur of the moment type guest. This is getting a bunch of D I N K S to go and get hammered in the park. Its about maybe getting some spry retirees down in Florida to come out an enjoy the parks and not have to deal with all the noisy kids running around.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I will admit it amazes me how many people it seems post here about WDW, and don't seem to have kids, or if they do, they certainly don't seem to post like they do.

Sure Florida is hot. It was hot when we were there last 4th of July, and hell, it, was hot when we were there for Halloween 2 October's ago. But as almost every parent i know will tell you, people with kids change their plans all the time. Someone has a stomach ache on a certain morning. We were out late the night before and kids missed naps or couldn't fall asleep....because they are so excited about being at Disney. Or yes, because even thought everyone knew it was going to be hot in July, come noon time the heat is just too much and the kids are melting down, both figuratively and literally and mom and dad could use a frozen blueberry lemonade vodka back at the swan and dolphin, as opposed to a couple more hours at the park. I mean do people really just pack up their 5 year olds and drag them along through the park until close because "you knew it was going to be hot in the summer?"
We do all the time. We have a stroller for her to nap in. We go in places that have A/C for breaks.
We make it work all the time. This Friday we will have my 3 year old with us when we go to Cedar Point. We are going from 10am to 11pm. If she has a melt down we take a break at a restaurant for a bit.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
I will admit it amazes me how many people it seems post here about WDW, and don't seem to have kids, or if they do, they certainly don't seem to post like they do.

Sure Florida is hot. It was hot when we were there last 4th of July, and hell, it, was hot when we were there for Halloween 2 October's ago. But as almost every parent i know will tell you, people with kids change their plans all the time. Someone has a stomach ache on a certain morning. We were out late the night before and kids missed naps or couldn't fall asleep....because they are so excited about being at Disney. Or yes, because even thought everyone knew it was going to be hot in July, come noon time the heat is just too much and the kids are melting down, both figuratively and literally and mom and dad could use a frozen blueberry lemonade vodka back at the swan and dolphin, as opposed to a couple more hours at the park. I mean do people really just pack up their 5 year olds and drag them along through the park until close because "you knew it was going to be hot in the summer?"
BUT, that would imply that A.)The resorts were pretty full (they were not at ALL), and B.) that you made the decision to simply not use tickets. I get what you are saying, and I was there during that week, and it was crazy hot. So what we did was exactly what you are saying. We maybe went for a bit in the morning (depending on how the kids felt), and then headed back once it cooled down a bit in the late afternoon. But here's the thing, that also means we used our tickets and were a part of some ques in the morning (maybe) and at night.
 

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
I will admit it amazes me how many people it seems post here about WDW, and don't seem to have kids, or if they do, they certainly don't seem to post like they do.

Sure Florida is hot. It was hot when we were there last 4th of July, and hell, it, was hot when we were there for Halloween 2 October's ago. But as almost every parent i know will tell you, people with kids change their plans all the time. Someone has a stomach ache on a certain morning. We were out late the night before and kids missed naps or couldn't fall asleep....because they are so excited about being at Disney. Or yes, because even thought everyone knew it was going to be hot in July, come noon time the heat is just too much and the kids are melting down, both figuratively and literally and mom and dad could use a frozen blueberry lemonade vodka back at the swan and dolphin, as opposed to a couple more hours at the park. I mean do people really just pack up their 5 year olds and drag them along through the park until close because "you knew it was going to be hot in the summer?"
I am a parent. A Father of a 9 y/o daughter who is far from a fan of the heat trust me. We just came back from Florida during the last heat wave and NOT once did myself not her think about changing/cancelling anything we had planned. Those are facts. Nor has anyone i know who have been away. Again thats me and other people i know. Im far fromspeaking for everyone. So you can assume away all you want.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
BUT, that would imply that A.)The resorts were pretty full (they were not at ALL), and B.) that you made the decision to simply not use tickets. I get what you are saying, and I was there during that week, and it was crazy hot. So what we did was exactly what you are saying. We maybe went for a bit in the morning (depending on how the kids felt), and then headed back once it cooled down a bit in the late afternoon. But here's the thing, that also means we used our tickets and were a part of some ques in the morning (maybe) and at night.
Not sure what you mean. I am just stating that there are tons of factors that cause people to change their minds, including the heat. I have plenty of days where the heat drove us out of the park earlier in the day than we planned for. And while like you alot of time we went back late afternoon, we have had days where the kids are having a great time at the pool, and the parents are 5-6 drinks in, and we were perfectly happy to skip going back to the park. Do i know anyone that has completely cancelled a trip because of the heat, no, well with the caveat that i know a few that given the BS with flights we have been having in NYC area that pushed trips that were scheduled for the HS black out period in August to Jersey week in the fall. But that doesn't mean that the heat helped keep the parks less crowded this summer.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Not sure what you mean. I am just stating that there are tons of factors that cause people to change their minds, including the heat. I have plenty of days where the heat drove us out of the park earlier in the day than we planned for. And while like you alot of time we went back late afternoon, we have had days where the kids are having a great time at the pool, and the parents are 5-6 drinks in, and we were perfectly happy to skip going back to the park. Do i know anyone that has completely cancelled a trip because of the heat, no, well with the caveat that i know a few that given the BS with flights we have been having in NYC area that pushed trips that were scheduled for the HS black out period in August to Jersey week in the fall. But that doesn't mean that the heat helped keep the parks less crowded this summer.
Right, but the entire origin of this (at least I thought it was) was the idea that people did not show up at all due to the heat. Basically said oh well to their tickets they'd already bought and just hung out at the hotels. And your example and mine both are not people who did not use them at all, they are people who altered their time at the parks. And just diving more into the week this is all about (the Iger comments, etc.), the hotels were nowhere near full that week, so it's I don't buy a lot of people were doing that at this time (not sure you were arguing that point, but just putting it out there).
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Right, but the entire origin of this (at least I thought it was) was the idea that people did not show up at all due to the heat. Basically said oh well to their tickets they'd already bought and just hung out at the hotels. And your example and mine both are not people who did not use them at all, they are people who altered their time at the parks. And just diving more into the week this is all about (the Iger comments, etc.), the hotels were nowhere near full that week, so it's I don't buy a lot of people were doing that at this time (not sure you were arguing that point, but just putting it out there).
Ah. I had thought this all started about why the parks might feel emptier this summer, and why people would not be at the parks due to the weather. I mean unless you're working for WDW, no one here has access to information about how many tickets weren't used per day. I thought this was more about the parks feeling empty, I was suggesting people leaving mid morning and not coming back due to the heat, can be a contributing factor to that.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
but HS is one of the two half day parks.
I guess it’s a POV thing but to me HS, when operating every ride, is almost a full day park. We (out of town friend and I) were able to spend a full day and not feel like we repeated attractions over and over recently.

EPCOT felt different. Unless you’re stopping at every showcase store and doing the “theater” attractions at Canada, it’s really not enough for a full day from 9am - 9 pm
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think it comes down to perception. I'm not sure people cared as much when fastpass didn't have a cost. Now when people go through a line that says 75min and it only takes 45/50min. It starts to make you wonder, since you are being constantly reminded of Genie plus. One time, you say awesome, that was great. But after your 3rd ride of significant difference, people start thinking they're being played.

It's not perception -- It's bias and attitude. When people are already wound up about being gouged and changes in posture towards charging for things... people are going to be cynical about those things and towards the business. Basically on edge and ready to jump to conclusions because a trust has been destroyed.

I see what you are saying. The inflated wait times for standby were there before genie so it's not them doing it "to get more sales". And that might be true. But the reality is Disney is ok with it because it will lead to genie plus sales. And before that they would hope people would avoid the line and eat or shop
Sorry, no. You're taking things that align with an outcome and then concluding and asserting that it was MOTIVE -- concluding what someone's DESIRES and INTENTS are based only on circumstance. That's not sound logic nor fair to the person you are making assumptions about.

"Happy coincidence" is not the same as "choices we made with intent".

The primary motivations to keep wait times conservative haven't changed - Customer Satisfaction and managing expectations.

No one is sad when a wait turns out to be less than expected. Most are mad and unforgiving when waits are LONGER than expected. This hasn't changed. It minimizes escalations and usually incites happiness in guests when they get a pleasant surprise.

And "wait times are conservative" is not the same as "wait times are inflated". Touringplan's evaluation found that in general the wait times were pretty consistent in their percentage of accuracy... within 20% if I recall.. I need to search for the post for the number.. maybe @lentesta will bail me out :)

Plus, people will tend to remember the extremes, and not give credit for all the examples that were within reason.

If you wanna say "guests perceive wait times are overly inflated..." - that's fine to say. If you start saying "people believe disney is inflating wait times to pump genie+ sales" -- that is not perception. That is a thought someone has had based on experiences and other predisposed beliefs. Because Disney isn't doing anything to really suggest that... it's just people being cynical about being charged for genie.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Florida is a long state.

Yes, it always has to do with guests spending time outside of these parks.
This is precisely to capture the people who are going to drive three hours plus up to spend some time in Orlando, but look, we can check out the two parks of Disney for this price after we do what we want at Sea World or Disney.


The weekenders. People go to Orlando without going to Disney property at all more than ever. This nabs some of their time.

September is always a slow shoulder season, hence events, but EPCOT's new attractions and events should have them not needing this and AK has. AK has. Or anything new since Avatar. There is a reason these two parks were picked.

It's exactly to nab some time for those visiting the other things in Orlando.
My FB friends in Brazil have been there done that with WDW and UO . They go several times a year to Orlando to buy in bulk at the Premium outlets and FL Mall. They then resell the products to many willing buyers in their home country.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
It's not perception -- It's bias and attitude. When people are already wound up about being gouged and changes in posture towards charging for things... people are going to be cynical about those things and towards the business. Basically on edge and ready to jump to conclusions because a trust has been destroyed.
Yes, but because the prices for everything are so high, then the perception is that wait times are being inflated to gouge them even further. You could call it bias I guess. I say perception because people didn't care all that much before. But now there's money involved so people now have a different perception as to why.
Sorry, no. You're taking things that align with an outcome and then concluding and asserting that it was MOTIVE -- concluding what someone's DESIRES and INTENTS are based only on circumstance. That's not sound logic nor fair to the person you are making assumptions about.
Why no? Sure I'm assuming when I say they're ok with it. But if they weren't ok with the wait times being off, they'd fix it. If customer service is in fact the number one priority, then you want to give people the most accurate times to make an educated decision if genie plus is right for them. In your heart of hearts can you say that you trust that Disney isn't making the times more accurate because they know it's helping sell G+?
No one is sad when a wait turns out to be less than expected. Most are mad and unforgiving when waits are LONGER than expected. This hasn't changed.
Agreed. That's why I said when it happens once, hey great that's awesome. But every time, that's red flags for people.
If you wanna say "guests perceive wait times are overly inflated..." - that's fine to say. If you start saying "people believe disney is inflating wait times to pump genie+ sales" -- that is not perception.
But I didn't say believe. What I believe is the average guests perception is that the wait times are inflated to sell G+.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I guess it’s a POV thing but to me HS, when operating every ride, is almost a full day park. We (out of town friend and I) were able to spend a full day and not feel like we repeated attractions over and over recently.

EPCOT felt different. Unless you’re stopping at every showcase store and doing the “theater” attractions at Canada, it’s really not enough for a full day from 9am - 9 pm

It's always going to be relative/subjective to an extent -- DHS has more rides than DAK and more headliners than EPCOT but it has almost nothing to do outside of those rides. If you're not interested in riding everything (e.g., I personally wouldn't be willing to wait more than 10-15 minutes to ride most of what exists at DHS because I don't think they're very good), there's just not much there. DAK and EPCOT both have numerous things to do other than rides (although EPCOT offers far less of this than it used to in its heyday).
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Yes, but because the prices for everything are so high, then the perception is that wait times are being inflated to gouge them even further.

You're not supporting that point - just making an assertion and veiling it with 'opinion' or 'perception' to avoid having to be accurate.

Why no? Sure I'm assuming when I say they're ok with it. But if they weren't ok with the wait times being off, they'd fix it. If customer service is in fact the number one priority, then you want to give people the most accurate times to make an educated decision if genie plus is right for them

Because it's not possible to give everyone an always accurate time - instead you err to caution to avoid causing customer dissatisfaction. You're basically saying "well why don't they..." -- because you can't given the environment they are in today. You do not get a personal calculation based on every counted person in front of you and individual rider counts and cycles. You get a estimate. That estimate is made in good faith, but is not binding. But fail to manage expectations -- which is what the wait time really is about -- and customers will be angry.
In your heart of hearts can you say that you trust that Disney isn't making the times more accurate because they know it's helping sell G+?

Yes, because you can look at the factors that would be necessary to really get to 'the most accurate times' it's a game of diminishing returns, and again risks setting false expectations... and getting a black eye for it. No one cares how hard you tried, if you failed them. They will only remember you failed them.

But I didn't say believe. What I believe is the average guests perception is that the wait times are inflated to sell G+.

If in your heard of hearts believed that - don't you think Disney would have to address the topic at some point? Instead, it's a conversation largely stuck in fan-forums.
 

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