Inside WDW new space mountain 11/10/09

[Exprcoofto]

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

Le sigh. We got some of that, but certainly not enough. Seeing that they did do some audio testing and strengthened supports, there could be a possibility of new ride cars with audio as some point and outside lighting effects could come later, but thats just being optimistic. Is there any hope left for a good refurb for JC?

 

[HMF]

Tell me if I'm getting this right because I think I know what you mean. WDI has learned not to listen to us because when they do what we want we don't look at the positives but for the negatives. So when they give us a SM refurb like they did are we going to be happy or not because we wanted new track, but if they did that then we might be upset about it or something.

Am I right?

Wrong WDI "wanted" a bigger refurb and TDO would not let them. Back in the old days WED used to tell Park Ops what to do. Now it's the other way around and that is why we end up with this situation.

 

[Innoventions]

Le sigh. We got some of that, but certainly not enough. Seeing that they did do some audio testing and strengthened supports, there could be a possibility of new ride cars with audio as some point and outside lighting effects could come later, but thats just being optimistic. Is there any hope left for a good refurb for JC?

How do you know exactly what we were getting:shrug: Did someone give you a shopping list?
So ill base what we got off of nothing and be happy with what we got

 

[Exprcoofto]

How do you know exactly what we were getting:shrug: Did someone give you a shopping list?
So ill base what we got off of nothing and be happy with what we got

I trust him as a reliable source, as he has been ever since I joined WDWMagic. Basing the refurb off of the idea of not knowing what it could've been, it's not bad, but there is always that spot in my mind thinking of what it could've been.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Saw these pictures from the 9th on MouseSteps, not sure if they were posted here.

The first set of pictures shows some animal (a robotic dog?) next to a new monitor, then the second set of pictures shows a space tent with two sleeping bags on the side. (that's why the new monitor says hover camping)

Looks interesting, but it's not too different from the old one, right?

Tomorrowland WAS about that, back then, before Epcot. The theme for Tomorrowland now is sci-fi, not the real future. A big part of sci-fi is the old nostalgia factor of it. The old crappy special effects of the movies, etc. I'd liken it to Star Wars. Its old and outdated as far as effects go, but people want it that way. Nobody likes that Lucas went back in and edited stuff in the film to bring it into the 21st century of special effects.

I think people need to make up their mind. I see the same people who want Epcot to go back to Epcot Center complaining about Space Mountain not being changed. Do you want the past or the future?

Right....and it still can be SciFi AND updated at the same time. A sleek Utopian future is still retro and could have been applied here.

I think they tried as hard as they could in the queue, which I must say, does look nice.

The SM work was described within the company as a "Tokyo-style refurb" back in early 2009. Tokyo kept the track and silence, but updated its queues and effects. That was all we could expect.

And it's lighting, right?


I think we got less than that, to be honest with you....Our Queue is nice, but Japan's is MUCH more grand. Has that ship floating over it and all..

You are getting involved when you mention how many SM's you have been on which you feel are better. I agree with you that there are better out there......however, which a lot of people are not getting....Florida was the first! It should remain as close to the original as possible.

Yes...and no. Yes, for it retaining it's feel and spirit, no for it being left obsolete and outdated. That could easily be fixed with some aesthetics and tech.

No, no...there's plenty to argue with there.
It's pure opinion and shouldn't be stated as fact.
What is fact, is that there is no rule anywhere that says the first version of a ride shouldn't be changed.
I would argue that the older a ride is, the more it is likely due for a plussing to make it the best it can be. No need to make it a museum piece, or label it an historic landmark that can't be touched.:shrug:

Exactly.

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

Sigh....


What could have been. And it's implications on the 40th were HUGE. Almost like DL's HCOE SM relaunch.

I estimate we are getting, what?, 40% of this?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Wrong WDI "wanted" a bigger refurb and TDO would not let them. Back in the old days WED used to tell Park Ops what to do. Now it's the other way around and that is why we end up with this situation.

I don't think anybody told anybody what to do back then. I just think they ALL wanted quality and a good product.:wave:

 

[marni1971]

The AA dog does look like the 1975 original, minus its rear shell. I can`t see them building a new AA for a rehash of the 1985 postshow.

New:

1994:

 

[magicmaya]

The AA dog does look like the 1975 original, minus its rear shell.

New:

1994:

I thought the new one was a toy horse. :lookaroun

I like the 1994 one better.

 

[imagineer boy]

Tomorrowland WAS about that, back then, before Epcot. The theme for Tomorrowland now is sci-fi, not the real future. A big part of sci-fi is the old nostalgia factor of it. The old crappy special effects of the movies, etc. I'd liken it to Star Wars. Its old and outdated as far as effects go, but people want it that way. Nobody likes that Lucas went back in and edited stuff in the film to bring it into the 21st century of special effects.

There's a huge difference between retro/timelessness and dated. SM pre refurb was very dated and stale. It needed an overhaul, pure and simple and it hasn't gotten it.

 

[sponono88]

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

interesting. this list really puts things in perspective - it's easy to understand why many are upset. personally I'm not an SM fan, at DL or WDW or anywhere in the world (coasters = not for me) so i'm not here to start a debate over which is better. It's just disappointing to see so many proposed additions/effects that got cut :shrug:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The AA dog does look like the 1975 original, minus its rear shell. I can`t see them building a new AA for a rehash of the 1985 postshow.

New:

1994:

So it's literally half of a AA with some wires sticking out?


How fitting for our SM.:brick:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

interesting. this list really puts things in perspective - it's easy to understand why many are upset. personally I'm not an SM fan, at DL or WDW or anywhere in the world (coasters = not for me) so i'm not here to start a debate over which is better. It's just disappointing to see so many proposed additions/effects that got cut :shrug:

The sad thing, really, is that this kind of cutting isn't limited to SM. It's a trend, and that's what's so troubling.

We should start placing bets now on if anything else gets cut from the FL overhaul. :lookaroun

 

[Jasonflz]

Saw these pictures from the 9th on MouseSteps, not sure if they were posted here.

The first set of pictures shows some animal (a robotic dog?) next to a new monitor, then the second set of pictures shows a space tent with two sleeping bags on the side. (that's why the new monitor says hover camping)

Is it just me or is that gray stuff unpainted material for some new rock-work?:lookaroun

 

[CaptainMichael]

The sad thing, really, is that this kind of cutting isn't limited to SM. It's a trend, and that's what's so troubling.

We should start placing bets now on if anything else gets cut from the FL overhaul. :lookaroun

I'll willing to say it will not be what everyone imagines when they compare the finished product to the overambitious concept art. Especially after guests start ruining it with trash, gum, and strollers everywhere.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The sad thing, really, is that this kind of cutting isn't limited to SM. It's a trend, and that's what's so troubling.

We should start placing bets now on if anything else gets cut from the FL overhaul. :lookaroun

THAT has been ordered by Glendale, so we might be safe.


Might.:lookaroun

 

[_Scar]

After reading Marni's post... now you know why some people feel a bit jipped.

Marni, can you confirm overlays? I'm guessing our mountain still will be Ghost-less, but it's worth asking.

 

[sponono88]

After reading Marni's post... now you know why some people feel a bit jipped.

Marni, can you confirm overlays? I'm guessing our mountain still will be Ghost-less, but it's worth asking.

I'm not Marni, but I wouldn't expect the holiday overlay :shrug: You would need the on-board audio as well as the projection screens/surface(?) along the track

 

[_Scar]

I'm not Marni, but I wouldn't expect the holiday overlay :shrug: You would need the on-board audio as well as the projection surfaces(?) along the track

Crap! Forgot about OA factor.

aww fish sticks!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I'll willing to say it will not be what everyone imagines when they compare the finished product to the overambitious concept art. Especially after guests start ruining it with trash, gum, and strollers everywhere.

I agree. Kind of like the Harry Potter concept art. It just ain't gonna be like that!

I'm not sure how you account for 100 degree Florida heat in a concept painting of a winter wonderland. :lookaroun :lol:

 

[blackthidot]

I cant wait! I hope its ready in December!