Inside WDW new space mountain 11/10/09

[Innoventions]

I'm not an imagineer, but I could come up with some awesome concepts that would be easily implemented.

You sure about that?

 

[SMRT-1]

But I do realize this will largely get lost in the OUR SPACE MOUNTAIN IS BETTER THAN YOURS fight. And I have no desire to get involved in that.

You are getting involved when you mention how many SM's you have been on which you feel are better. I agree with you that there are better out there......however, which a lot of people are not getting....Florida was the first! It should remain as close to the original as possible.

 

[WDW1974]

Let me break this down for you in small, easy to understand points... Since I've made all these points in this same thread mutiple times already, yet you're still asking the questions:

1. After many many years of visiting WDW 2-3 times a year knowing every nook and cranny, and also visiting every Disney park in the world within the past two years thus being able to compare multiple incarnations of parks and rides all under the Disney name... I think I'm qualified to comment on WDW. It's been 2 years since I've been to WDW. Hardly long enough for me to forget anything, and very little has changed in that time (especially if you don't count closures).

I think this may work against you. I've long believed that many fans simply are jealous they don't get around as much as some of us are lucky enough to do. And that affects how they respond when we tell things like it is.

2. I've explained the "why do you give them your money" question. For your reading pleasure: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=3837649&postcount=279 Understand something here... I don't hate all of what they do in WDW. They do some things very well (Wishes, Illuminations, Hoop De Doo, World Showcase, etc). I've never spent a vacation walking around WDW miserable. I have a great time with my family.

Exactly! I'm a three hour and 15 minute drive or a 22 minute flight from Orlando. It's my home resort. I enjoy it. Mostly because I spend time with family and friends there (including some new ones on my next trip!) It is still a beautiful place. But a lot of the pixie dust is faded and covered in cobwebs. I don't pretend I don't see what's there.

It's like EPCOT. I'll love it next month, but am I supposed to not notice the Lights of WInter aren't there?

3. Love is not blind. You say "if you love a place, why do you complain about it". Because I want it to get better. I don't want to accept mediocraty. I don't want to have to fly half way around the world to see the best that Disney Parks has to offer. I WANT THAT AT THE RESORT CLOSEST TO ME. I don't want shuttered restaurants, closed clubs, diminished entertainment offerings and deteriorating attractions. I ESPECIALLY don't want all that while the prices continue to go up.

Why is this such a hard concept for some here to accept?

4. You have no idea what parks I talk about on what forums. And you don't know what I say about them. And honestly, if you actually read what I've posted here over the years, you'd see that I'm awfully level headed, and have plenty of nice things to say about Disney Parks.

These sites tend to thrive more on negativity. When I wrote a gushing fanboi report on my last visit to WDW, it died very quickly. When I posted some thoughts that were very positive on DL recently the same thing happened.

But take a shot at Phil Holmes and watch what happens!

Going by your theory, I should be happy with no Lights of Winter. No Mickey's Twas the Night Before Christmas show. No Country Bear Christmas. Because heck, they've got to have good reasons for not having those things, right?? And test track is right next door, so who cares about the Lights of Winter?? That's laughable. And those are just a FEW of the holiday offerings they've cut in the past couple years!!!


BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...

Oh, c'mon. Test Track is way kewl ... I really love the 'gum ramp' that says 'we may not be Six Flags, but at least here, we're trying!'

 

[Disney-Nautifan]

Disney-Nautifan

Space Mountain by far looks very impressive and wonderful, BUT....

the interactive queing area is SO ugly and arcade-like, it makes me throw up!! hoping that the star tunnel music is still there, and not to beeps and boops of a horrible video game arcade (YUK!!) where are those projections and stars in the queue?!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME!!!

a planter instead of a fountain!???!!!


any comments?.... (I am calm)

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRT-1
Like you saw these concepts!! Give me a break.....you are the biggest BS artist on here.

I didn't see them....but I surely heard about them.
Heard about them from people who were hoping to be involved in their implementation. 74 ain't BSing. Not at all.

Lee ... they're going to realize that we're playing all of them if you keep agreeing with me.

Tell them old 74 was high on 'shrooms when he thought he heard about REAL concepts for Space. What he really heard was about concepts for new princess-themed meet and greets.

 

[Lee]

Of course not. The "insiders" just like to point to eachother and say "well there were numerous accounts all over the board!" Really, Lee said it, then Martin agreed and WDW1974 agreed? Yay, it must be true!! :hammer:

Not sure I care for your tone, sir.

It is not my place to provide information here that was given to me in confidence, but I will say that at various points over the last 5 years, SM was in line for:
-New queue
-New load
-Entirely new postshow
-Onboard audio
-New visual effects and themeing in the Mountain
-New exterior lighting package
-Entirely new track and trains
-New themeing for the exterior that blended well with the front of TL.

At one point, SM was going to be the major advertising/marketing centerpiece for MK when it reopened after a 12-18 month closure. A grand "relaunching" ceremony, heavy advertising around "Space Mountain 2.0".....

Much of that was cut. Simple fact.
It doesn't make it a failed refurb in my eyes, just not the grand relaunching it almost got.

Florida was the first! It should remain as close to the original as possible.

No. No reason for that at all.

 

[WDW1974]

You are getting involved when you mention how many SM's you have been on which you feel are better. I agree with you that there are better out there......however, which a lot of people are not getting....Florida was the first! It should remain as close to the original as possible.

That's not a good argument.

So it was first.

Big deal.

Anything that's first shouldn't be changed? Does that mean DL too? Walt sure didn't agree as he bulldozed his entire first Tomorrowland and regularly took things out and added others.

Does that mean MK should be left alone entirely since it was the first WDW park? (Too late, as they've taken out so much and ruined so much already)

So, Space opened here first (even though as I'm sure you know it was first proposed for DL).

It's 2009. We shouldn't have a 1975 ride that really hasn't aged well.

Anyway, been fun, but the rain has stopped and I must run ... I wonder if they'll be 20 pages of more posts when I check back? (I'm guessing yes ...)

 

[EPCOTPluto]

Space Mountain by far looks very impressive and wonderful, BUT....

The interactive queuing area is SO ugly and arcade-like, it makes me throw up!! Well, it's on one side of the queue. You know, the standby line? And IMO, it tells me that they have not solved anything to speed up the line at all. I will still stick to the FP line. Oh, and while I will miss the pitch blackness of the zig zag tunnel & having to maneuver through blindly, the new sidelighting looks awesome!

Hoping that the star tunnel music is still there, and not to beeps and boops of a horrible video game arcade (YUK!!) I think the interactive games are in the Third Tunnel, and I fear this might disappear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRVnGiPACWE

Where are those projections and stars in the queue?!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME!!! I think Expo_Seeker may know more about them.

A planter instead of a fountain!???!!! I blame the budgeting of SM. I also wanted for it to be a fountain as well. I just call it a fountain of leaves. :lookaroun

... :wave:

 

[Dads 2 Boys]

For those of you who believe you know more than everyone else, please contact Disney and apply to become an Imagineer and stop telling everyone on here how smart you are.

Just because someone has been to WDW and every other Disney Park a million times doesn't make you any more an expert @ Disney than me going to 50-60 Yankees games every year qualifies me to be the Yankees manager.

Let's please stay on topic and try to show some perspective.

 

[WDWGoof07]

It has everything to do with it.

WDI had some amazing concepts for relaunching Space Mountain for a 21st century audience. Instead, it went with a concept for a WalMarted audience.

There's no substance to this 'redo' ... it's a very basic thing. I don't get excited by paint and signage and returning it to a darkened state (it's been so bright inside that you could practically read a book on the ride!)

Getting psyched over this is only slightly better than being excited by a new planter or new toilets.

It's all crap to me.

Yes, I know about those amazing concepts, and I'm disappointed that they we're not getting a full-scale revamp. I want to be very clear about that.

This a series of small enhancements that, frankly, make a good ride better. That's something I can be happy about. I think "getting psyched" is the wrong way to describe how most of us feel. That's certainly not how I feel, and I don't think anyone should be overly "psyched" as if this were a new ride or something. But I am pleased with the improvements that have been done. I guess I just don't understand how being pleased with this project makes you a "defender of mediocrity". :shrug:

I'll tell you what bothers me about this project. TDO resisted the full-fledged refurb because it would have meant that Space Mountain would have been closed through the Christmas busy season. I hate that they continually trot that out as an excuse. You can't please everyone!

 

[Innoventions]

It's 2009. We shouldn't have a 1975 ride that really hasn't aged well.

Thats what this refurb has done? Look at the queue before the refurb it desperately needed this. The queue looks great now. (as best as it could with the money given)
:brick:

Just going to have to see what the "ride" has to offer

 

[WDWGoof07]

Not sure I care for your tone, sir.

It is not my place to provide information here that was given to me in confidence, but I will say that at various points over the last 5 years, SM was in line for:
-New queue
-New load
-Entirely new postshow
-Onboard audio
-New visual effects and themeing in the Mountain
-New exterior lighting package
-Entirely new track and trains
-New themeing for the exterior that blended well with the front of TL.

At one point, SM was going to be the major advertising/marketing centerpiece for MK when it reopened after a 12-18 month closure. A grand "relaunching" ceremony, heavy advertising around "Space Mountain 2.0".....

Much of that was cut. Simple fact.
It doesn't make it a failed refurb in my eyes, just not the grand relaunching it almost got.

Exactly.

 

[SMRT-1]

That's not a good argument.

So it was first.

Big deal.

Anything that's first shouldn't be changed? Does that mean DL too? Walt sure didn't agree as he bulldozed his entire first Tomorrowland and regularly took things out and added others.

Does that mean MK should be left alone entirely since it was the first WDW park? (Too late, as they've taken out so much and ruined so much already)

So, Space opened here first (even though as I'm sure you know it was first proposed for DL).

It's 2009. We shouldn't have a 1975 ride that really hasn't aged well.

Anyway, been fun, but the rain has stopped and I must run ... I wonder if they'll be 20 pages of more posts when I check back? (I'm guessing yes ...)

There is nothing to argue with. It's the first...it's a classic....shouldn't be changed too much..What don't you get? If you don't care about rides and are really there for "dining" then why are you even involved in this thread?

I think I know the answer to that one...

 

[Lee]

There is nothing to argue with. It's the first...it's a classic....shouldn't be changed too much.

No, no...there's plenty to argue with there.
It's pure opinion and shouldn't be stated as fact.
What is fact, is that there is no rule anywhere that says the first version of a ride shouldn't be changed.
I would argue that the older a ride is, the more it is likely due for a plussing to make it the best it can be. No need to make it a museum piece, or label it an historic landmark that can't be touched.:shrug:

 

[PhilharMagician]

It's getting a little warm in here.:lookaroun

 

[HMF]

but HEY that's not keeping it classic :lol:

It's funny how when it's convenient Disney uses our own logic against us.

 

[marni1971]

Of course not. The "insiders" just like to point to eachother and say "well there were numerous accounts all over the board!" Really, Lee said it, then Martin agreed and WDW1974 agreed? Yay, it must be true!! :hammer:

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

 

[HMF]

It amuses me how excited everyone is getting over this modest refurb. I swear sometimes I feel the same way Cartman did in the "Elementary School Musical" episode from South Park: "Well, I'm out guys. If this is what's cool now, I think I'm done. I no longer have any connection to this world. I'm gonna go home and kill myself. Goodbye, friends."

Thank You for summing up what I have been thinking for the past few days.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Yes, I know about those amazing concepts, and I'm disappointed that they we're not getting a full-scale revamp. I want to be very clear about that.

This a series of small enhancements that, frankly, make a good ride better. That's something I can be happy about. I think "getting psyched" is the wrong way to describe how most of us feel. That's certainly not how I feel, and I don't think anyone should be overly "psyched" as if this were a new ride or something. But I am pleased with the improvements that have been done. I guess I just don't understand how being pleased with this project makes you a "defender of mediocrity". :shrug:

I'll tell you what bothers me about this project. TDO resisted the full-fledged refurb because it would have meant that Space Mountain would have been closed through the Christmas busy season. I hate that they continually trot that out as an excuse. You can't please everyone!

I, for one, think you have a perfectly logical viewpoint. And I don't fault you at all for it.

I guess I just went a little nuts with the folks that really went over the top drooling over what we've seen so far, when what we've seen has nothing at all to do with the ride experince at all (not including setting the mood). In the first 10 or so pages, there were a lot of people calling this refurb a complete success, and stating things like "here we thought the refurb was going to be bad", and things like that. That's the kind of apologist view that I think keeps TDO doing things the way they do.

I, like you, think they made a few nice ads. I also am not happy about what didn't happen. And I'm praying there's a new launch and re-entry tunnel involved with this whole thing, too. If there is, I can live with the refurb. If not, I'm going to be really disappointed. Not that anyone will probably care. :lol:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

PLEASE, Martin. We all know that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I cannot fathom how someone can read this post of yours, and run to WDW's SM doing cartwheels... Thanking TDO for the great job they've done.

Ugh.