All with greatly limited dates and blackouts. Did you see the first post in this thread? Very limited dates...
They always have blackout dates, but yes, the overall windows have been slightly shorter recently. I still wouldn't consider it a substantial reduction of discounts, as he threatened.
Prohibit you from renting a car? LOL - DME just makes renting a car less attractive financially...
Other Disney Dining plans existed long before the DDP - ALL had the same intent, to keep you on property - they just hadn't found the right price point. "Food and Fun" was one name; the Dream Maker Silver plan was another version.... the DDP, both paid and free, in coordination with MYW just happened to hit the sweet spot...and DME helped keep you on property as you pointed out.
I was looking for the word "discourage" but never went back to edit that part of the post.
And yes, they did indeed offer "dining plans" in the past, but they were poorly marketed. If you book a vacation to WDW nowadays - be it directly with Disney or through a travel agent - you have to be a complete loon to not at least know the Dining Plans exist. To take it a step further, dining at WDW, in general, has been promoted in an obscenely greater manner than in the days pre-DDP. It used to be, "Oh yeah, you can also eat at WDW, and if you want, you can use one of these pre-paid plans." Now, it's, "Which dining plan would you like to add to your room/ticket booking? You do realize WDW has hundreds of restaurants, right?"
I'm going to assume that prohibit was simply a poor word choice.
Yup - see above
logical but a little off. We are all seeing effect and assuming cause. It is all about AVERAGE. Everyone who pay $400 for a room a the contemporary is paying some of the costs of the people who pay $250. When they look at the numbers they look at average guest bill, ticket etc. Every time you use a coupon in a store you are paying less and the item is slightly inflated to others to cover that discount you received. Price increases are designed to move the average cost per guest.
Ok, I accept your corrected logic. WDW's Dining Plans and room rates can be likened to Kohls (the department store, for those who haven't heard of it). Their rack rates are inflated beyond imagination, but almost every item in the store is always on sale or on clearance or discounted via a coupon or ad. If you go to Kohls and pay the sticker price, you're a flat out sucker. The same can almost be said for guests who pay full rack rate for their room and dining (except that there are many guests who flat out can only go in the summer, when there are no discounts and everything is peak rate - those folks aren't suckers, just unfortunate).
Many feel that we are already there. Personally it is 100% a convenience factor for me. I think it is funny how people will pay Deluxe hotel rates, concierge and valet parking but feel there is no value to the convenience of the dining plan. I would be even willing to pay 5-10% more for the convenience. When I did the math for this trip I set the threshold of do I get it or don't I as "If it is close or over a bit"
Me too. I place a value in the convenience, because I value my time. With the online dining system, making my ADRs really isn't time consuming. And we already plan our trips down to the minute (because we're those kinds of people), so planning around dinner is no problem. Anything I can do to make my time during the trip easier and care-free, I'll do. Knowing I can open the menu and order ANY entree I want, regardless of the price, is enough of a value for me to buy the plan (all while I know up front that if I don't work the system, it'll work me).
And there lies the untalked about profit machine. So far we have not really touched on this point. How much goes unused? The value (if you insist on looking at it strictly from a $ point of view) cannot be pre-calculated, you have to look at it AFTER you have finished your trip. Only then does the scoreboard tell the truth. Disney is Hot, crowded and has lots of shinny things to keep us occupied. Sitting at home looking a menus picking out what to eat for a trip many months away in a completely different environment is likely to result in a tough time sticking to a plan. I have no numbers but I would imagine that many options, snacks and credits go unused. If the dining plan is a 10% value if maximized, but 15% of the credits go unused then Disney actually makes MORE money on the dining plan than OOP. I find this scenario likely, but I have no proof of it.
Unused credits probably amount to an enormous quantity, I would surmise. We don't fall victim of that, because we'll go stock up on snacks or drinks at the hotel gift shop before hopping on DME (if we have any credits left). And we don't dare have a TS or QS credit left over. But, thousands of guests do, and they're losing big time, while Disney is winning.
The most untrue thing in your entire post. I liked your post, it was full of good points and well through out, however facts are facts and conclusions are opinion. No doubt all of our conclusions are opinion based on our best guesses from what we understand in business and what we know of Disney, but in the end facts are a lot harder to come by. Nothing I have typed is fact, just my opinion on how I see it working.
I tried to leave my conclusions vague enough that they could be interpreted as fact
I didn't quote numbers or statistics, because then I'd be WAY off, but the principles are all true. Disney created the DDP to keep us on property, and no matter how the plan is used by any one guest, Disney is making money.
As for the quality/quantity of food, yeah, that's probably hearsay - and opinion...but not my opinion. I, for one, have never found a TS meal to be less appealing or filling than any previous trip - and I like to think I know my way around food. Sure, the price of the food goes up, while the quantity doesn't, but I haven't seen it going the other direction.
Exactly.
But good luck overcoming the "sheep" mentality that has formed with the DDP.
A person looking to justify their choices will figure out a way to do so. I fear you're beating your head against a wall.
I'm definitely one of the sheep, but at least I don't have blinders on. I know what I'm signing up for, and I know - to the penny - how it affects my bottom line. But yet, I still go for it :lol:
I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think the ADR's should be discontinued, as well as free dining. Both gone. They can still offer a dining plan at a good price if they want, but not free. I think maybe a daily fastpass type system would be in order, or a cell phone call or alert about 30 minutes before they can seat you if you sign up. Everybody who enters the park that day should get the same chance to eat at one of the restaurants without doing hours of research at home 6 months in advance. And restore the menus to make each restaurant unique and something worthwhile. Ok end of rant.
I don't think ADRs should be discontinued, just as I wish local restaurants would still take reservations. There's nothing worse than waiting 45-60 minutes just to eat dinner. That's wasted time. Do I need to know where I'm eating 6 months ahead of time? No. But maybe 60-90 would be OK. And still, I'd like to see them reserve 10-15% of the tables for walk-ins or same-day reservations.
I also want to add that the value of the DDP has fallen by a factor of more than half of what it once was in the past 6 - 7 years. Not only have the prices of the your meal gone up substantially, the DDP has lost the appetizer and the included tip that wasw part of the package up until 2006. During that time the cost of the plan has also gone from $35.99 - $45.99. So losing a $7.00 - $10.00 appetizer and a approx $7.00 tip and add in the price increase that is up to a $27.00 increase for less of a meal. In order to get value out of the money spent to purchase the DDP today you have to plan your meals very carfully.
I have not quite grabbed on the convienence of having the DDP.
- You still have to make ADR's
- You still have to plan months in advance to get a seat in any popular restaurants
- You still have to carry money or some form of payment to the restaurant
The only thing I guess I can think of is that people can pay for the food months in advance, which to me I rather keep the money in my pocket until I need to spend it.
Your bullet points are valid. However, as I mentioned above, I don't mind making ADRs, especially with the online system. Now, if you're booking something that requires a CC hold or is a dinner show, that's another thing (calling Disney Dining is one of the most dreaded activities in this household).
We also put a lot of effort into pre-planning, but that's our personality. Most people probably don't like planning their trips around dinner, or calculating the total bill for each of their meals before the trip, then going to the bank to get the EXACT number of bills to leave cash tips at each restaurant :lookaroun
