Guardians of the Galaxy coming to Energy Pavilion at Epcot

[flyerjab]

Walt Disney's idea for EPCOT was abandoned in the 1970s.

Just keep in mind that EPCOT as Walt Disney envisioned it was going to be a planned community (not theme park) where Walt retained near-dictatorial control over its residents.

Not exactly my idea of the makings of an awesome theme park.

I have to agree with your sentiment on this. People always talk about what Walt would have thought about EPCOT. Well, although there were plans to have a theme park within the confines of the Florida Project, everyone on here knows what EPCOT was really supposed to be. Walt was always such a forward-thinking, visionary type person that what the Florida Project would ultimately have become (if it were even a possibility) would have been drastically different.

And yes, as wonderful as it all sounded at the time coming from this seemingly benevolent and wise man on screen, I would not have wanted to have lived in Walt's EPCOT. It would have been neat to visit, but that would be it for me.

For me, I think that the real problem with Epcot is that the Imagineers totally outdid themselves with the level of theming in that park, basing FW on concepts instead of having movie-based attractions. It was amazing in its heyday but would be a challenge to maintain decade-over-decade. Not saying it would be impossible, just a HUGE challenge that I could see a lot of people not wanting any part of.

 

[montyz81]

So, when it comes to EPCOT, the existing EPCOT was never what Walt Disney envisioned. Those who defend the EPCOT of the 1980s (which I found rather boring as a twentysomething) are really defending the ideas of those who followed Walt and his brother Roy. It's a bit of a red herring to use Walt's quotes about EPCOT when EPCOT as it exists either today (or as it existed in the 1980s) is not at all "Walt's EPCOT".

As I said, I get that. Who's to say, assuming Walt was alive into the 80s, that when the plans came to the execution stage, Epcot wouldn't be much more then what it was in 1982? I guess what my point was, the folks that planned and built it used these ideals and applied it to a theme park, therefore I feel that every one of those quotes do apply. My entire point wasn't how much of a dictator Walt was, it was to take that concept that Walt came up with as well as what was eventually built and use the guiding principles as proof that the current WDC has ignored what the park was built for in the first place. If you found the park boring back then, I am guessing you can be lumped in with everyone else in the early 80's that didn't care to find out what the park was really about. I was 12 when i went in 1983 and not one bit of that park was lost on me. It played right into my wheelhouse. If that original concept was cultivated, the park could have been ground zero for all those wanting to highlight and showcase their own new technology. Now it is just a mess that focus' only on making money instead of being a showcase while making the company money like it was in 1983.

 

[DisneyJayL]

Walt Disney, for example, wanted total control over who lived in this EPCOT community, with Walt retaining all land ownership. Really, it's not much different than today's Walt Disney World where its "residents" are hand-picked by The Walt Disney Company.

With such authority Walt could, for example, expel any resident he found undesirable. In other words, don't follow Walt's rules and find yourself kicked out of "his" EPCOT community.

We think of Walt Disney as this fatherly figure who used to be invited into everyone's living room every week, almost an "Uncle Walt". When to came to paying customers, Walt was very conscious. However, when it came to his employees, Walt was dictatorial.

Walt wanted EPCOT to be a Utopian community that was "Utopian" by doing things his way. Dissent would not be tolerated.

At least, that's my take on what I've read.

So, when it comes to EPCOT, the existing EPCOT was never what Walt Disney envisioned. Those who defend the EPCOT of the 1980s (which I found rather boring as a twentysomething) are really defending the ideas of those who followed Walt and his brother Roy. It's a bit of a red herring to use Walt's quotes about EPCOT when EPCOT as it exists either today (or as it existed in the 1980s) is not at all "Walt's EPCOT".

This is a paragraph of sound logic to me. I hope Guardians comes. EPCOT needs a little pop to it. You can still have futuristic things in this park. I see no issue of it coming other than a little "butthurtiness" from a few people. I want this park to remain relevant. This is one way to go about things. Just my honest opinion on it.

 

[RoysCabin]

I think a key part of the frustration is that, as difficult as it could have been to adequately maintain EPCOT Center as it was (with updates for technology and what have you), it still stuck out by sheer uniqueness.

For some, I think this created a sense that each park could be very distinct from one another, all while still having a few common Disney threads running through them. Did this make EPCOT the "adult" park? Perhaps it did, but it still offered something different to vary the vacation up (and, make no mistake, there are tons of kids who loved EPCOT Center, regardless).

A move toward IP-heavy reliance, sadly, knocks some of that out, and it's something I personally hope Disney gets wary about regarding a long term set of diminishing returns on over reliance on that. I'm not saying that the experiences you'll have at an Avatar themed area would be the same as a Marvel themed area, but it's still something made with a similar mindset of recreating familiar space, characters, and moments in a way that goes far beyond the broader theming WED Enterprise was more noted for. A vacation in a more diverse Disney World, meanwhile, offers different sets of expectations and aesthetics that bring variety to the experience.

 

[danlb_2000]

I think a key part of the frustration is that, as difficult as it could have been to adequately maintain EPCOT Center as it was (with updates for technology and what have you), it still stuck out by sheer uniqueness.

For some, I think this created a sense that each park could be very distinct from one another, all while still having a few common Disney threads running through them. Did this make EPCOT the "adult" park? Perhaps it did, but it still offered something different to vary the vacation up (and, make no mistake, there are tons of kids who loved EPCOT Center, regardless).

A move toward IP-heavy reliance, sadly, knocks some of that out, and it's something I personally hope Disney gets wary about regarding a long term set of diminishing returns on over reliance on that. I'm not saying that the experiences you'll have at an Avatar themed area would be the same as a Marvel themed area, but it's still something made with a similar mindset of recreating familiar space, characters, and moments in a way that goes far beyond the broader theming WED Enterprise was more noted for. A vacation in a more diverse Disney World, meanwhile, offers different sets of expectations and aesthetics that bring variety to the experience.

What I think should set EPCOT apart is that everything should be based in reality, whether it be a real county in our world, a pavilion of science, or the history of our world. I actually don't have a problem with characters, as long as they are in support of that theme or at very least don't clash with it.

 

[marni1971]

I get that. But the edict did carry through somewhat. Future World was a technology test bed which is what the Community was all about.

Futureworld was more a high tech theme park with limited testing (outside of the exhibit areas)

Walt Disney World 1968-1982 was the real EPCOT test bed for a better community.

 

[P_Radden]

Futureworld was more a high tech theme park with limited testing (outside of the exhibit areas)

Walt Disney World 1968-1982 was the real EPCOT test bed for a better community.

As others have shared before, this video from Epcot Legacy does a great job explaining just that:

One of many neat facts about the early years of WDW is that they invented the 911 phone emergency system used all across America today.
Pretty damn cool stuff.

Also, regarding EPCOT Center, this book is a must:

 

[marni1971]

Also, regarding EPCOT Center, this book is a must:View attachment 151423

Make sure you get this one if you're shopping, and not the version with the 1982 park logo. This one has more art and concepts.

 

[P_Radden]

Make sure you get this one if you're shopping, and not the version with the 1982 park logo. This one has more art and concepts.

I was lucky enough to get a hard back copy of this version, in mint condition, off of ebay for $8!

 

[ABQ]

As others have shared before, this video from Epcot Legacy does a great job explaining just that:

Pretty damn cool stuff.

Got to love Ray Bradbury's enthusiasm in this video. His insistence on educating children in a way that would make them "want to get out of bed in the morning" is such a great thing. If futureworld weren't allowed to just sit idle for so long and become last century's futureworld, then such "edutainment" would still be taking place today.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

A

Walt Disney, for example, wanted total control over who lived in this EPCOT community, with Walt retaining all land ownership. Really, it's not much different than today's Walt Disney World where its "residents" are hand-picked by The Walt Disney Company.

With such authority Walt could, for example, expel any resident he found undesirable. In other words, don't follow Walt's rules and find yourself kicked out of "his" EPCOT community.

We think of Walt Disney as this fatherly figure who used to be invited into everyone's living room every week, almost an "Uncle Walt". When it came to paying customers, Walt was very conscious. However, when it came to his employees, Walt was dictatorial.

Walt wanted EPCOT to be a Utopian community that was "Utopian" by doing things his way. Dissent would not be tolerated.

At least, that's my take on what I've read.

So, when it comes to EPCOT, the existing EPCOT was never what Walt Disney envisioned. Those who defend the EPCOT of the 1980s (which I found rather boring as a twentysomething) are really defending the ideas of those who followed Walt and his brother Roy. It's a bit of a red herring to use Walt's quotes about EPCOT when EPCOT as it exists either today (or as it existed in the 1980s) is not at all "Walt's EPCOT".

At least someone finally tells as it is! If Walt didn't get his way, look out! Just ask the people he named in the McCarthy Hearings claiming they were Communist. What a good guy!

 

[Mike S]

Got to love Ray Bradbury's enthusiasm in this video. His insistence on educating children in a way that would make them "want to get out of bed in the morning" is such a great thing. If futureworld weren't allowed to just sit idle for so long and become last century's futureworld, then such "edutainment" would still be taking place today.

It can be done again. They just have to look in the right places.

 

[montyz81]

Futureworld was more a high tech theme park with limited testing (outside of the exhibit areas) Walt Disney World 1968-1982 was the real EPCOT test bed for a better community.

And it was really the infrastructure that applied the E.P.O.C.T principles, I get it. So if everyone is telling me I'm wrong for posting those quotes, then let's stop complaining about what the current leadership is doing to Epcot. Bring on all the Pixar characters. Add some restaurants and M&Gs to Innoventsions and take out all learning and put in more roller coasters. I give up trying to defend old Epcot Center.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Question for anyone in the know: will this attraction eventually be cohesive with the rest of the park once the Future World overhaul wraps up? Or will it stick out as a corporate grab? Are they incorporating Epcot-esque themes?

 

[RobidaFlats]

And it was really the infrastructure that applied the E.P.O.C.T principles, I get it. So if everyone is telling me I'm wrong for posting those quotes, then let's stop complaining about what the current leadership is doing to Epcot. Bring on all the Pixar characters. Add some restaurants and M&Gs to Innoventsions and take out all learning and put in more roller coasters. I give up trying to defend old Epcot Center.

Just because people may not find your specific argument particularly compelling doesn't mean that they are against your premise. I think you'd be more than a little off base to think that @marni1971 would rather Epcot go in the direction you suggested as opposed to its former glory as EPCOT Center.

As an analogy, just because a French general thought that the Maginot line was a poor idea doesn't mean he was against defending the country.

Edit: typo

 

[ParentsOf4]

Just because people may not find your specific argument particularly compelling doesn't mean that they are against your premise. I think you'd be more than a little off base to think that @marni1971 would rather Epcot go in the direction you suggested as opposed to its former glory as EPCOT Center.

Exactly. I understand those who want to defend the 1980s vision of EPCOT.

However, the 1980s vision of EPCOT is not Walt Disney's vision of EPCOT.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Walt Disney, for example, wanted total control over who lived in this EPCOT community, with Walt retaining all land ownership. Really, it's not much different than today's Walt Disney World where its "residents" are hand-picked by The Walt Disney Company.

With such authority Walt could, for example, expel any resident he found undesirable. In other words, don't follow Walt's rules and find yourself kicked out of "his" EPCOT community.

Just like any apartment complex.

Exactly. I understand those who want to defend the 1980s vision of EPCOT.

However, the 1980s vision of EPCOT is not Walt Disney's vision of EPCOT.

The continuity is there. It is not something completely unrelated.

 

[Fantasmicguy]

Ok, does anyone know if the old ride track (and or vehicle) will be scrapped for an all new track or will it be a retheme like Frozen Ever After? I hear UOE hae a good capacity but I feel the current track is pretty tame and doesn't have the excitement I'd expect for a guardians of the galaxy attraction.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

And it was really the infrastructure that applied the E.P.O.C.T principles, I get it. So if everyone is telling me I'm wrong for posting those quotes, then let's stop complaining about what the current leadership is doing to Epcot. Bring on all the Pixar characters. Add some restaurants and M&Gs to Innoventsions and take out all learning and put in more roller coasters. I give up trying to defend old Epcot Center.

No, keep going! You are not without fans. I would don on a cheerleader costume and yell at the top of my lungs as if this were the All-Stars at 02:00 am, but that sight would be almost as mentally disturbed as Marvel rides in Future World.

 

[RobidaFlats]

The continuity is there. It is not something completely unrelated.

Why does everything have to be so absolutist? It wasn't stated that they were completely unrelated. There is some continuity, as you put it, but it is definitely not what Walt had in mind.

If Walt woke up from a coma in 1982 and was shown EPCOT Center, he wouldn't immediately know what he was looking at. However, after being brought up to speed on what happened, particularly with regard to infrastructure, building codes and governance, I would imagine that he would recognize at least the spirit of what he was going for, just in theme park form instead of city. Then he would say something to the effect of "Not bad boys. Not what I would have done, but if anyone could do what I did then I wouldn't be me."

It is frustrating to see so many posts that ignore what is actually said and try to make disagreement and argument where it doesn't have to exist. There is plenty of actual disagreement and conflict, do we really need to invent more?