Iger mentions plans for EPCOT

[mj2v]

I'll help.

Off topic, but I'm watching Brave on the Disney channel. It's irking my bird that it's being referred to as "princess Merida in Brave".... It's called Brave. Announce it as such. Stop dumbing everything down.

Uh.... Ok.

 

[Wikkler]

Is it that (unfortunately) the modern audience has to have IPs and/or have an interactive experience to be entertained? I certainly don't want to see EPCOT become another fantasyland (and I certainly think that Frozen in Norway is questionable at best), but is it the worst thing to use IPs THAT FIT to help tell the story?

Do people ride a ride because they want to be enlightened, to go on a journey, to gain insight about the world around them, with a character as a guide? I certainly would, but most people would ride that type of ride because it's just the [character/franchise] ride. It's the Nemo ride, the Frozen ride, the Ellen ride, not the ride about the wonders of the ocean, the culture of Norway (not like that one would feature it), or the science behind the energy that powers our houses and cars and computers.

If characters can exist in concert with Epcot's focus on reality, as opposed to fantasy, I'm ok with it. They obviously aren't necessary, but if this is the only way they can imagine revitalizing Epcot, so be it. As long as they expand instead of replace--Disney needs to learn to add space, without awkwardly retrofitting original infrastructure like Frozen Ever After or the Star Wars project in DL. Hopefully they'll realize this sooner or later.

It's the nature of characters that they generally will lean more towards fantasy, and the plots of their own movies, than serving the educational aspects of the ride. Did any of you think that the "Olaf gives a tour of Norway" ride could have actually happened?

The original ideas of Epcot are no longer interesting enough for today's brand new guests who probably relate Aladdin more to Morocco than the original idea of the pavillion being a showcase of Morocco.

Most guests don't associate Aladdin with Morocco, if they even know what Morocco is. They associate Aladdin with the classic movie with the Genie and the Flying Carpet and Jafar and Iago and Jasmine and Aladdin...

Just to reflect on some of the themes in this thread...

There's no doubt that Epcot Center of 1982 was on the edge of a technological revolution which contributed to it's WOW factor. Anyone here who's had the (mis)fortune of loading programs from a cassette tape onto an Apple II knows exactly what that era was like, and how far we have come. Thus the "introduction to technology" approach is not going to have the same impact. But that doesn't mean that the mission of Epcot is now irrelevant -- just that it's execution has to change it's focus. And it can be something as simple as changing the premise of "This is how we (as corporations) are creating the future" to "This is how you can shape the future". All the original topics of Epcot center are still relevant such as Energy, Health, Seas, Horticulture, Arts, Culture. It just takes Disney's commitment to pull things back into a cohesive statement. A unifying theme that we shape the future as a community would be a strong way to do that with many possibilities for it's application.

I think that there is room for Disney's characters in Epcot as long as it's done correctly. When I heard that Nemo & Friends were going to be introduced to The Seas pavilion, I was thinking that a ride-through attraction would be a wonderful way to introduce the themes of the pavilion in a streamlined way. The original pavilion had too many waiting areas and shuffling about from theater to hydrolator to seacabs, and was a bit austere in it's execution. But Disney missed an excellent opportunity when they shoehorned a Fantasyland-style reprisal of Finding Nemo into what could have been an exciting adventure exploring the seas with Mr Ray. The same goes for the overly simple "Where's Donald" theme of Grand Fiesta Tour. Disney's characters can be very effective in making the content of the shows approachable but Disney needs to realize that they cannot always be the focus of attention.

I think that both Eddie Sotto and Tony Baxter would be great together to reinvigorate Epcot. Eddie has a great sense of "shaking things up" with unconventional and fresh ideas and Tony has a great talent of bringing "heart" to his shows that resonates with what Disney represented long before Iger took charge. They would balance each other nicely. Both have an excellent sense of creating immersive environments and both seem to understand how to WOW guests. Epcot was designed to be an epic adventure and the mindset of bringing that to the shows needs to prevail. They also understand that people are no less sophisticated than back in 1982 and they will be able to develop attractions that can reach their audience on many levels.

I love this post, but I have a few disagreements with it. I don't think Disney characters belong in Epcot, except maybe in Character Spot, and definitely not on the rides. Every replacement of an original ride with IP in Epcot has been a disaster, and most of them took away from the central theme of the pavilion.

Would the modern audience "buy in" to new characters (such as a Buzzy or Figment) that they have no previous connection to?

The "modern audience" had no connection to The Snow Queen before Frozen. If the public could massively enjoy a movie featuring a new cast of characters and a new story instead of just the rehashing Hollywood thinks we want, then why couldn't Disney build a great revival of Journey Into Imagination or Cranium Command? Because they're not "Disney?"

What types of experiences could be created that ultimately would 1) entertain and amaze, 2) get them off their phones/tablets for enough time to appreciate the full experience and be immersed in the story and 3) get people into the park gates?

You can't guarantee number two, no matter how hard you'll try. As for the other two, Disney thinks now that playing it safe is the only option. What happened to the daring Disney of the 60s through 90s? Where's the Disney that brought us original attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, and Horizons? Either dead or retired. The third (or is it fourth?) generation of Imagineers are here and they're focused on one thing: satisfying Iger, the IP Overlord.

This massive clusterlove that is today's Walt Disney World is just sad. I wonder why there's an armchair Imagineering outbreak right now? It's because Disney doesn't know how to do their own concepts justice. I might even catch a little of that fever.

Now to ponder your question. To amaze in this generation, where almost any piece of information is accessible in minutes or even seconds, is a truly difficult feat. Ellen's Energy Adventure isn't as fun (not that it ever was) if people search the answers to Jeopardy! on their phones. An EPCOT dark ride needs to provide insight on the topic rather than just a research project on it, especially in the age of Wikipedia.

The issue is however, that Disney could spend hundreds of millions on creating rides which showcase technology, but the follow up to a kids excitement and wonder of what they have seen would not be another trip to Epcot, it would be getting out their phone and looking things up on the Internet. It's a major cultural shift that Disney just can't compete with.

It's been mentioned on here a few times and in various other places, but I truly believe they should give up on the 'future world' tag and focus 'Discovery'. The very notion of future world just sets it up for a fail from the off, when you have 80s/90s relics like UOE headlining the park.

I personally don't mind character tie ins if done well. I cannot for the life of me see what Nemo adds to the party; but a trackless dark ride exploring and encouraging thought about the depths of imagination and emotion using the characters of inside out? Sign me up! An innovations celebrating and promoting design entrepreneurs, celebrating individual success stories of the past, told with the help of Big Hero 6...it could work whilst adding to the pavilion it is in..if done well. This will sound like hell to many people, but Epcot in my opinion can no longer be what it used to be and I don't think it's all Disneys fault.

EPCOT does need to abandon the "Future" World concept, but how could they rename it? Gardens of Wonder?

Almost every ride at EPCOT Center could have survived until now, and would be sorely needed in an educational park. Dreamfinder was like a "host" of a "documentary" if you will. An imaginative David Attenborough or some other notable type, taking us on a vivid journey into the wonders of imagination and creativity. I've said before that each pavilion needs an insight, some reason to ride instead of just using Google or Wikipedia, and if I made my own EPCOT that's what I would focus on. An update for the modern age, if I had my own EPCOT, would maybe touch upon how different arts are created. Music, paintings, sculpture, film, television, animation, even websites. Kids should be inspired to do great things. ImageWorks is also so needed. Kids need a creative outlet, and they would especially want one after riding a rejuvenated Journey into Imagination. The original ImageWorks was brilliant (but I can only experience it through video, never got the chance to go to EPCOT before it closed), but it's location wouldn't work in this day and age with the "go to the next ride unless there's something interesting in front of me" behavior of guests. The current location will do, just put in some better distractions.

The Seas, oh... The Seas. The Seas isn't a necessary pavilion to have, but it's nice. Please don't change the aquarium, but instead of Nemo, we need the original concept as planned. Neptune guiding us through the ocean and its wildlife would be just swell. I would love to travel to a coral reef, a kelp forest, or a deep trench. What would be the insight of a future Seas pavilion? How about sending the message of not wasting water, or maybe anti-pollution. There's a lot of bozos out there who just outright deny global warming is happening, but it has tangible effects that you can see for yourself. The Great Barrier Reef in Australia is a prime example. It's turning white. There are tons of possibilities, but please don't be preachy.

The main theme of The Land before Soarin' opened was agriculture and, due to the sponsor, food products. This day and age I think it's more appropriate to tell how to eat healthily than to tell how food is made... so, if I made my own EPCOT, I would split The Land in two pavilions, a geography pavilion similar to the original concept, and the other pavilion would be like a more health-oriented Wonders of Life. We know what the message of a health pavilion would be, but what would a geography pavilion teach? Acceptance of other cultures, possibly (this could work wonders with World Showcase!), or perhaps another environmental message. It would get boring after a while, but it's possibly the most important lesson that the next generation or two needs to learn... oh, and Circle of Life needs to die already.

World Showcase. An excellent idea. Let's showcase various cultures of the world. Seems simple, but execution is very important. I take issue with the selection of countries. Five countries are dedicated to Germanic cultures (Canada, United Kingdom, United States, Germany, and Norway). There's eleven countries, but only four continents are represented, and there are some civilizations/cultures that definitely need a representation. These include the Slavic cultures (examples include the Poles, Russians, and the people of Former Yugoslavia), the Sub-Saharan cultures (examples include the Zulu, Yoruba, and even the Malagasy), the Indian culture, and the Southeast Asian cultures (examples include the Malays, the Javanese, and Khmers). Some people will say, no doubt, that you can search on the Internet for info about these countries and cultures. There's a difference between taking a vacation and browsing a Wikipedia article. For the love of God, please don't put IPs in the countries, either!

Communication is a very important topic in today's interconnected world. An update to Spaceship Earth must touch more upon the Digital Revolution. The topic of history is very dominant in Spaceship Earth, but let's keep non-communication related info in another ride. A history ride would be very successful! Horizons was great, marvellous and all that, but it was doomed to fail. Talking about the future is a very 20th--century thing. We need the entire park to inspire us to shape the future. Maybe Horizons and the history ride could be merged. Let's talk about the replacement, Mission: SPACE. Space is something that should be reignited in the public consciousness. Images from the Hubble telescope still hold the public eye and the Mars rovers have been very publicized, but NASA has stopped the Space Shuttle program, and the International Space Station is almost 20 years old, and set to cease operations in eight years. This is one of the few themes where a simulator could actually be executed well, but you need a separate entrance and another attraction to attract the non-simulator crowd to get to exhibits. The Blue Marble is a compelling image, one that speaks of fragility but also of strength. A WALL-E ride in this pavilion? Inexcusable. Here's why: the movie fits the theme of the pavilion, but it's still an IP. If you want a WALL-E ride, you're going to get a ride about WALL-E falling in love with EVE, not about WALL-E discovering the wonders of the cosmos. Cosmos, cosmos, cosmos... Neil DeGrasse Tyson anyone?

On the topic of thrilling rides, we get to Test Track, which is inappropriate, but the park has too many dark rides otherwise. Transporation... it isn't actually that essential to the park. I just don't think it fits in. Energy on the other hand, definitely fits in, but also definitely needs an update. Okay, Disney, rides become dated quickly, but a cheap factual update every twenty years will not kill you, especially if you ditch the celebrities (they date the ride and make it harder to stay current decades after they are introduced into it). The update should include the alternative forms of energy that have come forward in the past three decades, such as solar energy and wind energy. Nuclear energy and hydroelectric energy could be worth talking about, but out of the EPCOT themes, energy is the most dull in my, and a lot of other people's, books.

These are just my ideas. I know, I'm being way too optimistic and armchair-y, and this post is too long already, blah, blah blah.

 

[Wikkler]

"You won't see any of the famous and beloved characters at Epcot." Bring me back to the 1980s. I would endure the synthesizer uprising just to visit the golden era of EPCOT Center again.

Here's an embarrassing secret. I actually really love 80's synthesizers.

 

[Captain Neo]

Wait...whats wrong with 80s synthesizers?

 

[marni1971]

The future is happening too fast. There is no staying in front of it anymore.

Time to reimagine future world into something else. How about E-Ticket Land.

EPCOT Center looked - and still could - futuristic.

But there was a whole lot more to it. If you want to comment like that apply it to Tomorrowland circa 1993.

 

[SW_matt]

I wouldn't mind IP featuring heavily in the park as without a doubt IP doesn't have to be at odds with education. For example inside out could really work well with an imagination/mind/psych orientated attraction as one example.

The issue I can see with an EPCOT in the same ilk as the old is that innovation happens at such a rate at the moment that attractions would be obsolete even before being built- there needs to be a focus on exhibits etc that aren't as fixed and are more readily changeable with low cost/time input.

I think that science and discovery can still appeal to the masses- I visited the Science museum in London a while back and it was very much packed to the rafters with old and young alike!

 

[Brer Panther]

Oh, so at first glance, it's NOT a summary of the movie, but a ride about literally nothing because their world is back to normal, and therefore there's nothing at stake. Neat

There literally is no storyline. They try to weave in some "Winter in Summer Festival" (I think Phineas and Ferb already beat Anna and Elsa to it) thing, but that honestly doesn't sound like it would make for a fun dark ride.

 

[ford91exploder]

That has to be the most eloquent description I've seen of the soul, scope and vision of the original Epcot -- and the spirit that is missing from today's Disney Company.

It should be on a billboard outside the TDO Admin building, where every suit can see it as they come to work.

Somehow I imagine Burbank to be more like the nest of the Red Electroids in Buckaroo Banzai with Iger replacing Lord Whorfin exhorting the suits to work work work. When do we buy all the stock. Real soon now...

 

[wdisney9000]

now let's all go sign up for cupcake parties for just $69 a person!

Dont forget you also get lemonade! We should probly call Becky with the good hair....

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Somehow I imagine Burbank to be more like the nest of the Red Electroids in Buckaroo Banzai with Iger replacing Lord Whorfin exhorting the suits to work work work. When do we buy all the stock. Real soon now...

A nerd cage fight ... they 'fight' until someone breaks a pencil point or a calculator.

 

[ford91exploder]

I wouldn't mind IP featuring heavily in the park as without a doubt IP doesn't have to be at odds with education. For example inside out could really work well with an imagination/mind/psych orientated attraction as one example.

The issue I can see with an EPCOT in the same ilk as the old is that innovation happens at such a rate at the moment that attractions would be obsolete even before being built- there needs to be a focus on exhibits etc that aren't as fixed and are more readily changeable with low cost/time input.

I think that science and discovery can still appeal to the masses- I visited the Science museum in London a while back and it was very much packed to the rafters with old and young alike!

One of my favorite shows ever was 'Connections' obviously it was from the BBC but it showed the evolution of technology through history and how a ancient concept became an integral part of today's technology That's a concept which can work in Epcot as its extensible as tech evolves add to the exhibit. One episode noted that the first digital transmission of data was in 1800s France where they used a optical signalling system to transmit messages

 

[Brad Bishop]

One of my favorite shows ever was 'Connections' obviously it was from the BBC but it showed the evolution of technology through history and how a ancient concept became an integral part of today's technology That's a concept which can work in Epcot as its extensible as tech evolves add to the exhibit. One episode noted that the first digital transmission of data was in 1800s France where they used a optical signalling system to transmit messages

"Connections", was awesome. Another good one is, "The Secret Life of Machines".

 

[JohnD]

Nothing to add but that Future World in particular is being heavily looked at.

We can only hope. I've answered several surveys while walking through Epcot or sent to me in an email after my trip and every time I say that FW needs work, especially Imagination and Energy. Will they finally listen?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

We can only hope. I've answered several surveys while walking through Epcot or sent to me in an email after my trip and every time I say that FW needs work, especially Imagination and Energy. Will they finally listen?

I also got a survey asking about Epcot.

During my last trip. In 2013.

 

[JohnD]

I also got a survey asking about Epcot.

During my last trip. In 2013.

Exactly. Sigh. . .

 

[doctornick]

Oh, so at first glance, it's NOT a summary of the movie, but a ride about literally nothing because their world is back to normal, and therefore there's nothing at stake. Neat

IMHO it's a good thing that it's not a "summary of the movie" -- those book report rides are a boring premise. And I don't know why something has to "be at stake" for a ride to be interesting. What is wrong with a ride where we experience the world of Frozen in a relaxed manner?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

IMHO it's a good thing that it's not a "summary of the movie" -- those book report rides are a boring premise. And I don't know why something has to "be at stake" for a ride to be interesting. What is wrong with a ride where we experience the world of Frozen in a relaxed manner?

It sounds like the Pandora/Avatar boat ride is going to be a relaxing journey down the river of the foreign land. I'm hoping so, because that sounds rather nice.

I'm with you- not crazy about the "peril" idea- it just seems so forced. Book report rides are definitely worse and hold little interest for me. Especially when you know the movie by heart, then the ride craps the bed (looking at you, TLM)...

 

[Sonconato]

Here's an embarrassing secret. I actually really love 80's synthesizers.

Kind of gave it away when your avatar is Kraftwerk. I love them too. Long live Florian and Ralf!

 

[jt04]

EPCOT Center looked - and still could - futuristic.

But there was a whole lot more to it. If you want to comment like that apply it to Tomorrowland circa 1993.

I loved Future World when it opened. Time and circumstances has made the concept obsolete. That is just the cold reality.

Time to reimagine. IMO.

 

[Andrew_Ryan]

I loved Future World when it opened. Time and circumstances has made the concept obsolete. That is just the cold reality.

Time to reimagine. IMO.

I would argue that a lack of effort on Disney's part is what has made it obsolete. Does a new theater for a flight simulator somehow make it more contemporary?