Hearing news of a monorail crash today.

[ford91exploder]

Now I don't want to sound like a plant, but I hear it was a weather balloon.

Or swamp gas...

 

[Disone]

Still makes you wonder who is running this show , But I guess that's what happens when a CPA is making decisions an engineer would be making in the real world. Pre-Iger the monorail had a flawless safety record for decades, Post Iger at least 3 major crashes (major defined as damage to trainset taking longer than 30 days to repair and the death o

Even if they self-insure there is usually a reinsurance carrier who is on the hook for really large losses, Many companies self-insure to 1-10 million and reinsurance covers losses beyond that. BUT you still need to meet underwriting criteria.

Disney is self insured. They can and have handled losses far greater then 10 million. Even in the event of hurricane damage, WDW is self insured. Imagine the millions it would cost to have insurance, and why would you spend that needlessly when you can afford to cover your losses?

Interesting comment about Iger. Pre Iger they were just about 10 years old. Post Iger they are now older then the fleet they were designed to replace. He needs to step in. Maybe this will put the condition of the current fleet on his radar.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I believe in the philosophy that the simplest answer usually suffices.

That said, given that the tractor was intentionally on the rail, the power was likely off. It was likely sent out because Coral went down during the test, and could no longer operate under its own power.

And based on how far into the cab the tractor went, it would seem more likely that the tractor was pushing the train and either the train seized up (brakes locked) or a tow rod of some sort broke. The tractor is gas-powered, and would have kept driving into a train that no longer had any momentum or was stopped entirely.

Or, the tractor was pulling the train, stopped for some reason, and the train's momentum caused it to rear-end the tractor. Perhaps it was coming down the hill and the train overtook the tractor.

One way or another, something was obviously not thought completely through. They've towed trains hundreds of times, but never when an automation system was supposedly in charge. And if they were pushing the train, rather than pulling, physics is not in their favor.

Regardless, a very costly mistake, and likely a big setback in the automation trials, since I don't believe every train has been outfitted yet, right? Wasn't it just a couple trains that had the full computer system installed? With Coral now out of service, this severely limits their testing abilities.

The new working theory (as I'm waiting on a few calls to confirm it) is that the tow cable broke and the monorail, unpowered, ran into the tug.

Which is a ridiculously simple answer and makes a lot of sense, much more than automation sensors and other fun testing things.

 

[Disone]

The new working theory (as I'm waiting on a few calls to confirm it) is that the tow cable broke and the monorail, unpowered, ran into the tug.

Which is a ridiculously simple answer and makes a lot of sense, much more than automation sensors and other fun testing things.

Agree. Still, an indirect result of an ageing fleet. They they were so old, they would not need to be towed nearly as much. So much now that we now have to worry about the condition of the towing equipment. sigh.....

 

[ford91exploder]

The new working theory (as I'm waiting on a few calls to confirm it) is that the tow cable broke and the monorail, unpowered, ran into the tug.

Which is a ridiculously simple answer and makes a lot of sense, much more than automation sensors and other fun testing things.

Things like tow cables or bars don't simply break under design loads, the fact that something like this failed speaks to a piece of equipment which should not have been in service due to wear or damage.

 

[ford91exploder]

Agree. Still, an indirect result of an ageing fleet. They they were so old, they would not need to be towed nearly as much. So much now that we now have to worry about the condition of the towing equipment. sigh.....

But good maintenance means that the towing rig is also in good condition, With the lack of love seen on the trains themselves, The tug and ancillary equipment would be the red headed stepchild when it comes to maintenance support.

Let's face it nearly EVERYTHING wrong with the monorail is the direct or indirect result of deferred maintenance.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Things like tow cables or bars don't simply break under design loads, the fact that something like this failed speaks to a piece of equipment which should not have been in service due to wear or damage.

IDK, dont ask me the why, I'm worried about the what.

I'm just circling back on the what because it looks like bad information got out here (partially my fault, partially what my sources were told) and I don't like putting out bad information.

 

[s8film40]

The new working theory (as I'm waiting on a few calls to confirm it) is that the tow cable broke and the monorail, unpowered, ran into the tug.

Which is a ridiculously simple answer and makes a lot of sense, much more than automation sensors and other fun testing things.

Just to clarify they don't use cables they use bars. Judging from the damage and tractor/monorail collisions I've seen in the past there was good amount of momentum involved here so this sounds correct to me. Also lines up with what I'm hearing as well.

 

[ford91exploder]

IDK, dont ask me the why, I'm worried about the what.

I'm just circling back on the what because it looks like bad information got out here (partially my fault, partially what my sources were told) and I don't like putting out bad information.

Understand perfectly but it the way it seems at least is there was a failure during automation test with Coral leaving it dead on the beam, then in the haulback there was an accident (crash) towing it due to apparent equipment failure or pilot error or a combination of both.

 

[Clamman73]

If tug was pulling the monorail and the tow bar broke or became unhitched:
The tug would accelerate at the same time the monorail would decelerate, therefore no crash.
If tug operator panicked and hit the brakes, yes their would be a crash. A pretty good crash due to the kinetic energy of a moving monorail.

So in the tug operator handbook it says...

-If tow cable/bar should break, physics is on your side, but other things can happen, so don't worry, we have spare noses for the monorails anyway.

 

[ford91exploder]

Just to clarify they don't use cables they use bars. Judging from the damage and tractor/ monorail collisions I've seen in the past there was good amount of momentum involved here so this sounds correct to me. Also lines up with what I'm hearing as well.

That's even worse because if the bar failed it probably means that it has not had a metallurgical inspection for some time.

 

[s8film40]

That's even worse because if the bar failed it probably means that it has not had a metallurgical inspection for some time.

I'm guessing there is a possibility that the bar didn't necessarily break in half or something like we might imagine based on this information. It could have broken at the connection points on either end or possibly not attached correctly, that seems more likely to me. Who knows though there's a lot of stress on that thing pulling/pushing a train.

 

[Nubs70]

Which is a ridiculously simple answer and makes a lot of sense, much more than automation sensors and other fun testing things.

But the activity of sitting down and listing out potential hypotheses is so undervalued.

I recently went through a hindenburgh event with a customer. Customer spent 3 days pointing their finger at me as I am gathering data to figure what happened (as they don't bother to gather data). After sitting down for 1 hour with customer, corporate engineers, and my company, we discovered the customer had shot themselves in the foot with poor workmanship. Would have been nice to sit down at the beginning for it would have saved me from putting in 200 hours in 2 weeks.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Just to clarify they don't use cables they use bars. Judging from the damage and tractor/monorail collisions I've seen in the past there was good amount of momentum involved here so this sounds correct to me. Also lines up with what I'm hearing as well.

Well at least thats good.

Prime example of how breaking news information changes as things calm down.

 

[peachykeen]

When I was there and something similar happened it was not the tow bar itself that broke, but the "clamp" on the train itself failed and opened back up which released the tow bar, which caused the tractor to accelerate into the cab (the train was being pushed). No idea if that's what happened today but it's happened before.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal...m#/media/File:WDW-Monorail-Work-Tractor-3.jpg

 

[note2001]

Haven't we seen this happen before with another monorail (lime green?) bumping a tow, but the damage was no where as bad - I believe it was even in about same location this one happened in, oddly enough (is there a downgrade in this location?)

 

[Nubs70]

That's even worse because if the bar failed it probably means that it has not had a metallurgical inspection for some time.

It depends on the point of failure. It could be the bar or the connections. Also, was the bar properly installed?

But Tow Tug SOP in case of tow bar failure, FLOOR IT!!!

 

[note2001]

When I was there and something similar happened it was not the tow bar itself that broke, but the "clamp" on the train itself failed and opened back up which released the tow bar, which caused the tractor to accelerate into the cab (the train was being pushed). No idea if that's what happened today but it's happened before.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System#/media/File:WDW-Monorail-Work-Tractor-3.jpg

Thank you, that's the one I was thinking about.

 

[ford91exploder]

Thank you, that's the one I was thinking about.

Sad thing about that picture is that its been a long time since the tugs looked that good

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'd say order a dozen completely new modern day design monorails - prices keep going up I'm sure they could pay for it and it be cheaper than all the lawsuits and freebies they have to give away from monorail "issues"

Wasting money isn't a magical elixir.