Well said, considering construction has barely started on the FLE.....
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In Defense of FLE
- Thread starter lebeau
- Start date
Well said, considering construction has barely started on the FLE.....
Figment632
New Member
Here is another thought on FLE. It is kind of upsetting that one of the most imersive and biggest E-tickets Disney ever built is being replaced by a D ticket omnimover :dazzle:
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I really admire you for organizing your points in this way and taking the time to do them, but the responses in this thread show why FLE probably doesn't need defending at least at this point.
What franchise is Dumbo a part of?
Does MK need booze to be a success?
Must all added MK capacity now have to exist completely in Fantasyland?
Interesting points. My main thought is anything done well in the theme park will have staying power regardless of how the franchise does in the real world. Song of the South is harldy a blip on the cultural radar anymore, but people race to Splash. I think the same will be true of Pixie Hollow. It has the potential to be really cool and immersive. If it is, then people will walk through it for years to come. It it's not, then it won't last long. I will say the meet and greet aspect is the one thing (moreso than rides and shows) that is affected by franchise popularity. We've run into Pocahontas several times in DAK and my kids go up to her because they feel sorry for her due to lack of attention being paid by other guests. However, I'd be happy if I got a really cool fantasy forest to explore. I'm really curious how this is going to play out.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Do you EVER look at the bright side of things?
At LEAST they are replacing it with SOMETHING!
And I would hardly give 20K those accolades. :shrug:
MAF
Well-Known Member
Do you EVER look at the bright side of things?
At LEAST they are replacing it with SOMETHING!
And I would hardly give 20K those accolades. :shrug:
Thanks. I had no idea what he was talking about :lol:. My friends and I used to call it 6 inches under the sea.
Enchantâmes
Active Member
Aww, is mister straight man afraid of some estrogen in the Magic Kingdom? :ROFLOL:
I love everything about this Expansion, and I think all those boys complaining are just selfish. Not everything can be about Cowboys and Indians. Princesses need love too, I can't wait to go see Belle, and Ariel, in 2 parks!
Neverland
Active Member
That E-ticket ride was replaced by a playground. :lookaroun The D-ticket will be replacing the playground.
loveofamouse
Well-Known Member
As a mom of both genders, I will say that boys love the princesses and fairies just as much as girls. The new tinkerbell movies get just the same play in my house and Toy Story(ok, that's an exaggeration but that's cause I have an Aspie that perseverates on TS1&2 lol). I definitely see OPs point on the rest of MK. It IS very boy oriented. I love TL, FRL, Pirates, etc just like everyone else but the princesses definitely could use their own corner of the fantasy park
For the posts on MK being kiddie:
Last I checked, the theme parks weren't just for adults. I love roller coasters just as much as anyone but it sure would be hell taking kids to parks full of rides they couldn't ride. They need to have SOMEWHERE they can go and see their favs, too.
For the posts on MK being kiddie:
Last I checked, the theme parks weren't just for adults. I love roller coasters just as much as anyone but it sure would be hell taking kids to parks full of rides they couldn't ride. They need to have SOMEWHERE they can go and see their favs, too.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
You could see the strings attached to the fish...
Figment632
New Member
Do you EVER look at the bright side of things?
At LEAST they are replacing it with SOMETHING!
And I would hardly give 20K those accolades. :shrug:
Nah I am a glass half full kind of person.
You know what I never looked at it like that.
I will say it again the most important think about FLE will be adding much needed capacity to MK.
Figment632
New Member
Aww, is mister straight man afraid of some estrogen in the Magic Kingdom? :ROFLOL:
I love everything about this Expansion, and I think all those boys complaining are just selfish. Not everything can be about Cowboys and Indians. Princesses need love too, I can't wait to go see Belle, and Ariel, in 2 parks!
Sorry it will still be one shorty both will loose their DHS attractions :wave:
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
Have you ridden the Matterhorn? Besides the Nostalgia factor, it's really not that great...very bumpy, unconfortable seating arrangement... Now that we have Everest (even in it's current form) we have no need for the Matterhorn.
You've very good at regurgitating ideas that other people express on here.
While it's true that AK and DHS also serve alchohol (as others have pointed out thinking they are making a valid argument to the fact that Gaston's should serve alcohol...) Since MK is the most child oriented of all of the 4 theme parks, I agree with Scar's sentiment that we are much better off without people stumbling around drunk in the MK. I've seen some VERY unruly behavior in the other parks, and although Mk is not immune to people acting in very bad taste...the lack of alcohol definitely discourages it!
Btw, the person who pointed out that no one has cared much that Liberty Tree Tavern doesnt serve alcohol... :sohappy:
Does anyone have a problem with not being able to get Whiskey from the Diamond Horseshoe Saloon too???
Figment632
New Member
I was on the Matterhorn in May of last year and even though it is old it was still agreat coaster. Also it could have a different theme than the one in DL maybe themed towards villains. Also The theming is top notch on EE but I wouldn't call EE that great of a coaster.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
Maybe Gaston's Tavern should be put in France at Epcot.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
You realize all they'll do is give you an autograph. You can't sit in their laps or anything. Uh, that's what I've heard at least. From someone else.
Enchantâmes
Active Member
You wish. I severly Doubt TDO is going to put funding into changing them, at the same time their building the FLE.
Don't be so crabby, Disney World is putting on a dress and is proud of it! Maybe you should put one on too... Yeah! A Playboy bunny outfit! I can see it now!
Figment632
New Member
You wish. I severly Doubt TDO is going to put funding into changing them, at the same time their building the FLE.
Don't be so crabby, Disney World is putting on a dress and is proud of it! Maybe you should put one on too... Yeah! A Playboy bunny outfit! I can see it now!
I never said how soon they would be gone I just said soon
Criticism #2: The Fantasyland Expansion is just for kids
This criticism actually encompasses a number of different points. So it will require a number of responses. I’ll try to break this down point by point.
On the surface, it seems silly to complain about Fantasyland being kid-oriented. Fantasyland has always been kid-oriented with attractions like Dumbo and “it’s a small world.” The fact that the Fantasyland expansion deals exclusively with animated features and includes no thrill rides is to be expected. So, one might be inclined to dismiss this criticism right off the bat.
But the argument that I have seen that does have merit is that the FLE contributes to the overall conversion of the Magic Kingdom into a “kiddie park”. It is this argument which I will address in the most detail.
The first point I would make is to question the assumption that MK is in fact becoming a “kiddie park”. True, Alien Encounter was replaced with the more kid-friendly Stitch. And the Timekeeper was replaced with Pixar cartoons. And yes, it has been a long time since the Magic Kingdom has received an attraction that could be remotely described as a “thrill ride”. But do those things make MK a “kiddie park”?
My answer is a qualified “no”. As it stands, the Magic Kingdom is filled with attractions that have appeal for guests of all ages. There are three moderate thrill rides (the mountains) and a kid-friendly coaster (Barnstormer) to help kids transition to proper thrill rides. MK is the place to go at WDW for dark rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean which can be enjoyed by anyone. And even the “kiddie rides” of Fantasyland have adult fans.
Has the park been “dumbed down” in recent years? I think you can make that argument. But that is true of the property as a whole. Just ask any Epcot fan. And while DHS may have gotten some needed zing from Toy Story Mania, the place has lost the unique appeal of being a working studio. If MK (or WDW as a whole) has been “dumbed down”, let’s not blame the FLE for a larger issue.
Has the Magic Kingdom been neglected? I think most of us would answer “yes” to this. Since MK is the number one park at WDW, it is not the squeaky wheel. And other parks get attractions more rapidly. Meanwhile, Space Mountain gets a ½ a$$ed refurb instead of the overhaul it really needed. But if MK feels a little stale to longtime regulars, that’s not really the fault of the FLE either.
I understand that fans have waited a long time for MK to get a proper e-ticket. And I feel your pain that the FLE isn’t what you were waiting for. But the FLE is being built to address other concerns. Just because it’s not what you wanted, that doesn’t mean it won’t improve the overall quality of the park. And that can only be a good thing.
So, will the FLE improve the overall quality of the Magic Kingdom? I think it will. Two of the more obvious shortcomings of MK are the capacity issues and the lack of table-service dining. The FLE addresses both of these concerns. Also, as I wrote about in my first post, there is an unmet demand for the princesses and fairies who will be coming to the FLE.
Now, let’s look at what we will be giving up in order to build the FLE. We’re going to lose Toon Town. And while I will miss Minnie’s house, I think most people will agree that Toon Town isn’t really much of a loss. Especially in its current state.
So, basically, we’re losing some play areas and barely themed meet and greets and in exchange we get: 1) A major dark ride described as being on the same scale as the Haunted Mansion. 2) Additional (and much needed) table service and counter service dining also said to be highly themed. 3) Highly themed meet and greets some of which will include new effects all of which will include some kind of activity to distract from the wait time. 4) A new Dumbo themed area with a Next Gen queue and double capacity for a park favorite with perpetually long lines. 5) Increased capacity for a park that needs it. 6) New themed environments to explore. 7) Possibly an additional attraction in Pixie Hollow.
If you separate all of your other issues with the MK as a whole and your own expectations of what you would have built instead, I don’t see how any reasonable person can look at the FLE and think it is not an improvement over what was there before.
Before I wrap up this argument, there is one other point I feel I must make. A lot of people who make the “kiddie park” argument are quite vehement that making MK a “kiddie park” is a bad thing. And while I would hate to see the entire park made to appeal solely to the pre-school set, there is also a point of view that says that the Magic Kingdom should be a family-friendly park.
I happen to think that MK should be as inclusive and family-friendly as possible. In my mind, Alien Encounter was out of place at the Magic Kingdom. And a thrill ride such as Tower or Terror or Rock’n’Rollercoaster (regardless of theme) would be out of place there as well. Like any park, MK needs to have a mix of attractions. And thrill rides should be a part of that mix. But the thrills at MK should be tamer than the thrills that are allowed at some of the other parks.
Disagree with that point if you want to. But ultimately, this is just a difference of opinion over what the Magic Kingdom should be. And neither point of view can be defended any more so than the other.
The most common defense for either point of view is ironically the same quote from Walt Disney. Everyone wants to throw around the Griffith Park story and Walt’s quote about building a place where the family can have fun together.
On the one hand, people point out that thrill rides run counter to that philosophy. On the other hand, people point out that “kiddie” rides were the reason for Walt’s quote.
In my opinion, the Griffith Park quote can be used to support either argument. So its impact to either point of view can be nullified. The fact of the matter is Walt included both thrill rides and “kiddie” rides at Disneyland. The MK should and does have a mix of both.
In summary, I have sympathy for those who feel that the Magic Kingdom has been dumbed down in recent years. Or that it is being turned into a “kiddie park” and that may not be the direction longtime fans wish to see the park take. But to place the blame for these things on the FLE is a mistake.
It seems to me that this criticism is really better directed at other parts of the Magic Kingdom (especially Tomorrowland) and at the treatment of MK as a whole.
On its own, the Fantasyland expansion represents an improvement for the Magic Kingdom. And since it is only replacing other “kiddie” attractions, it can hardly be blamed for making MK into a “kiddie” park.
This criticism actually encompasses a number of different points. So it will require a number of responses. I’ll try to break this down point by point.
On the surface, it seems silly to complain about Fantasyland being kid-oriented. Fantasyland has always been kid-oriented with attractions like Dumbo and “it’s a small world.” The fact that the Fantasyland expansion deals exclusively with animated features and includes no thrill rides is to be expected. So, one might be inclined to dismiss this criticism right off the bat.
But the argument that I have seen that does have merit is that the FLE contributes to the overall conversion of the Magic Kingdom into a “kiddie park”. It is this argument which I will address in the most detail.
The first point I would make is to question the assumption that MK is in fact becoming a “kiddie park”. True, Alien Encounter was replaced with the more kid-friendly Stitch. And the Timekeeper was replaced with Pixar cartoons. And yes, it has been a long time since the Magic Kingdom has received an attraction that could be remotely described as a “thrill ride”. But do those things make MK a “kiddie park”?
My answer is a qualified “no”. As it stands, the Magic Kingdom is filled with attractions that have appeal for guests of all ages. There are three moderate thrill rides (the mountains) and a kid-friendly coaster (Barnstormer) to help kids transition to proper thrill rides. MK is the place to go at WDW for dark rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean which can be enjoyed by anyone. And even the “kiddie rides” of Fantasyland have adult fans.
Has the park been “dumbed down” in recent years? I think you can make that argument. But that is true of the property as a whole. Just ask any Epcot fan. And while DHS may have gotten some needed zing from Toy Story Mania, the place has lost the unique appeal of being a working studio. If MK (or WDW as a whole) has been “dumbed down”, let’s not blame the FLE for a larger issue.
Has the Magic Kingdom been neglected? I think most of us would answer “yes” to this. Since MK is the number one park at WDW, it is not the squeaky wheel. And other parks get attractions more rapidly. Meanwhile, Space Mountain gets a ½ a$$ed refurb instead of the overhaul it really needed. But if MK feels a little stale to longtime regulars, that’s not really the fault of the FLE either.
I understand that fans have waited a long time for MK to get a proper e-ticket. And I feel your pain that the FLE isn’t what you were waiting for. But the FLE is being built to address other concerns. Just because it’s not what you wanted, that doesn’t mean it won’t improve the overall quality of the park. And that can only be a good thing.
So, will the FLE improve the overall quality of the Magic Kingdom? I think it will. Two of the more obvious shortcomings of MK are the capacity issues and the lack of table-service dining. The FLE addresses both of these concerns. Also, as I wrote about in my first post, there is an unmet demand for the princesses and fairies who will be coming to the FLE.
Now, let’s look at what we will be giving up in order to build the FLE. We’re going to lose Toon Town. And while I will miss Minnie’s house, I think most people will agree that Toon Town isn’t really much of a loss. Especially in its current state.
So, basically, we’re losing some play areas and barely themed meet and greets and in exchange we get: 1) A major dark ride described as being on the same scale as the Haunted Mansion. 2) Additional (and much needed) table service and counter service dining also said to be highly themed. 3) Highly themed meet and greets some of which will include new effects all of which will include some kind of activity to distract from the wait time. 4) A new Dumbo themed area with a Next Gen queue and double capacity for a park favorite with perpetually long lines. 5) Increased capacity for a park that needs it. 6) New themed environments to explore. 7) Possibly an additional attraction in Pixie Hollow.
If you separate all of your other issues with the MK as a whole and your own expectations of what you would have built instead, I don’t see how any reasonable person can look at the FLE and think it is not an improvement over what was there before.
Before I wrap up this argument, there is one other point I feel I must make. A lot of people who make the “kiddie park” argument are quite vehement that making MK a “kiddie park” is a bad thing. And while I would hate to see the entire park made to appeal solely to the pre-school set, there is also a point of view that says that the Magic Kingdom should be a family-friendly park.
I happen to think that MK should be as inclusive and family-friendly as possible. In my mind, Alien Encounter was out of place at the Magic Kingdom. And a thrill ride such as Tower or Terror or Rock’n’Rollercoaster (regardless of theme) would be out of place there as well. Like any park, MK needs to have a mix of attractions. And thrill rides should be a part of that mix. But the thrills at MK should be tamer than the thrills that are allowed at some of the other parks.
Disagree with that point if you want to. But ultimately, this is just a difference of opinion over what the Magic Kingdom should be. And neither point of view can be defended any more so than the other.
The most common defense for either point of view is ironically the same quote from Walt Disney. Everyone wants to throw around the Griffith Park story and Walt’s quote about building a place where the family can have fun together.
On the one hand, people point out that thrill rides run counter to that philosophy. On the other hand, people point out that “kiddie” rides were the reason for Walt’s quote.
In my opinion, the Griffith Park quote can be used to support either argument. So its impact to either point of view can be nullified. The fact of the matter is Walt included both thrill rides and “kiddie” rides at Disneyland. The MK should and does have a mix of both.
In summary, I have sympathy for those who feel that the Magic Kingdom has been dumbed down in recent years. Or that it is being turned into a “kiddie park” and that may not be the direction longtime fans wish to see the park take. But to place the blame for these things on the FLE is a mistake.
It seems to me that this criticism is really better directed at other parts of the Magic Kingdom (especially Tomorrowland) and at the treatment of MK as a whole.
On its own, the Fantasyland expansion represents an improvement for the Magic Kingdom. And since it is only replacing other “kiddie” attractions, it can hardly be blamed for making MK into a “kiddie” park.