GAC to Become DAS

[flynnibus]

Or, just maybe, the actual "issue" is just something that has little to no affect on actual attractions or wait times (there would have to be thousands of people a day using them to make a real impact, none of this anecdotal "one time I saw..." crap)

I never understand why people jump in guns blazing when they haven't done their basic homework first.

 

[arko]

I was going to stay out of this topic as I am happy with Disney FINALLY attempting to solve a disaster that was partly their own making and partly that of an entitlement society, but I REALLY loved that post.

People want special treatment and they want others to get trampled over in the process. There is a sad fact as to why disabilities are called that.

There are some folks for whom a theme park vacation just might not be fair to everyone else. Having a violent out of control child or adult would certainly be one case, no matter how well family thinks they have them trained to deal with the stimuli you face in a day. Not being able to control bodily functions might be another (have no idea if this has been brought up here, but on Miceage it seems a hot topic). No, God, Walt Disney and the US government never promised that everyone could go go the MK (and why would you want to anyway?)

Not trying to be cruel and the Pirate did an excellent job of spelling it out. And I have visited WDW with friends and family that range from amputees to heart conditions to PTSD. I never once got or used any 'go thru the exit with six others' pass.

The abuse of this has to to stop and this is the only way to begin to do so.

The simple fact is the changes will make a WDW vacation an impossibilityfor some, which Disney has decided is ok. Its their Park their choice. Our annual passes expire in May, and we will certainly try out the new system and see if we can manage within its confines, but as many have said if we can't make it work maybe we shouldn't go to Disney, which is exactly what we will do. I am not going to and complain about it I am simply not going to renew passes we can't really use.

But lets not kid ourselves the changes won't make abuse go away.

 

[rct247]

The Mice Age articles were detailing numbers at Disneyland where the issue is much worse due to the large number of Annual Passholders who at busy times can exceed 50% of the guest base, in fact MIceAges number for last Friday were the following, 85,000 Total Guests, of whom 55,000 were Annual Passholders. The heavy repeated use of GAC's by a constantly returning 900000 strong annual passholder base would definitely equate to the 30-50% number you like to use.

WDW has a much smaller annual passholder base and a much smaller local population base that descend on the parks on any given weekend. Orlando and its surrounding areas can muster up a population base of maybe 2 million, whereas LA alone is over 17 million.
I doubt WDW is at the 30-50% level that DLR and DCA suffer from. That is not to say the problem does not exist at WDW, it just h as a more transient flavor, with people getting them because they learned about how to get one while researching their Disney vacation online.

From the previous GAC card thread, Disney did monitor GACs coming through the Fastpass lines at many attractions on property. I don't know the exact averages, but numbers I saw easily were about 125 per hour at some high demand attractions on a average attendance day. I'm willing to bet money that it is hovering close to 10% of riders got in with a GAC that is 1 in 10 riders!! 6 of which used regular Fastpass, and the remaining 3 stood in the regular standby line. Again that is an average and a guess, some attraction may see more and some may see less.

 

[Jane Doe]

I enjoy the people who want GACs or access to the FP line because they are pregnant.

Or one who once stated that they used the GAC because their back problem meant they couldn't stand in queues, but could still ride the attractions which shouldn't be ridden by those with back problems.

 

[s&k'smom]

Funny, just found my son's last GAC a few months ago. Must be a sign. Don't usually have to use it much but it's a nice thing just in case he freaks.

 

[TubaGeek]

The simple fact is the changes will make a WDW vacation an impossibility for some...

How?

 

[WDWFan_Boston]

Why?

Because adults can't talk like adults? They shouldn't say anything then and let the rest of the community discuss.

Adults talking like adults is fine. But when a conversation turns into the the same four or five people arguing and getting snippy, then maybe everyone should take a step back and breathe. I guess I should have used this [sarcasm] to make my intent clear. Those people can argue all night, I don't care. I had a good night's sleep.

I wish everyone's posts were as articulate and well thought out as the one you just made above (and Pirate has been making all night). But have you read some of the other pages?

 

[Monty]

I was going to stay out of this topic as I am happy with Disney FINALLY attempting to solve a disaster that was partly their own making and partly that of an entitlement society, but I REALLY loved that post.

People want special treatment and they want others to get trampled over in the process. There is a sad fact as to why disabilities are called that.

There are some folks for whom a theme park vacation just might not be fair to everyone else. Having a violent out of control child or adult would certainly be one case, no matter how well family thinks they have them trained to deal with the stimuli you face in a day. Not being able to control bodily functions might be another (have no idea if this has been brought up here, but on Miceage it seems a hot topic). No, God, Walt Disney and the US government never promised that everyone could go go the MK (and why would you want to anyway?)

Not trying to be cruel and the Pirate did an excellent job of spelling it out. And I have visited WDW with friends and family that range from amputees to heart conditions to PTSD. I never once got or used any 'go thru the exit with six others' pass.

The abuse of this has to to stop and this is the only way to begin to do so.

I wanted to stay out of this as well, I tend to get very angry when able-bodied people decide they know how to "solve" disabled people's problems with their own one-solution-fits-all "fair" plan.

I agree the abuse has to be addressed. I don't believe anything short of not providing any accommodations at all would stop the abuse entirely. If there's a system in place, someone will find a way to manipulate it to their own advantage. A sad reflection on the underbelly of human nature.

I don't think what's currently being proposed for DAS is perfect, I can think of scenarios that it doesn't address. One would be the family with a child who can only stay in the parks for a very abbreviated day [any number of reasons that could be the case]. Being required to wait the length of time the able-bodied park goers are waiting means that someone who can't spend a full day in the parks can't have as many rides as someone who can.

If your last sentence is to be believed and this is only the beginning of the changes, maybe I can buy in... For now.

I think Disney could expand the use of MagicBands to include a programmed-in GAC/DAS equivalent that would be able to specifically address the needs of the individual getting it. Then they could approach a ride or attraction CM, have their RFID scanned and the CM could provide tailored assistance to the individual as appropriate. The group accompanying the disabled guest would only be able to benefit if the disabled guest goes first, the "group" could also be specifically identified so an AP holder who has a GAC can still have a long-term GAC but not be able to "rent it out" to different pretend "family". The other advantage is the number of uses of the accommodation could be restricted to what an able-bodied guest could reasonably be expected to have access to during the particular season, ie. If it's slow season and an average guest could reasonably expect to ride 20 rides during the course of a full day in the parks, GACs would be restricted to 20 uses that day, whether those 20 uses are used rapid-fire by a guest who can only stay in the parks until noon or spread out by a guest who can't manage in a long wait but can stay in the park all day. If it's crazy-busy season [Christmas or 4th of July] and a regular guest could reasonably manage 5 rides all day, the GACs would be restricted to that. There's still the possibility of abuse, but it would get rid of the "I can bypass the lines all day and ride 50 rides a day" crowd. Another significant advantage for GAC/DAS users is in the vast majority of cases, their use of the system would look just like anyone who was using FP+ to access the attractions, no more judgmental guests arbitrarily decided that they don't "look disabled" and therefor are cheating.

The current proposal only addresses one subset of the disabled community [perhaps the largest, I don't know]. The current system, although flawed and readily abused, accommodated a wider variety of disabilities. It would be a shame to unduly restrict people's ability to enjoy the parks just to respond to the knee-jerk, pitchfork-wielding mob that think they personally know how best to "deal" with problems they can't possibly comprehend.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Not cool man. Not cool.

They are a troll, trying to elicite some nasty responses.

 

[minninedaisy74]

I wanted to stay out of this as well, I tend to get very angry when able-bodied people decide they know how to "solve" disabled people's problems with their own one-solution-fits-all "fair" plan.

I agree the abuse has to be addressed. I don't believe anything short of not providing any accommodations at all would stop the abuse entirely. If there's a system in place, someone will find a way to manipulate it to their own advantage. A sad reflection on the underbelly of human nature.

I don't think what's currently being proposed for DAS is perfect, I can think of scenarios that it doesn't address. One would be the family with a child who can only stay in the parks for a very abbreviated day [any number of reasons that could be the case]. Being required to wait the length of time the able-bodied park goers are waiting means that someone who can't spend a full day in the parks can't have as many rides as someone who can.

If your last sentence is to be believed and this is only the beginning of the changes, maybe I can buy in... For now.

I think Disney could expand the use of MagicBands to include a programmed-in GAC/DAS equivalent that would be able to specifically address the needs of the individual getting it. Then they could approach a ride or attraction CM, have their RFID scanned and the CM could provide tailored assistance to the individual as appropriate. The group accompanying the disabled guest would only be able to benefit if the disabled guest goes first, the "group" could also be specifically identified so an AP holder who has a GAC can still have a long-term GAC but not be able to "rent it out" to different pretend "family". The other advantage is the number of uses of the accommodation could be restricted to what an able-bodied guest could reasonably be expected to have access to during the particular season, ie. If it's slow season and an average guest could reasonably expect to ride 20 rides during the course of a full day in the parks, GACs would be restricted to 20 uses that day, whether those 20 uses are used rapid-fire by a guest who can only stay in the parks until noon or spread out by a guest who can't manage in a long wait but can stay in the park all day. If it's crazy-busy season [Christmas or 4th of July] and a regular guest could reasonably manage 5 rides all day, the GACs would be restricted to that. There's still the possibility of abuse, but it would get rid of the "I can bypass the lines all day and ride 50 rides a day" crowd. Another significant advantage for GAC/DAS users is in the vast majority of cases, their use of the system would look just like anyone who was using FP+ to access the attractions, no more judgmental guests arbitrarily decided that they don't "look disabled" and therefor are cheating.

The current proposal only addresses one subset of the disabled community [perhaps the largest, I don't know]. The current system, although flawed and readily abused, accommodated a wider variety of disabilities. It would be a shame to unduly restrict people's ability to enjoy the parks just to respond to the knee-jerk, pitchfork-wielding mob that think they personally know how best to "deal" with problems they can't possibly comprehend.

Again no one is entitled to a Disney vacation and this new process seems to be a step in the right direction! It seems that those who aren't physically able to stand and wait will be given the accommodations needed to have a great vacation! IMOP the GAC went down hill when it was given for any little issue like ADD and anxiety. Disney wasn't designed with everyone in mind . Families need to cater their vacation destinations to their needs and not expect the resort/destination to provide anything other then what is expected by law.

 

[NowInc]

There is a whole other point that everyone seems to be missing (or at least I haven't seen anyone talk about it on here...but to be fair I more "grazed" through the posts here rather than hard read most of them).

Remember the news story about the GAC abuse? How outraged everybody was, regardless if they were legitimate GAC users or just regular part attendees? Disney said they would be implementing changes to the system. and of course like most of the trend here lately, people took it as "just empty words". Disney actually made the change, and of course no one seems to care over the fact that they actually are TRYING to fix a big problem that negatively reflected on everyone's experience.

I think those who are upset (some even outraged) over the change aren't seeing a bigger picture here. GAC abuse created longer Fastpass (and standby) lines for EVERYONE. ESPECIALLY so for those who actually needed the access for valid reasons. It's not difficult to see how multiple families of 4+ abusing the system on a popular ride, over and over, end up clogging up and essentially dead stopping the line to an E-Ticket. I saw it a few times first hand this past weekend, 3 different "families" of 6 all skipping lines (literally..sometimes skipping down the isle) because they had a GAC. One time even the holder of the past was laughing as he gleefully ran briskly past those of us in standby...for a second time in a row. Now I'm not saying he wasn't disabled (tho visablly he wasn't, but thats not here nor there), but sometimes you can look at someone and see they are up to no good. That ride ended up having a long FP line because of his group of a half dozen decided they wanted to go for a 2nd ride, and what deterred them? Nothing.

The new system does limit this from happening, even if abused. Is it 100% fair. No. But it is still a big help to those in need, a bigger one than MOST other vacation destinations provide. A service if you will, one that is not a requirement.

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

I, for one, am all for this change. I have seen FAR too many people abusing this system. For those of you who say the new system isn't fair, you can thank those who abused the old system for this change. If they hadn't abused the GAC cards, things probably wouldn't be changing. But there are people out there who feel they shouldn't have to wait in line more than 5 minutes, that their vacation is more special than everyone else's... At DHS a couple trips ago, we were in the FP line for RNRC and in front of us was a group of 6 with a GAC card. The card was for a boy, about 7 or 8 years old. As we're standing in line, they are discussing how the boy does not want to ride and deciding who will go out the chicken exit with him. They knew before they got in line that he wasn't going on and they decided they would use the card anyway. I was so enraged by this. Karma is a witch though so those who abused the system.. theirs will come back to them in the end!

 

[AEfx]

I never understand why people jump in guns blazing when they haven't done their basic homework first.

I don't know what you are implying that I do not know, so why don't you use your words and explain instead of making pithy, useless replies?

My guns were blazing because I am seeing a bunch of disgusting people post cheers about a program that had nothing to do with them in the first place celebrating about it being made more complex with more logistics for people who truly need it, because of a small percentage of fringe who abused it, in the laughable thought that it will affect people like yourselves wait time whatsoever.

But you keep cheering it - YAY disabled people now how to work even harder! It must give such satisfaction!

 

[jaklgreen]

Here is a musing, just that as it's 11.20pm in the UK and I've had a vino, but do people who do not have kids on their trip with them view rider switch with the same disdain as some people view an "abused" GAC/DAS.
So, Splash is a 20 minute wait, DAS family goes to kiosk and gets a pass for 20 minutes later, first parent rides with child in normal queue, comes off, second parent goes on with child using DAS and gets a rider switch, first parent then goes straight back on.

That is not even the same thing since the whole family waited in line for their turn, they are just not riding together. So they have no "advantage".

 

[Travel Junkie]

Or, just maybe, the actual "issue" is just something that has little to no affect on actual attractions or wait times (there would have to be thousands of people a day using them to make a real impact, none of this anecdotal "one time I saw..." crap) and it's only a response to the bad press because one company profited, abused mentally disabled people, and so grossly violated it (I still don't see how this isn't a legal matter, exploiting disabled people), and the supposed ongoing "problem" was invented by people on message boards.

The GAC issue is huge, especially in Disneyland. Something needed to be done. Quoting from a MiceAge article in August.

"In an example of just how out of touch many of Disney’s theme park executives are, it was only when this Today Show expose aired that they would admit that they had a problem. Their own theme park teams in Guest Relations and Attractions have known this was a problem for years, and had been trying to tell the executives it was something that needed attention, but they were constantly told not to worry about it, mostly because no executive had the guts to attach their name to this hot-button issue. The problem is at its most severe in Anaheim, where over 100,000 Annual Passholders are now using the GAC process to board attractions each year, in addition to smaller numbers of hotel guests or casual visitors who aren’t Passholders. On the average busy day, Disneyland Resort’s Guest Relations teams in City Hall, the Chamber of Commerce, and the Guest Services windows in the Esplanade, are now issuing between 1,200 and 1,400 GAC passes per day. And until recently, those GAC passes could be post-dated for 60 days at a time, in an attempt to cut down on the number of people applying for GAC passes each day. But that practice exponentially increased the numbers of pre-issued GAC passes that would arrive on days with high Annual Passholder visitation.
That means that on the average busy Sunday, when AP visitation swells, there are upwards of 3,000 GAC passes being used between the two parks, most of them stamped for a total of 6 people allowed per pass. The Cast Members at Guest Relations can track those numbers easily, and the Cast Members who staff the GAC check-in podium at Radiator Springs Racers marvel at how up to 4,000 people per day will access Racers via a GAC pass instead of using a Fastpass or waiting in the Standby or Single Rider lines. When a popular ride like Racers, which can only accommodate 20,000 people per 15 hour day under the most optimal of conditions without any major downtimes, has 20% of its riders coming through using a Guest Assistance Card, you know there’s a problem."

No wonder RSR line moves so slow. Full Article: http://micechat.com/34900-miceage-disneyland-tomorrowland/

 

[AEfx]

Disney wasn't designed with everyone in mind .

If this is something acceptable to say, then I think it's time I take a break from these boards.

Want to talk about entitled...yeah, there are a ton of entitled people here, but it's not those like myself who have disabled family members - REALLY disabled people, like a child who CANNOT WALK and will NEVER WALK ONE STEP in her ENTIRE LIFE...

I, for one, am all for this change. I have seen FAR too many people abusing this system. For those of you who say the new system isn't fair, you can thank those who abused the old system for this change. If they hadn't abused the GAC cards, things probably wouldn't be changing. But there are people out there who feel they shouldn't have to wait in line more than 5 minutes, that their vacation is more special than everyone else's... At DHS a couple trips ago, we were in the FP line for RNRC and in front of us was a group of 6 with a GAC card. The card was for a boy, about 7 or 8 years old. As we're standing in line, they are discussing how the boy does not want to ride and deciding who will go out the chicken exit with him. They knew before they got in line that he wasn't going on and they decided they would use the card anyway. I was so enraged by this. Karma is a witch though so those who abused the system.. theirs will come back to them in the end!

It's posts like this that literally make me sick.

"That their vacation is more special than everyone else's"...

MY NIECE CANNOT WALK AND REQUIRES TWO ADULTS TO LIFT HER INTO EACH AND EVERY RIDE VEHICLE, IN AND OUT, EVERY TIME WE DO ANYTHING.

EVERY SINGLE STEP YOU TAKE IN LIFE is special, and you people are CHEERING because you saw someone abuse it one day, got your underwear all in a knot, and now can pretend that anything is actually going to change for your wait times.

"You can thank those who abused the old system for the change" - my God, do you hear yourself? So a handicapped kid who has to struggle every time they need to use the bathroom in public should just chalk that up to...what?

There is a PERVERSE satisfaction in this thread that truly makes me sick. I mean, one person above who I can't even bring myself to quote said "They call it a disability for a reason".

That people who supposedly believe in Disney Magic think it's okay to say things like this, and that this board tolerates it - is enough to make me want to literally throw up.


I wold love to see if any of you people hiding behind a keyboard hating on kids with disabilities who struggle every moment of their lives cheering about this would say this to my nieces face. "Sorry, you are disabled - it's called a "dis-ability" for a reason."

None of the cowards who are saying this stuff could live one day in her life without losing it. Simply couldn't handle it. So big freaking deal that Disney made it a little easier for her (and, yet again, 99% of the people posting do not know how it actually worked, you actually wait longer at some attractions, it basically evened out).

Steve - some of the stuff in this thread is so sickening, I just don't see how this is a topic that can be discussed here. When you have people openly gloating about people with disabilities who now have a much more convoluted system to navigate when just going to the bathroom for them can be a logistical nightmare, there just is no middle ground for discussion - it's truly the sickest display I have ever seen, and I have to fight very hard not to wish every single one of them gets disabled and cannot walk and has to struggle through every inch of life - then we could see just how compassionate they really are and expect people to be.

What's funny is that my niece would be the first person to try to help them learn how to live in a wheelchair - because she's that kind of good person. Every single person who has "cheered" this should be ashamed of themselves - because even if you think it's right, gloating over it and telling disabled people where they can go and what they should and should not be entitled to is so crass and vulgar and downright disgusting.

 

[AEfx]

The GAC issue is huge, especially in Disneyland. Something needed to be done. Quoting from a MiceAge article in August/

As I said in my post, Disneyland is a different beast. More than half their park attendance at any given time is local APers. I'm sure the same groups come back week after week. Though I hardly find Al Yutz to be a definitive answer to anything.

This board is about WDW.

And I can tell you those people in this thread thinking that somehow there is going to be less of a wait for anything at WDW are simply hallucinating.


But regardless - yup, you people continue to cheer! They got the bad guys! Who cares about all the actual disabled children and adults who will never enjoy walking one step in their lives, the bad guys won't win! Besides, those kids are "dis-abled" anyway - "Disney isn't for everyone", and "Dis-ability is called a dis-ability for a reason!".

SICK. DISGUSTING. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

That is not even the same thing since the whole family waited in line for their turn, they are just not riding together. So they have no "advantage".

Like I said, it was just a musing, I suppose the point I was thinking of was just as how some anti-GAC people could use the line "they have a GAC, they're having more ride time", a child-less person could say "why don't they just queue twice, they're having more ride time than me".
My point being how the non-advantaged view those who are supposedly getting a better deal. I'm pretty sure Soarin gets some rider switch abuse seeing as strollers are not allowed in the pavilion so you can't take your "proof" in with you and they can't prove you don't have one outside.

 

[Fractal514]

I'm glad to see that Disney is trying to find a system that will accommodate guests with special needs and yet doesn't make it easy for abuse. I think it is clear to everyone that there is SOME level of abuse, though the actual numbers seem in contention here. Regardless of the amount of abuse, Disney obviously feels based on their observations that this change is needed, and so I trust that this new system has been created to address the concerns they have.

As for the tone of the conversation and the rhetoric/accusations/and overly-defensive responses flying around... I think everyone needs to recognize that a VAST majority of us all want the same thing: we want children (and adults) to be able to enjoy the theme parks. For some kids a physical condition makes waiting in line impractical if not impossible; for others it is a mental or emotional one. Those needs are real, and anyone who would deny them, either the physical or the mental/emotional, is ignorant to the situation. Those needs are not always apparent and therefore the rest of us should withhold judgement and trust that there is more than we can see. There is a flip side to this though, guests with disabilities need to stop being so defensive to the point of aggression every time they think they are being judged. This reaction is understandable, but it just serves to escalate the emotions in a conversation or in line and make everyone THAT much more uncomfortable. I'm not suggesting that a parent must stay silent in the face of obvious aggression or mocking, but I've seen parents who per-emptively let EVERYONE know what's going on with their child and complain loudly how people don't understand the situation. I also think partly that has gone on here on these forums, those who have family/friends with disabilities have grown defensive disproportionately to the conversation, and understandably so, but in the end all that does is turn off minds, rather than open them.

Disney has to do it's best to make sure that as many of those passes are legitimate as possible. They cannot do this by requiring proof of disability, for reasons stated loudly and repeatedly on many other forum posts. They are very reluctant to deny based on their own detective work, done by under-trained staff who are liable to get it wrong and thus incur a lawsuit. So what can they do? They can create a system that provides what is needed, but not what would be wanted. They have to create a system that allows those who need to by-pass lines to do so, but not in a manner that gives them an advantage in touring the parks over a regular visitor. Let me be clear on this, by advantage, I mean the ability to ride significantly more attractions than a regular visitor.

Here is what I would love to see answered by those who have fears about the DAS. What are your fears exactly? If you have a child who cannot wait in line, would this system meet those needs? If you have a child who still would not be served by this system, how do they cope with the monorail and waiting there or the airport or car ride, or any of the other dozens of places where waiting is a necessity. I ask this, not out of trying to trap or condemn, but rather to understand the strategies that work in those situations and then extrapolate from there how they would work in the parks.

 

[Fractal514]

SICK. DISGUSTING. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

This is precisely the type of response that prevents this conversation from actually being productive. Let me ask you this, why shouldn't people cheer that folks who have been abusing a system intended to help disable children and adults are being stopped? If I were a family who used the GAC, I'd be happy to see abusers stopped.

Not everything is black and white, someone could cheer that an abuser is stopped while also worrying about the future for legitimate cases.

Also, what are your precise concerns with this new system, it sounds to me like it will work just as well for allowing disable guests to see the parks.