Hearing news of a monorail crash today.

[googilycub]

Things like tow cables or bars don't simply break under design loads, the fact that something like this failed speaks to a piece of equipment which should not have been in service due to wear or damage.

BS. As someone who has delt with broken drawbars, knuckles and draw heads more times than I can count, these things happen. I get that you have a sick need to bash Disney any chance you can get, however get your facts straight first.

 

[s8film40]

BS. As someone who has delt with broken drawbars, knuckles and draw heads more times than I can count, these things happen. I get that you have a need to bash Disney any chance you can get, however get your facts straight first.

Something safety related like this is typically and certainly should be extremely over engineered. Something like this breaking really isn't acceptable. Keep in mind if a train is unable to move and needs to be towed this is often when it is full of passengers. If this had happened for example with a fully loaded train and broke loose and coasted down a hill and collided with another train there would likely be a large number of fatalities. "These things happen" wouldn't quite cut it in that situation.

 

[ford91exploder]

BS. As someone who has delt with broken drawbars, knuckles and draw heads more times than I can count, these things happen. I get that you have a need to bash Disney any chance you can get, however get your facts straight first.

Sorry, yes those break mainly because the ARA is too cheap to require proper inspection, Simple fact metal does not break without warning it may not be visually apparent but with proper inspection techniques incipient failures can be detected and the parts taken out of service. It's why 'pigs' are run through pipelines so as to ensure the pipeline is not experiencing erosion or cracking.

It's why aircraft engine parts are examined with ultrasound and x-rays and because of this its been a long time since a commercial jet engine has had a compressor wheel blow up or a prop fly apart due to metal failure.

 

[googilycub]

Sorry, yes those break mainly because the ARA is too cheap to require proper inspection, /QUOTE]

Who is the ARA?

You would be suprised at what improper train handling can do to a perfectly good knuckle.

 

[googilycub]

Something safety related like this is typically and certainly should be extremely over engineered. Something like this breaking really isn't acceptable. Keep in mind if a train is unable to move and needs to be towed this is often when it is full of passengers. If this had happened for example with a fully loaded train and broke loose and coasted down a hill and collided with another train there would likely be a large number of fatalities. "These things happen" wouldn't quite cut it in that situation.

And no doubt it is "over engineered". What there needs to be is a fail safe, and it is kind of sad if there isn't.

Mechanics "ride the brakes" in the cockpit when an aircraft is being towed to the hanger, airbrakes on a passenger train automatically apply if there is a train separation and so on. Something like that needs to be in effect when towing the monorail.

 

[peachykeen]

Who is the ARA?

You would be suprised at what improper train handling can do to a perfectly good knuckle.

Knuckle! That's the word I was looking for. Towing a train up or down a hill is always nerve wracking because that's when the angle of tow bar changes and puts the most stress on the knuckle.

 

[raven]

So many people here drinking the Disney kool aid. And accident is an accident. It happened and there's no trying to hide it or explain it away. Usually monorail tests and evacuation drills are done over night, out of guests view. So for this to happen if front of guests view today then Disney telling their CMs to tell people to keep hush about it screams something is obviously wrong. Disney always over-compensates with guest service in these situations and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they are trying to hide their mistake. They try to deny there is a giant elephant in the room when everyone in a 100' radius can smell it.

 

[ford91exploder]

Who is the ARA?

You would be suprised at what improper train handling can do to a perfectly good knuckle.

American Railroad Association, Which became part of the AAR a long time ago. I meant to use AAR but ...

I actually am NOT surprised what improper train handling can do - I restore old tractors and I've seen parts stressed to far above design loads, And I have a friend who can break any piece of equipment known to man. His greatest recent achievement was to break of ALL the flails on a flail mower and break the PTO shaft at the same time!

I helped him put it back together again...

 

[Andrew C]

So many people here drinking the Disney kool aid. And accident is an accident. It happened and there's no trying to hide it or explain it away. Usually monorail tests and evacuation drills are done over night, out of guests view. So for this to happen if front of guests view today then Disney telling their CMs to tell people to keep hush about it screams something is obviously wrong. Disney always over-compensates with guest service in these situations and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they are trying to hide their mistake. They try to deny there is a giant elephant in the room when everyone in a 100' radius can smell it.

Uh. That is what companies do. When accidents or issues occur, only company spokespersons and PR people should be speaking to the public or the media. Otherwise misinformation can occur. This is standard practice that is not unique to Disney. And Disney did reach out to certain media outlets to explain what happened. Whether or not you choose to believe them is up to you.

 

[flynnibus]

easiest obstacle to place on the beamway is a tug or another monorail

But that's like testing your ferrari by driving it head on at another ferrari... instead of just putting something disposible in the way.... like a cardboard box.

And the other wild thing is.. where is the stop before the collision? This has to be something like a brake failure and not just a control problem. If you were doing a test, there would be a point where you'd expect the vehicle to stop... and if that point was passed without successful stop.. there would be another manual stop to prevent the test from going catastrophic. Both those points would be well before any impact threat.

I wouldn't be suprised if this was a failure that included the tug itself.. which has been a problem in the past as well.

 

[peachykeen]

But that's like testing your ferrari by driving it head on at another ferrari... instead of just putting something disposible in the way.... like a cardboard box.

And the other wild thing is.. where is the stop before the collision? This has to be something like a brake failure and not just a control problem. If you were doing a test, there would be a point where you'd expect the vehicle to stop... and if that point was passed without successful stop.. there would be another manual stop to prevent the test from going catastrophic. Both those points would be well before any impact threat.

I wouldn't be suprised if this was a failure that included the tug itself.. which has been a problem in the past as well.

I was mistaken earlier. Everything is pointing towards the tractor being attached to the train when whatever happened happened. Doesn't sound like it was a test, at least not in the sense of seeing if the Monorail stopped before it rammed the tractor.

 

[s8film40]

Uh. That is what companies do. When accidents or issues occur, only company spokespersons and PR people should be speaking to the public or the media. Otherwise misinformation can occur. This is standard practice that is not unique to Disney. And Disney did reach out to certain media outlets to explain what happened. Whether or not you choose to believe them is up to you.

Haha, a "monorail made contact with a tow vehicle", while true is probably the biggest piece of misinformation we've heard about this incident. As was said already the more Disney tries to cover something up the more you know there really is to it.

 

[flynnibus]

You would think they'd have someone on a kill switch to prevent the train from hitting anything, if something like a sensor failed.

Imagine a tug that was runaway... the monorail isn't the only powered thing on the track The tugs have rolled downhill into things.. and imagine if a tug at power ran into a stopped train because the tug's controls failed or were mishandled.

I'm coming into this late (and maybe there is more in the thread yet..) but based on the images so far.. I'd be more suspicious of something like that... the tug slamming into the train. The trains aren't ran in reverse under normal use anymore.. There wasn't anyone in the cab it seems.. so the train wasn't likely moving in that direction under power. And if it was moving that direction, due to automation testing... I find that highly unlikely given the sheer insanity of running the two vehicles at each other. No way they are that dumb.

Maybe it's something like the train was out for automation testing... stopped.. and the tug was sent out.. then the tug screwed up and slammed into the train. That would make all the stories we heard so far be compatible with each other..

 

[Andrew C]

Haha, a "monorail made contact with a tow vehicle", while true is probably the biggest piece of misinformation we've heard about this incident. As was said already the more Disney tries to cover something up the more you know there really is to it.

How is that misinformation? They did make contact. They also mentioned the tow hitch broke so I don't see what they are covering up. The only thing I see is that they are controlling the message going out to the media and public like any smart company would do.

 

[Nubs70]

But that's like testing your ferrari by driving it head on at another ferrari... instead of just putting something disposible in the way.... like a cardboard box.

And the other wild thing is.. where is the stop before the collision? This has to be something like a brake failure and not just a control problem. If you were doing a test, there would be a point where you'd expect the vehicle to stop... and if that point was passed without successful stop.. there would be another manual stop to prevent the test from going catastrophic. Both those points would be well before any impact threat.

I wouldn't be suprised if this was a failure that included the tug itself.. which has been a problem in the past as well.

Interesting, another possible mode of failure.

If tug brakes locked up, momentum of monorail strains tow bar, or attachment fixtures, to failure. Residual momentum launches monorail into tug.

 

[Nubs70]

How is that misinformation? They did make contact. They also mentioned the tow hitch broke so I don't see what they are covering up. The only thing I see is that they are controlling the message going out to the media and public like any smart company would do.

How? It's like saying "Car dinged up guard rail at Petty Driving Experience"

 

[flynnibus]

I believe in the philosophy that the simplest answer usually suffices.

That said, given that the tractor was intentionally on the rail, the power was likely off. It was likely sent out because Coral went down during the test, and could no longer operate under its own power.

And based on how far into the cab the tractor went, it would seem more likely that the tractor was pushing the train and either the train seized up (brakes locked) or a tow rod of some sort broke. The tractor is gas-powered, and would have kept driving into a train that no longer had any momentum or was stopped entirely.

My issue is the amount of damage and travel into the cone shows either a ton of inertia.. or an impact at speed. A failure due to pushing doesn't sound right unless it was something like 'pushed, then train locked brakes' and then it just pushed into the cab when the tow hook couldn't take the load. Sounds plausible, if they would push a train.. but I don't know if they do that.

For train overtaking the tug.. the lack of distance between the tug and train when towing makes that one harder for me to believe there was enough energy there to make that kind of hit... unless it was something like the tug goes hard stop while moving at speed.. then train with inertia crushes in.

I hope someone gives us the real story...

 

[s8film40]

How is that misinformation? They did make contact. They also mentioned the tow hitch broke so I don't see what they are covering up. The only thing I see is that they are controlling the message going out to the media and public like any smart company would do.

Yeah I get that they need to downplay this. If it wasn't for photos and information getting out they would be denying this even happened like they did with the last one. Using the words "made contact" sure it's accurate but there's a point where it just becomes comical. I mean all they had to do was say there was an accident during testing, no one was injured.

 

[Andrew C]

Yeah I get that they need to downplay this. If it wasn't for photos and information getting out they would be denying this even happened like they did with the last one. Using the words "made contact" sure it's accurate but there's a point where it just becomes comical. I mean all they had to do was say there was an accident during testing, no one was injured.

They gave you more information than "there was an accident" They actually told you what caused the accident. I am going by what has been reported rather than silly conspiracy theories.

 

[s8film40]

Imagine a tug that was runaway... the monorail isn't the only powered thing on the track The tugs have rolled downhill into things.. and imagine if a tug at power ran into a stopped train because the tug's controls failed or were mishandled.

I'm coming into this late (and maybe there is more in the thread yet..) but based on the images so far.. I'd be more suspicious of something like that... the tug slamming into the train. The trains aren't ran in reverse under normal use anymore.. There wasn't anyone in the cab it seems.. so the train wasn't likely moving in that direction under power. And if it was moving that direction, due to automation testing... I find that highly unlikely given the sheer insanity of running the two vehicles at each other. No way they are that dumb.

Maybe it's something like the train was out for automation testing... stopped.. and the tug was sent out.. then the tug screwed up and slammed into the train. That would make all the stories we heard so far be compatible with each other..

I believe from the damage there had to be a good amount of momentum. I also heard, and I got this second hand so can't confirm that there was someone in the cab affected.