Lucky
Well-Known Member
Someone else I can agree with on everything. Hey, this is a really cool thread.
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In Defense of FLE
- Thread starter lebeau
- Start date
That argument could be applied to any of the current or future projects in the queue at WDW. Unfortunately, it's a pretty subjective one, and immensely open to personal interpretation. The FLE is the project that TDO is proceeding with however.....
That's a hard point to argue in either direction. I don't know the financials on this project or any of the other alternatives Disney may have considered. Ultimately, the only people who have all of the information necessary to make an informed decision are the people who made it. And they decided that FLE was the best use of their funds. In financial matters, I defer to Disney's expertise.
All I can argue is that FLE is worthwhile. And since it is 1) satisfying the demands of Disney guests which are currently not being met and 2) addressing some of the shortcomings of the MK, I think FLE is beyond a doubt worthwhile.
The fact of the matter is that FLE is accomplishing an awful lot at a relatively low cost. I imagine if I had the financial information available to me in order to make the comparisson you are requesting, there are probably very few alternatives which would do so much so cost effictively. And that, in Disney's estimation, is a very good use of funds.
However, I am curious to know what in your estimation would have been a better use of Disney's funds. I'm happy to debate alternatives to the FLE even if we don't have financial information to back up our arguments.
EmperorMilenko
New Member
Considering the fact that it's mainly aimed towards girls, I think they'll have plenty to do:wave:
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
It's obvious to me that you haven't read this thread.
:brick:
jugglingfanatic
Member
I'm sure we can all agree that Disney does a great job of immersing you into a theme - the architecture of Main Street (first impression on anyone's visit), the sounds, the smells, etc. draw me in to the point I don't think it is a theme park. The current M&G for Tink and the gang was very painful for my family to wait in line for. It's dark, cramped, stuffy, and about the only thing you can do is try and keep the kids happy for an hour. I can't wait to take the family back to Disney to visit the new FLE area and be able to step into the movie scenes and see the great job first hand. Of course, it will probably be opened for several years before we can make it back (2014/2015?), so I need everyone to take plenty of pictures and some video and post them for my family to see.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Well you are right about the lack of financial information to make a compelling argument for FLE or against it. Without knowing the details of how much attractions and the like cost to build vs what TDO has available to build them, we can not be too entrenched in our positions.
Having said that though, I look at FLE as a new land. And if TDO was going to spend money on a new land, then I feel like it should be at Animal Kingdom. If they built Beastly Kingdom, or Mysterious Island, or some variation of that, not only would it boost attendance at their least visited park. But it would also allow TDO to shut down Dinosaur and Everest for their much need full refurbs. IMO this would have been a much better use of funds.
I also would not mind if they used to money at DHS to build us a Pixar dedicated area, more then just the street that is over there now. If they expanded the area, we could have gotten the MI coaster along with a more highly themed environment.
IMO both of these projects that have been on the table would be a much better use of those FLE funds. They both offer a wider appeal then FLE, and would generate more guest visits to Disney's two least visited parks.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
IMO all three project mentioned in your post are needed and well worth the money.
When you build four parks, you need to re-invest in four parks. Do they all need FLE sized projects every year that open all at once? No, that would be a waste of money. But not adding anything to AK in four years is a missed opportunity for sure.
nibblesandbits
Well-Known Member
The one thing that I want to point out is even people within the company or were formerly with the company are underwhelmed with the Fantasyland expansion. I find this information very interesting.
I'm not saying the expansion is bad. I'm excited to see it become reality. And I think that lebeau, you bring up some very valid points. (Especially that last topic...really made some sense there for sure.)
But I think the truth of the matter is, no matter what demographic they are trying to reach with this refurb, and what they are replacing in it's place...the real truth is, in such a big refurb, shouldn't they have done something a little more with it? If this is the first major expansion for this park in YEARS, shouldn't they have announced something that really swings the gates wide open? Something that's really, really is spectacular? I know this is going to be a great expansion...I just am not sure it's on the scale it should have possibly been. I really think monetary issues got in the way of making this a top notch refurb.
And I think this is the sticking point that most people have with the expansion as well. But I'd be interested to hear an argument against this position. Because I would be open to be persuaded.
I'm not saying the expansion is bad. I'm excited to see it become reality. And I think that lebeau, you bring up some very valid points. (Especially that last topic...really made some sense there for sure.)
But I think the truth of the matter is, no matter what demographic they are trying to reach with this refurb, and what they are replacing in it's place...the real truth is, in such a big refurb, shouldn't they have done something a little more with it? If this is the first major expansion for this park in YEARS, shouldn't they have announced something that really swings the gates wide open? Something that's really, really is spectacular? I know this is going to be a great expansion...I just am not sure it's on the scale it should have possibly been. I really think monetary issues got in the way of making this a top notch refurb.
And I think this is the sticking point that most people have with the expansion as well. But I'd be interested to hear an argument against this position. Because I would be open to be persuaded.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I think this is the problem itself. It's been so long since MK had anything done on this scale before (not since Tomorrowland in 1994) that we expect way too much out of one "expansion" especially when the PR statements are hyping it so much, as is their job.
There are 5 other lands in MK in which to add on too and create more for. When the biggest criticism was originally "this needs one more real ride" there wasn't much consideration of this fact. It's as if everything people wanted for the park was supposed to happen with this one expansion when there should have been other stuff of a substantial scale happening over the course of 15 years.
This expansion is a step in the right direction, not a DCA sized overhaul. More things should and could be done elsewhere in the park and when they do happen I think the disappointment surrounding Fantasyland will decline.
nibblesandbits
Well-Known Member
I think you're right. I think that Disney did wait too long to give the MK anything substantial...so...as you're waiting...and waiting....and waiting...you start building things up in your head. The next announcement should be the big one. It should be the most amazing rides ever built.
And of course, it doesn't help that Disney marketing is toting this as the end all, be all (athough, that is sort of their job...so I can understand it fully) when it's not.
I think you're also right in the fact that they should have been adding things for years and it might have taken the sting off the fact that this wasn't such a grand expansion as many had hoped would happen in this tract of important land. Not adding anything substantial really hurt in the long run.
I can only hope, that this is a step in the right direction...and that they do continue to move in other positive areas after this expansion occurs. I hope this is just the first step though...and not something where we'll have to sit and wait another 15 years before something major happens again for the MK.
I think we all agree that AK needs a new land and Pixar Place needs expansion beyond TSM. As a fan, I would also place a higher priority on these projects than on FLE. I can only assume that when the number were crunched, FLE made the most (dollars and) sense.
To some extent, I see FLE as a quick fix on Disney's part. For a relatively small amount of money, they are able to fix a number of problems with their number one park. That's gotta be attractive to them.
As fans, we'd rather see them open the purse strings a little more and do something that is more enticing to us. Something bug that will make us want to schedule a return trip sooner rather than later. But unfortunately, that's not where things seem to be going in Orlando these days. (At least not at Disney.)
So while I will defend FLE as an improvement to the Magic Kingdom and as a smart business move, I understand the disappointment of fans who were looking for a grander gesture.
At the end of the day, FLE is what it is. And I see the pros outweighing the cons across the board.
Hopefully, there will come a time when Disney's approach to WDW will change for the better. If that day comes, maybe the new FL will get fleshed out a little more with another attraction or two as well.
I share your hope and also your implied cynicism.
Criticism #3: The Fantasyland Expansion is "Underwhelming"
Perhaps the most consistent criticism since the announcement of the FLE is that it is somehow underwhelming in scope. "It's just one ride and a bunch of meet and greets" is a common complaint. Or "I expected more." Usually, this is followed by pointing out how long it has been since the Magic Kingdom received a major new attraction.
Much has been made over the idea that the Magic Kingdom hasn't received a new e-ticket since Splash Mountain debuted. But while that may be true, it is also irrelevant. Disney needs to make decisions based on the needs of the indvidual parks.
We all know why there haven't been any new e-ticket attractions at MK since Splash Mountain. The other parks need them more. Many still consider DHS and AK to be half-day parks. Certainly, AK needed EE more than MK needed a new e-ticket. The same could be said of ToT and RRC at DHS.
These kinds of e-ticket thrill rides are built to increase attendance. The Magic Kingdom is currently number one in attendance. While I'm sure Disney wouldn't mind increasing attendance at all of its parks, other parks need the attendance bump of a new e-ticket more than the Magic Kingdom does.
As the only park that has to close its gates to paying customers, what the Magic Kingdom really needs is an increase in capacity. With the increased capacity the FLE will bring, Disney can leave the Magic Kingdom gates open longer to maximize its profits on its busiest days.
Until crowds are more evenly dispersed among the parks, it just makes sense for Disney to concentrate on increasing capacity at MK while increasing attendance at the other parks.
FLE delivers exactly what MK currently needs. "Dueling Dumbos" doubles the capacity of one of the park's most popular rides. And the next gen queue is bound to reduce complaints from the parents of antsy kids. There are new (and much needed) dining options and a new attraction that will swallow a lot of guests.
Also, there are the "meet and greets". Until we actually see these in action, it's hard to know exactly what to make of them. But one thing is for sure. They are certain to be better than the barely themed meet and greets they are replacing. Even if one assumes the worst, these highly themed experiences are bound to be an improvement over the tents of Toon Town.
And it's just possible that these experiences will exceed your expectations. While they may not be rides, they will certainly be popular attractions. So I think it's premature to write them off as "glorified meet and greets". In the end, that may be are they all to a lot of guests. But they may very well be the highlight of a vacation for a lot of guests.
Every time I look at the FLE, I can't help but be impressed by how many of the Magic Kingdom's issues it addresses and how cost effectively it achieves its goals. It may not be what long time MK fans have been waiting for. But it is what Disney needs.
Perhaps the most consistent criticism since the announcement of the FLE is that it is somehow underwhelming in scope. "It's just one ride and a bunch of meet and greets" is a common complaint. Or "I expected more." Usually, this is followed by pointing out how long it has been since the Magic Kingdom received a major new attraction.
Much has been made over the idea that the Magic Kingdom hasn't received a new e-ticket since Splash Mountain debuted. But while that may be true, it is also irrelevant. Disney needs to make decisions based on the needs of the indvidual parks.
We all know why there haven't been any new e-ticket attractions at MK since Splash Mountain. The other parks need them more. Many still consider DHS and AK to be half-day parks. Certainly, AK needed EE more than MK needed a new e-ticket. The same could be said of ToT and RRC at DHS.
These kinds of e-ticket thrill rides are built to increase attendance. The Magic Kingdom is currently number one in attendance. While I'm sure Disney wouldn't mind increasing attendance at all of its parks, other parks need the attendance bump of a new e-ticket more than the Magic Kingdom does.
As the only park that has to close its gates to paying customers, what the Magic Kingdom really needs is an increase in capacity. With the increased capacity the FLE will bring, Disney can leave the Magic Kingdom gates open longer to maximize its profits on its busiest days.
Until crowds are more evenly dispersed among the parks, it just makes sense for Disney to concentrate on increasing capacity at MK while increasing attendance at the other parks.
FLE delivers exactly what MK currently needs. "Dueling Dumbos" doubles the capacity of one of the park's most popular rides. And the next gen queue is bound to reduce complaints from the parents of antsy kids. There are new (and much needed) dining options and a new attraction that will swallow a lot of guests.
Also, there are the "meet and greets". Until we actually see these in action, it's hard to know exactly what to make of them. But one thing is for sure. They are certain to be better than the barely themed meet and greets they are replacing. Even if one assumes the worst, these highly themed experiences are bound to be an improvement over the tents of Toon Town.
And it's just possible that these experiences will exceed your expectations. While they may not be rides, they will certainly be popular attractions. So I think it's premature to write them off as "glorified meet and greets". In the end, that may be are they all to a lot of guests. But they may very well be the highlight of a vacation for a lot of guests.
Every time I look at the FLE, I can't help but be impressed by how many of the Magic Kingdom's issues it addresses and how cost effectively it achieves its goals. It may not be what long time MK fans have been waiting for. But it is what Disney needs.
MonsterManX
New Member
Do you think when it's all said and done ,they're gonna try to achieve more guys into this land? Like we all know the target demographic are little girls because the Princesses=$$$.
They should add a ride for Hercules already. The character fits the fantasy bill pretty dang well if you ask me.
They should add a ride for Hercules already. The character fits the fantasy bill pretty dang well if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hercules is an underrated movie. But I think if it (or any other Disney property) had any kind of substantial following with boys, Disney would have made use of it by now.
Right now when it comes to boys, Disney has Cars and Toy Story. To a lesser extent, it has Pirates. But that franchise never caught on outside of the movies the way Disney hoped.
Disney acquired Marvel because their attempts to appeal to boys (Hercules, Treasure Planet, Tarzan) weren't very successful. As far as the parks go, I don't think Disney needs to go to any great effort to appeal to boys at this point.
As I have said from the outset, by creating an area aimed at little girls, Disney is just evening things out. It's perfectly okay if this little part of the resorts is primarily aimed at girls. Most everything else on property skews towards traditionally male interests.
MonsterManX
New Member
Hm I suppose your right. Wow Treasure Planet , almost forgot about that one. That movie could have been huge , I can only assume it had to do with Eisner that it wasn't a success. Hercules and Tarzan are awesome flicks either way.
Pixie Hollow? Isn't that a straight to dvd film? Successful or not that is being built.One of these flicks stated should get a ride somewhere in the future (doesn't even have to be in FantasyLand).
Will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. God I hope they annouce something Marvel Oriented soon. Such a comic book nerd.