Hearing news of a monorail crash today.

[peachykeen]

I believe from the damage there had to be a good amount of momentum. I also heard, and I got this second hand so can't confirm that there was someone in the cab affected.

I heard the same.

 

[s8film40]

They gave you more information than "there was an accident" They actually told you what caused the accident. I am going by what has been reported rather than silly conspiracy theories.

Well how about we call it misleading rather than misinformation? If I call my insurance company after an accident and tell them I "made contact" with another vehicle I don't think they would expect to see the front 4 feet of my car destroyed.

 

[flynnibus]

They gave you more information than "there was an accident" They actually told you what caused the accident. I am going by what has been reported rather than silly conspiracy theories.

You say 'conspiracy' - I say 'potential causes'. The difference is the engineers talk about what 'might' have happened or 'could' happen.. while loonies jump to conclusions on what DID happen. Usually the extremists go just as far to depend stupid actions too...

 

[Andrew C]

You say 'conspiracy' - I say 'potential causes'. The difference is the engineers talk about what 'might' have happened or 'could' happen.. while loonies jump to conclusions on what DID happen. Usually the extremists go just as far to depend stupid actions too...

Going over potential causes based on a photo rather than going with the logical one Disney already presented tells me you have no trust in them being honest about what occurred. Which is fine. It's none of my business why you don't trust them to be truthful here. I'm sure you have your reasons.

 

[Rteetz]

Going over potential causes based on a photo rather than going with the logical one Disney already presented tells me you have no trust in them being honest about what occurred. Which is fine. It's none of my business why you don't trust them to be truthful here. I'm sure you have your reasons.

I can't see why Disney would admit their test went bad or their trains failed during a test, that's bad press. Disney giving this answer gives people a very good answer that most will believe. Disney is definitely not the most honest company out there.

 

[raven]

The 2009 monorail crash wasn't that long ago and any type of monorail "crash" is going to generate big news. Especially when the real reason for the 2009 crash was being hidden by Disney until they were ordered to release files, training manuals, logs, radio transmission items and other things not normally seen by the public.

 

[Nubs70]

Going over potential causes based on a photo rather than going with the logical one Disney already presented tells me you have no trust in them being honest about what occurred. Which is fine. It's none of my business why you don't trust them to be truthful here. I'm sure you have your reasons.

As engineers, first explanations are rarely the full explanation. It is only after dispassionately going through possible causes does the truth reveal itself. It is called root cause analysis.

 

[Andrew C]

As engineers, first explanations are rarely the full explanation. It is only after dispassionately going through possible causes does the truth reveal itself. It is called root cause analysis.

Yep. Thanks for the education. I guess the question you should be asking then is why the bar failed. Ya know. Because we already know it did.

 

[Nubs70]

Yep. Thanks for the education. I guess the question you should be asking then is why the bar failed. Ya know. Because we already know it did.

Yup, that is why we have developed several scenarios. Now to see what it actually is.

 

[raven]

Uh. That is what companies do. When accidents or issues occur, only company spokespersons and PR people should be speaking to the public or the media.

Well then Disney shouldn't have been telling their CMs to say anything about it but it was confirmed by a member here on the boards that at the TTC they were telling guests "not to spread rumors about there being a monorail crash." That is indeed a Disney employee speaking to the public if you ask me. They should have been told to not speak about it or answer any questions about it but they didn't.

 

[Flalex72]

Well then Disney shouldn't have been telling their CMs to say anything about it but it was confirmed by a member here on the boards that at the TTC they were telling guests "not to spread rumors about there being a monorail crash." That is indeed a Disney employee speaking to the public if you ask me. They should have been told to not speak about it or answer any questions about it but they didn't.

They are told... it's covered in the first day of training. But when you have 70 000 employees, and something happens, slip ups occur. Those very employees likely thought they were doing the right thing, or what they had been trained to do. Not everyone acts rationally when things go wrong.

 

[Tom]

My issue is the amount of damage and travel into the cone shows either a ton of inertia.. or an impact at speed. A failure due to pushing doesn't sound right unless it was something like 'pushed, then train locked brakes' and then it just pushed into the cab when the tow hook couldn't take the load. Sounds plausible, if they would push a train.. but I don't know if they do that.

For train overtaking the tug.. the lack of distance between the tug and train when towing makes that one harder for me to believe there was enough energy there to make that kind of hit... unless it was something like the tug goes hard stop while moving at speed.. then train with inertia crushes in.

I hope someone gives us the real story...

I agree with your assessments. Granted, the nose cones are fiberglass and break away before hitting the frame, but for the tractor rails to reach the top of the train's windshield is a hard hit. Lots of momentum, either by train or tug.

It's fairly safe to say the train didn't accelerate into the tug, since the bus power SHOULD have been off. That, by default, means the tug caused the damage. We don't know why...did the train stop during a push? Did a push-bar break? Did the tug operator simply accelerate when he should have decelerated?

 

[GhostHost1000]

Wasting money isn't a magical elixir.

I could make a case they are wasting money everytime issues with the monorails happen too but you're right no one is gonna splurge to replace them all

 

[GhostHost1000]

Ok I'll bite. It could be possible they were testing the new automation and sensor braking system and it didn't work and the monorail slammed into the tow vehicle?

 

[imkrazy182]

I think it was just a botched tow job. I didn't think the tug goes out unless power is off to the line. Do we know yet if it was being pushed or pulled? I know pull is standard but if push, then that could cause the damage. Pushing, then snap, could cause the tug to shoot into the train with that force, especially if slight uphill.

 

[marni1971]

You don't think Thales is competent enough for a job like this?

Google Thales and Manchester Metrolink.

And the ensuing court proceedings.

 

[ford91exploder]

As engineers, first explanations are rarely the full explanation. It is only after dispassionately going through possible causes does the truth reveal itself. It is called root cause analysis.

Exactly and many of us are also involved in replication ie causing the SAME thing to happen only this time with device under test loaded up with instruments and cameras so that the failure can be thoroughly analyzed and a root cause determined and possibly parts, systems or processes redesigned to prevent the failure in the future.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Generally when testing a robot e-Stop system we've always used a breakaway barrier, Lightweight materials like fabric generally dont trigger impact sensors as they dont present enough resistance - though there should have been a optical/microwave sensor which triggered a stop before physical impact.

Silly us. We thought the automation would stop the monorail BEFORE there was an impact. If the stop only comes AFTER an impact, it seems to be kinda late, sort of like being a little bit pregnant. Your mention of an optical/microwave sensor seems to be appropriate. Maybe this whole automation project deserves a front to back re-think.

 

[flynnibus]

It's none of my business why you don't trust them to be truthful here. I'm sure you have your reasons.

Because I know Disney is a business - not my friend or family. The company's interests supercede our desire to know and understand everything about the company's operations and decisions. Disney will only disclose what it feels is necessary to make the noise go away and will put spin on things.

That isn't some agenda from me... that's f'ing common sense when dealing with corporate public relations.

 

[ABQ]

Only because I hadn't seen this pic in the thread yet, figured they'd cover it and move it after dark.