Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald takes over the creative direction of Epcot

[Crazy Harry]

It does matter. It has to be entertaining first or IMO it will not stand the test of time. When I say that im talking in the pure sense of the word not if its classified as entertainment or not. But whether or not it entertains the person experiencing it. As far as I can tell the lines at SSE are WAY shorter now than in the 80's so I have to think that most visitors NEW AND OLD find it stale. I haven't waited to board it since 1994 and at this point wouldn't wait more than 5 minutes to do so

I guess I would want to see some hard attendance numbers before I subscribe to your theory. After all, I have waited in line longer for SSE at various points than I have for either POTC or HM, so there are more than just a few variables at play. Wait times don't nessisarily mean the attraction is not as popular. I would think that the addition of attractions like TT, Soarin', and M:S have slowed down compacity levels relative to WoM and Horizons and that people may be waiting in other lines longer because the hourly compacity is less. If people are in line for TT for an hour, and Soarin' for 2?, then there are less people to be in other parts of the park. I think that makes sense

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

ALL of EPCOT is not just stale but SUPER stale. Even the Dept store in Japan has the exact same merchandise inside that it did in 95.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

I guess I would want to see some hard attendance numbers before I subscribe to your theory. After all, I have waited in line longer for SSE at various points than I have for either POTC or HM, so there are more than just a few variables at play. Wait times don't nessisarily mean the attraction is not as popular. I would think that the addition of attractions like TT, Soarin', and M:S have slowed down compacity levels relative to WoM and Horizons and that people may be waiting in other lines longer because the hourly compacity is less. If people are in line for TT for an hour, and Soarin' for 2?, then there are less people to be in other parts of the park. I think that makes sense

Unfortunately we will never really know if more or less people are riding it. These are just my personal observations

 

[sshindel]

ALL of EPCOT is not just stale but SUPER stale. Even the Dept store in Japan has the exact same merchandise inside that it did in 95.

Thus the number of people BEGGING for there to be even the slightest iota of truth to the OP, that someone at Disney (WDI/TDO/etc) truly believes that this needs to be given some TLC.
I'm just not going to believe it until I see a budget attached that is at least 10 digits long.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

I do want to make this one thing clear. I am in agreement that I would love to see EPCOT go back to it's original "feeling" and GLORY!
I just don't want to see anything old come back....

Except the adventurers club

 

[Crazy Harry]

Unfortunately we will never really know if more or less people are riding it. These are just my personal observations

And my point is that your personal observation does not prove or even nessisarily suggest that SSE is less popular than it used to be, it just proves that the line is shorter when you have seen it. Also, I would imagine that many rides are not as 'popular' as when they first opened. Would Pirates or HM ever be a walk on back in the 70's? I have had limited wait times for those two attractions when I have visited, and no one s suggesting they remove those.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

Other than your personal opinion what facts can you cite that "no one s suggesting they remove those."
and I'm being serious and not trolling. Do you mean no one on here? A mere fraction of the actual visitors to WDW. Your personal observation does not prove or even nessisarily suggest that No one is suggesting they remove the Haunted mansion or POC.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

Again though, one person's stale is another person's classic. I'm personally done with Peter Pan's Flight, and it was near the top of my list a scant 5-10 years ago. On the other hand, my favorite attraction, The Enchanted Tiki Room, was once considered so stale that they decided to update it to keep with the times not too long ago (Under New Management) before a stroke of luck (and fire) helped them correct that mistake.

And that makes my point. We cannot ask Disney to cater to each others classics or we will all be dissatisfied eventually. All the attractions eventually need to be replaced.

 

[Crazy Harry]

Other than your personal opinion what facts can you cite that "no one s suggesting they remove those."
and I'm being serious and not trolling. Do you mean no one on here? A mere fraction of the actual visitors to WDW. Your personal observation does not prove or even nessisarily suggest that No one is suggesting they remove the Haunted mansion or POC.

How about the investment of money into additions and renovations, the building of these attractions at other parks around the world (or comparable variations), official Disney guides describing these as 'classics', and the continued development of feature films. Not to mention that I am fairly certain you will not find a single person on this site, or any Disney fan site that suggests they should remove them, or any rumor that this is being discussed in the company. That kind of thing has a tendancy to leak. And I am sure there is other evidence I can't think of off hand.

 

[asianway]

No it's not and that is the same BS people were saying about CPT EO until they brought it back and everyone saw just how cheesey it really was. Let me correct that formula for you. Memory > Reality

They both suck. MTM gains points due to the cheese factor. MS loses points due to what it replaced.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

How about the investment of money into additions and renovations, the building of these attractions at other parks around the world (or comparable variations), official Disney guides describing these as 'classics', and the continued development of feature films. Not to mention that I am fairly certain you will not find a single person on this site, or any Disney fan site that suggests they should remove them, or any rumor that this is being discussed in the company. That kind of thing has a tendancy to leak. And I am sure there is other evidence I can't think of off hand.

I assure you there is at least one person on this board that wouldn't mind POC going bye bye.
I would name names but that person wishes to remain anonymous for fear of retribution.

 

[jlsHouston]

Agreed, the old Dreamfinder needs to come back, and I adored several other scenes of the old, but they have to do away with those road signs that plagued all versions of the ride. Turn those awkward back halls into an interact-with Figment bit, perhaps a design an environment, battling against other cars to have your colors/shapes/sounds blend or dominate, or working together to build virtual lego structures (on the walls around the ride track, not on a screen in the car) ... I don't know... just saying what comes to mind. Fitted technology that links displays to magic bands, they could also change it up if they were dedicated to doing so every so often.

EPCOT certainly could use more play zones for kids, but I'd hate to see the Imageworks space geared up as a kid's playground as it was before. As a kid, I loved it with my little sister, but I recall the tears of bordom in my parent's eyes. Adults of all ages need something there that can stimulate curiosity too.

I loved the playgrounds they had set up during F&G for the kiddos, but as much as I love my grandkids and going to WDW with them, I really hate the stroller parking lots at MK and would hate to see EPCOT with massive stroller parking areas too

 

[Crazy Harry]

I assure you there is at least one person on this board that wouldn't mind POC going bye bye.
I would name names but that person wishes to remain anonymous for fear of retribution.

Ok, most people.

 

[jlsHouston]

The rumor is they are considering adding a 3rd theater to the ride too. That would help with crowds. The movie could use an update. The new film will be used in several parks so they can spread the costs out.

Good because I don't care if I am in Florida, Soarin over Cali feels fine to me.

 

[Kman101]

I'm not adding this link so it can be bumped back up (let's not), and it's for DHS, but I really wish this were still happening: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/why-hollywood-studios-is-being-rebuilt.867235/

Such promise a year ago.

 

[jlsHouston]

ALL of EPCOT is not just stale but SUPER stale. Even the Dept store in Japan has the exact same merchandise inside that it did in 95.

and I love that....

 

[DreamfinderFigmentFan]

I know I've said this already in the past but I'm gonna say it again. I really don't understand why everyone wants something new when the original was already good enough and all the other NEW version were pure utter GARBAGE!!!! Journey Into Imagination was a classic and shouldn't've been changed except for the technology, effects, and some parts of the ride such as the science part! Why is everyone against bringing back the original JII with all NEW MODERN technology. All NEW animatronics, NEW effects, NEW elements to the ride, NEW ride system, REMASTERED original soundtrack, and The ImageWorks reopened with ALL NEW activities??!! Reason why all us fans and purists don't want another new one again, it wouldn't have the same feeling or charm the original had. Plus people wouldn't be introduced to the characters or the ride properly. It's be like of they completely changed Splash Mountain! ITD BE HORRENDOUS!! They should've done what they did with Pirates of the Carribean, kept the ride the same but added NEW elements to make it MODERN! But no with JII they changed it to a bunch of BS!!! Could u imagine a modernized Journey Into Imagination with all new advanced animatronics, a new ride system, a new ImageWorks, added new elements, the original scenes more gorgeous and beautiful then ever, a new sound system that really captured the depth and feel of the original musical score by Buddy Baker??? I DONT WANT Another FAILURE like the last two attempts at updating it! I want a MODERNIZED ORIGINAL version with ALL NEW TECHNOLOGY! This is TOM FITZGERALD, we're talking about here EPCOT fans, not Tony Baxter guys! He already made two awful versions of JII, would hate to see ANOTHER horrible version by him

 

[DreamfinderFigmentFan]

People did the same thing last time by just saying they wanted "Figment" back. Atleast I knew what they meant, they wanted the original ride back. But Disney obviously didn't and they did exactly what they said they "wanted". They threw Figment in and said he was "back" and that the ride was "fixed". YA RIGHT!! I just don't want the same kind of thing to happen all over again! It scares me to think of the fate of Dreamfinder & Figment if fans keep making these types of choices. They need to be very careful on what they say. We need to say we want the ORIGINAL version back with MODERN technology. The people that are saying they want another new version.... U guys are setting yourselves up for another failed attempt at bringing back Dreamfinder & Figment properly.

 

[Crafty]

I read a book about something called the Tipping Point. It's idea was that momentum slowly builds and then a tipping point is reached. Once this point is reached, it is almost impossible to go back.

Guest satisfaction is declining in the parks, but the tipping point has not been reached.

Our family's tipping point is very close. We have a lifetime of memories in the parks and we have been continuing to go because the parks remind us of the great times we had there. Our daughter has those memories and loves the parks. Quality had been declining for some time, but it wasn't until last August that we had had enough. Last August we had the worst trip we have ever had. We were hassled, especially at DHS, and we had a substandard and broken DVC SSR Room. The parks seemed boring, and we did not make any good memories. We are returning next month, primarily so that we can get some more use from our APs. If this trip is like the one last August, we won't go back. Our tipping point will have been reached. I can't imagine what Disney could do to get us to return.

If our tipping point has been reached, and we bought into OKW in 1993, then the same thing must be happening to other families. Our daughter had been planning on having her wedding at Disney and had looked forward to bringing her kids. Not any more. We don't mind paying a great deal if the experience is worth it. We feel that it no longer is.

If kids don't have a great time at Disney, they will not feel the necessity of bringing their kids to the parks and the cycle of grandparents, parents and kids in the parks will be broken. I don't believe that there is any longer an inexhaustible supply of middle class families to become first time and/or once in a lifetime visitors. When Disney loses its long time devotees, who will replace them?

I don't think that Disney has until 2017 or 2022 or whatever year to fix the parks. The thought that EPCOT can be left to disintegrate further while plans are announced, attractions designed and value engineered and something is finally build is folly. By the time the parks are fixed, the potential audience could be so reduced that the tipping point will have been reached.

EPCOT is in such bad shape that it needs to be fixed very quickly. I am not optimistic that anything will be done at all, let alone in a timely manner.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I can't speak for everyone but imagine if people were instead saying "Bring back the Haunted Mansion" or "Bring back Splash Mountain"... ..or any of the other popular attractions that are considered iconic. It's understandable that people feel nostalgic for attractions they had been visiting for a good 15 years -- and the shows at Epcot were created on a scale more epic than any of the ones I mentioned above. I still can't believe that they simply tore down Horizons, or gutted the sets for World of Motion and Journey Into Imagination. Imagine tearing-out the sets for Pirates of the Caribbean and replacing it with something else! What could possibly replace that experience? I also have a feeling that folks think that the past shows said more about the future and were more inspiring than the current ones. That's really saying something!

I agree that things need to move forward though and recreating the 1980's is not going to be the answer. But there are definitely lessons that can be learned from that time. It would be nice if they could build upon the nostalgia that people feel for the former attractions and incorporate that into new concepts in a meaningful way. I think they would get a lot more buy-in from the public. Also, it would be fun to explore some of the concepts that were considered for Epcot but never brought to reality because of either cost or lack of technology. There are lots of ideas than can be used as new starting points.

Your last two sentences are my point exactly... Bring in what Epcot stood for and it's unique, new concepts that will wow and dazzle a new generation as Epcot center did for those of the 80s!

Nothing would make me happier than to go back to Epcot and be amazed at what I see in store for our future, in EPCOT CENTER's Future World.

Thus the number of people BEGGING for there to be even the slightest iota of truth to the OP, that someone at Disney (WDI/TDO/etc) truly believes that this needs to be given some TLC.
I'm just not going to believe it until I see a budget attached that is at least 10 digits long.

The honest truth, stated very well.