Kitchen Kabaret was our daughter's favorite attraction ever. She didn't mind Food Rocks, but always missed Kitchen Kabaret. There was a box that emitted smells of food when various doors were opened. She loved it. She took her stuffed Figment with her into the theater and everywhere else in EPCOT. The new incarnation of the Figment ride is an affront to long time EPCOT lovers.
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Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald takes over the creative direction of Epcot
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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Kitchen Kabaret was our daughter's favorite attraction ever. She didn't mind Food Rocks, but always missed Kitchen Kabaret. There was a box that emitted smells of food when various doors were opened. She loved it. She took her stuffed Figment with her into the theater and everywhere else in EPCOT. The new incarnation of the Figment ride is an affront to long time EPCOT lovers.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Start going to DL problem solved
DreamfinderFigmentFan
Member
NO! The problem is NOT solved!!! This is a serious issue! Disney needs to keep the main classics for each generation to experience, when classics are replaced with garbage! It ruins the Disney park experience!!
We did exactly that last January. We cancelled our reservations at WDW and went to sunny California. We couldn't get into the VGC and instead stayed at Marriott's Newport Coast Villas. We stayed for two weeks and spent three days at Disney. In Florida we would have spent the entire time at WDW. We are not big Universal fans. Well.....we do like HP. I can't wait to ride the Hogwarts Express.
We are waiting to see how our May WDW trip goes. My daughter has already requested a return trip to California. She wants to go back to Newport Beach.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I loved Disneyland and literally cannot wait to go back. I'm very anxious to return. Darn that little thing called money ... lol. It's been several years too long, but at least I have the now wonderful DCA to look forward to (was there in 2008!). Disneyland is such a unique experience. Anyone who hasn't, NEEDS to go. I'm hoping to get back there next year for the anniversary.
DreamfinderFigmentFan
Member
I actually live very close to Disneyland and go very often. I go once a month since I have an annual pass and always wear my Figment gear when I go (hat, shirt, pin lanyard, and 1983 Figment hand puppet) and I love getting the compliments from guests, fans, and cast members. It's so much fun. I went to Walt Disney World once last summer for my first time and enjoyed it but thought Epcot was lacking because of the lack of all the good classic attractions. .
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RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
It didn't really return from the dead, didn't it just move?
El Grupo
Well-Known Member
DL today is why I still have considerable hope for WDW's future. "The Happiest Place on Earth" has improved quite a bit since my first trips there in the early to mid 90s.
Carsland was great! If only Disney built something that well done at WDW. FLE, on my opinion, did not hold a candle to Carsland. Can they get whoever designed Carsland to do something for EPCOT?
We also recommend a blast from the past. We rode Mr. Toad several times. We really like Winnie the Pooh, but it was good to get another chance to ride a classic.
Haunted Mansion was decorated with the Nightmare before Christmas. Also very well done. What happened to the Christmas theming at EPCOT? I remember when .....
I get your point, and to an extent I agree. Thing is, that doesn't solve it. That just sweeps the problem under the rug. I've spent way more time at DL over the last year than WDW. I spent time at Tokyo Disneyland (at DisneySea) too. I even visited Aulani for a day just to chill and see what it was like. All are higher quality than what WDW offers right now, but I wish I didn't have to avoid WDW to get a good Disney experience.
Besides, even while avoiding WDW, I am still pumping money into the Disney Corporation, just through different avenues. So, while I like to think that avoiding WDW and instead visiting DL makes a point, Disney still gets their money from me...and that seems to be all their care about.
The solution is for them to fix what is wrong. The solutions are straightforward. They cost money, but aren't rocket science. They know exactly what is wrong with Imagination, Energy, and the rest of FW. They know what is lacking from DHS. They know where to invest in DAK. It isn't hard to conceptualize or design.
Maybe, just maybe, Tom Fitzgerald can set EPCOT on the right path again. He might not be able to solve it, but maybe he can help. He is responsible for Imagination 2.0 and 3.0...and I have no idea what is wrong with the people that just did the paint job on Innoventions Plaza...but maybe he can help. That way we don't have to avoid these incredible places, and we get to fully enjoy them again instead of doing what I do - walk around EPCOT and point out all the things that are wrong with the place or that I miss. Unfortunately, I still point out more things that are wrong than are right...and next time I see Innoventions I will have another thing to point out that is wrong.
Rodan75
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand, is why for a minute would WDW want to resurrect old EPCOT. Does anyone remember the years where they were virtually giving away entrance to old 'classic' EPCOT to Floridians to get people in the park in the afternoon. Do you think they forget why they had to create F&G and F&W. Booze saved EPCOT and TT and Soarin keep it on life support.
I think any hope of the original intent of EPCOT is long since dead. The best we can hope for is some form of consistent theme in FW and correct references to the cultures in WS.
Let's get real and stop rearranging the deck chairs. I loved EPCOT and I miss it very much. But the only way we are getting Horizons or WoL back is if someone writes a compelling movie and sells it to TWDC, and that movie makes a billion dollars at the box office.
I think any hope of the original intent of EPCOT is long since dead. The best we can hope for is some form of consistent theme in FW and correct references to the cultures in WS.
Let's get real and stop rearranging the deck chairs. I loved EPCOT and I miss it very much. But the only way we are getting Horizons or WoL back is if someone writes a compelling movie and sells it to TWDC, and that movie makes a billion dollars at the box office.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Jim Hill chimed in over on the WDW Kingdomcast Facebook page and one of the things he mentioned was that Tom Fitzgerald's objective was to focus on more long term solutions. He specifically cited things like Food and Wine, Flower and Garden and Holidays around the World as being artificial attendance boosters. Similarly, the newly added dining served the same objective of making Epcot a place where guests park hop to as opposed to starting their day.
With that said, as much as I love EPCOT Center, you can't simply replicate it. I don't think Horizons works today even if it was updated with state of the art animatronics. I think the concepts behind Imagination very well could work simply because Imagination is a much broader approach. It's somewhat ironic that the Imagination reboots were built with restrictions (fitting into a different space, budget, etc) and it's almost self mocking with the line, "Imagination is best when it's set free". I love the look of the building that houses the attraction but I wouldn't oppose them knocking it down and starting anew if it meant a truly great experience. Aside from a Star Wars Land in DHS, an LPS attraction in the Imagination Pavilion seems to be the biggest no brainer from an attraction development standpoint. If you want to use Dreamfinder and Figment, great. But you can't do it the same way. LPS allows you to do this with a new ride system that tells a similar story.
I'm no Imagineer, but just I'll throw this out as a way of telling the same story with a new ride system:
The turn table scene was iconic, but evidently problematic. You can tell the story again with Dreamfinder introducing Figment, you can bring back the steampunk ship and Figment's whimsy. But with LPS you no longer have to view the scene as a diorama. What does the other side of the ship look like? Why does Figment have to stay on the ship? Can he emerge elsewhere in the scene? The ship can still be the center but the focus can move all around the room, as the vehicles move around the room. Thunder and lightening is more intense when it's all around you as opposed to in front of you.
With that said, as much as I love EPCOT Center, you can't simply replicate it. I don't think Horizons works today even if it was updated with state of the art animatronics. I think the concepts behind Imagination very well could work simply because Imagination is a much broader approach. It's somewhat ironic that the Imagination reboots were built with restrictions (fitting into a different space, budget, etc) and it's almost self mocking with the line, "Imagination is best when it's set free". I love the look of the building that houses the attraction but I wouldn't oppose them knocking it down and starting anew if it meant a truly great experience. Aside from a Star Wars Land in DHS, an LPS attraction in the Imagination Pavilion seems to be the biggest no brainer from an attraction development standpoint. If you want to use Dreamfinder and Figment, great. But you can't do it the same way. LPS allows you to do this with a new ride system that tells a similar story.
I'm no Imagineer, but just I'll throw this out as a way of telling the same story with a new ride system:
The turn table scene was iconic, but evidently problematic. You can tell the story again with Dreamfinder introducing Figment, you can bring back the steampunk ship and Figment's whimsy. But with LPS you no longer have to view the scene as a diorama. What does the other side of the ship look like? Why does Figment have to stay on the ship? Can he emerge elsewhere in the scene? The ship can still be the center but the focus can move all around the room, as the vehicles move around the room. Thunder and lightening is more intense when it's all around you as opposed to in front of you.
DreamfinderFigmentFan
Member
Love your idea for an modern technology version of the original. This is what I'm talking about!
Kman101
Well-Known Member
FINALLY someone within that company recognizes the false attendance boosters that are F&W, Holidays around the World and Flower and Garden. That's encouraging. I don't think they should necessarily be axed (but let's be real, F&W is getting out of hand), but if it means that money going towards investment in the park, then I'm for that. Let's hope....
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I actually had a shockingly similar thought to your idea about the beginning scene, funny. Make the scene a larger more open room where multiple rows of ride vehicles can circle around the center of the scene while the scene is playing out. The digitally projected weather and lighting effects can remain and could be expanded to the walls and ceiling, improvements to the digital mapping tech could truly be something to behold in a true next gen version of this ride.
Dreamfinder would descend from above (through a hidden opening in the ceiling) in his flying machine. With a hanging vehicle not as physically restricted as before, his vehicle could have a greater range of motion and could move around the room to a far greater extent. Perhaps they could use some sort of Kuka arm disguised by hanging cloud props and fog effects as the way to pull it off (though really any basic hanging system could work if Disney's lawyers weren't so against show elements suspended above guests). The scene could play out much the same as the original story wise (they can even use the same dialog and such), just the execution would be different. Hell Figment has wings, we never saw him use them originally but they could make his AA figure fly around the scene alongside Dreamfinder's vehicle after we see his creation.
It still might be a good idea to have multiple copies of this show scene however for efficiency reasons. Assuming the scene would still be several minutes long and all guests would see it without being cut off. LPS I believe isn't used as a continuously moving ride system unlike omnimover (i suppose it could be possible to alter it but i've yet to see it be done). So with that particular ride system along with the re-working and expansion of the first show scene, the entire scene is going to take more time than before. Besides the couple of minutes the show scene itself will take, it's going to take some time for all the vehicles to both enter and exit the room after the loading area. As the show scene itself won't be rotating with the vehicles anymore, there would also be a several minute long wait period at the loading area until that batch of vehicles vacates that scene to make way for the next (kind of like the way simulators work). So to maintain decent efficiency with speedy loading and moving lines, it would perhaps be best to still have multiple alternating copies of the same scene. At least two or three so there's always one available or close to being available for the next batch of vehicles. Though i'm not sure if they'd have enough space to do something like this.
The original turntable may have been problematic, but it still was a clever and very effective way to integrate a lengthy story sequence while maintaining the efficiency of a constantly loading/unloading omnimover. It was basically a "preshow" of sorts integrated into the actual ride.
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DreamfinderFigmentFan
Member
Ya, exactly, I was thinking they could reuse the original audio remastered and keep it the same story and everything but have the scenes all updated with modern technology and effects!
The bottom line is that I just want to have a good time in the parks, including EPCOT.
I don't care if the original theme of EPCOT is maintained.
I don't care if characters are introduced into the countries.
I want plenty to do in EPCOT so that I am not bored after a couple of hours.
I don't want everything in EPCOT to involve spending money. I don't mind shopping, eating and drinking in EPCOT, but I mind if that is the only thing to do. I can shop, eat, and drink elsewhere without paying a substantial admission fee.
Again, I don't mind well done character inclusion. I do mind substandard introduction of characters in EPCOT. Nemo, in my opinion could have been an appropriate addition to the Living Seas. However, in its implementation, it was not an addition, but a subtraction. I am concerned that the overlay of Frozen on Maelstrom will be another subtraction because Disney will cut so many corners in the implementation. The introduction of characters needs to be done right or not at all.
I don't care if the original theme of EPCOT is maintained.
I don't care if characters are introduced into the countries.
I want plenty to do in EPCOT so that I am not bored after a couple of hours.
I don't want everything in EPCOT to involve spending money. I don't mind shopping, eating and drinking in EPCOT, but I mind if that is the only thing to do. I can shop, eat, and drink elsewhere without paying a substantial admission fee.
Again, I don't mind well done character inclusion. I do mind substandard introduction of characters in EPCOT. Nemo, in my opinion could have been an appropriate addition to the Living Seas. However, in its implementation, it was not an addition, but a subtraction. I am concerned that the overlay of Frozen on Maelstrom will be another subtraction because Disney will cut so many corners in the implementation. The introduction of characters needs to be done right or not at all.
CDavid
Well-Known Member
I was thinking it was closed at Epcot for a while before opening at the Magic Kingdom; According to Wikipedia, it was shuttered close to two years. I suppose the question of whether it was resurrected to merely moved hinges on Disney's intentions. The Lion King show at Animal Kingdom is being moved after having been closed some six months, but clearly not returning from the dead; The reopening was always planned.
I want to say this was reported as a return "by popular demand', but memory gets fuzzy after a quarter century, and I have no idea where I originally heard that (early net discussion forums???).
While the festivals do indeed support Epcot annual attendance, painting original Epcot Center as a failure is little more than revisionist history.
I care. i expect Disney to adhere to its own established standards.
And this would make me happy. There simply is no copying Billy Barty's Figment voice. Remaster the original soundtrack, whatever is left of it, and lets start from there.
DreamfinderFigmentFan
Member
I actually have the full original soundtrack on my iPhone as an mp3