GAC to Become DAS

[arko]

How?

Because for some families the GAC allowed them to tour the park with little delay, and for some with physical and mental health issues who can only stand 3-4 hours out at a time, the GAC allowed them to do that. The new system will see some families leaving the park after the same time, but having done a lot less.
Also as many have indicated and made abundantly clear if your child has issues with waiting etc (for whatever reason) then maybe Disney isn't for them and they should just stay home. This new system does not help with that.

There is no easy answer to this, whatever Disney was going to affect some people negatively, because they were going from a very wide open system and had nowhere to go but to offer less.

Lets be clear about this, the disabled and their families behavior did not bring about this change, it was able bodied and minded people who feigned illness to get their GAC's that brought this about.

And as I have said this new system will see just as much abuse, simply because Disney cannot validate or reject anyone asking, the magic words have not changed, and if you think they care about having to show ID, think again. As soon as FP+ is in full swing and regular FP's are gone, those same people will be looking for anything to get more access, and the DAS does just that.

 

[Fractal514]

Like I said, it was just a musing, I suppose the point I was thinking of was just as how some anti-GAC people could use the line "they have a GAC, they're having more ride time", a child-less person could say "why don't they just queue twice, they're having more ride time than me".
My point being how the non-advantaged view those who are supposedly getting a better deal. I'm pretty sure Soarin gets some rider switch abuse seeing as strollers are not allowed in the pavilion so you can't take your "proof" in with you and they can't prove you don't have one outside.

Regardless of fairness with regards to childless visitors, the child-swap program is not abused, it is used as intended. Also, it is not available on every ride, only those with height restrictions.

 

[arko]

From the previous GAC card thread, Disney did monitor GACs coming through the Fastpass lines at many attractions on property. I don't know the exact averages, but numbers I saw easily were about 125 per hour at some high demand attractions on a average attendance day. I'm willing to bet money that it is hovering close to 10% of riders got in with a GAC that is 1 in 10 riders!! 6 of which used regular Fastpass, and the remaining 3 stood in the regular standby line. Again that is an average and a guess, some attraction may see more and some may see less.

I will buy 10% but not the 30-50% others have indicated at least not at WDW. The 30-50% number makes much more sense at DLR/DCA

 

[Fractal514]

And as I have said this new system will see just as much abuse, simply because Disney cannot validate or reject anyone asking, the magic words have not changed, and if you think they care about having to show ID, think again. As soon as FP+ is in full swing and regular FP's are gone, those same people will be looking for anything to get more access, and the DAS does just that.

I disagree with your last statement. Having to wait the length of the stand-by line will discourage some. Having to get a photo taken for your ID will discourage others. Limiting its usage and eliminating transfer ability will discourage others still. It might not prevent abuse, but I do think it will reduce it.

 

[ddrongowski]

I just can't wait to see the immediate change in wait times this isn't going to create.

FP+!!!! Remember everything is changing... all rides and parades, etc... will now utilize the fp+ system, so things are going to change big time. Just wait until the existing fp system is removed... OH THE PAIN AND AGONY!!!!!

With that out of the way, I have a question...

IASM, POTC, SM, etc... are rides that are designed to overstimulate people? Right? If someone cannot handle over stimulation why would someone, that loves that person, purposely torment that other person by making them go on it?

Another question...

IASM, Splash Mountain, POTC, the safari ride, jungle cruise and longer rides. These are not short rides... So this brings this to mind. Why is it okay for that person that cannot handle long waits in a line, to get on a long ride? What is the difference of 10 minutes on IASW or waiting in the line for 10 minutes? Isn't 10 minutes, 10 minutes?

Also most of the lines are less over stimulating then the ride itself, so wouldn't that help calm the easily overstimulated person?

Just questions, but I know, I know, "I just don't understand." That is why I am asking.

 

[ddrongowski]

I disagree with your last statement. Having to wait the length of the stand-by line will discourage some. Having to get a photo taken for your ID will discourage others. Limiting its usage and eliminating transfer ability will discourage others still. It might not prevent abuse, but I do think it will reduce it.

I have to agree with this, as some of those that had a gac would get their group in and then the gac person would not even get on the ride, but would wait outside the ride. I like that Disney now requires that the person actually has to get on the ride. And I am fine with that, after all wasn't that the purpose of the gac? If not, then why would you need a gac, if your not going to ride?

 

[Fractal514]

I can't speak about parents of kids with disabilities, but the question of why would you put your child in a situation they might not be able to handle? Well that's one area in which the parents of "regular" kids are rampant. We've all seen the kids crying as the parent puts them on Space Mountain or the toddler who doesn't like the Mansion, "You'll be fine, you're going to love this, trust me!" I think parents push kids boundaries all the time, sometimes because they want them to grow a little and sometimes because the parent wants to ride and the kid is just going to have to deal with it.

 

[ddrongowski]

A car ride, they are locals my friend they go to the parks about 1 or 2 a year and when they do they stay on property, please stop referring to him as a violent child, Micheal is anything but. being in a car ride with his family isn't so bad as its just them. Honestly you keep missing my initial argument. He can do all of those things, the issue here is that the rides aren't as accessible to him as they were before. He is gonna wanna ride haunted mansion or space mountain in those 40 minute waits, and he will fixate on that. Im not his parent so of course I don't know what they do to keep him from fixating to hard, but he is a well behaved kid. long lines happen to freak him out and shows aren't his thing cause he doesn't get distracted by them.

Long lines freak everyone out. If I see a line that is to long for me to wait in, I just don't go. Now you said they are locals, do they have aps? If so then they can go to WDW a lot more often and that helps alleviate the "once in a lifetime" issue. So when they go, just go on the rides with short waits. His parents will need to not set up a situation were he gets excited about a specific ride. Yes I know, I know "I don't understand", but then again that is why there are conversations.

 

[jaklgreen]

I think Disney is doing the best they can. There are so many different types of disabilities that it has to be impossible to make everyone happy. With the physical disability they have fixed that by making most lines accessible( the ones that are not then you use DAS). With most other issues the DAS seems pretty reasonable, that along with your fastpass you can you the DAS to get your extra rides in. Now as far as the few people who have the more severe cases(like the ones who child will not last the day) if it was me I would speak to the quest relations and explain that my child will only make it till, lets say, 2pm and ask if we could get a DAS(or fastpass ) for a certain number of rides up until that time and explain that we would be leaving the park for that day after that. The cast members are human and of course want to help anyone in need. If they are able to put a time stamp on the DAS/Fastpass to accommodate those needs, would those of you who need that be able to work with that? IDK if they can do that but it would be worth a try asking for it nicely.

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

If this is something acceptable to say, then I think it's time I take a break from these boards.

Want to talk about entitled...yeah, there are a ton of entitled people here, but it's not those like myself who have disabled family members - REALLY disabled people, like a child who CANNOT WALK and will NEVER WALK ONE STEP in her ENTIRE LIFE...



It's posts like this that literally make me sick.

"That their vacation is more special than everyone else's"...

MY NIECE CANNOT WALK AND REQUIRES TWO ADULTS TO LIFT HER INTO EACH AND EVERY RIDE VEHICLE, IN AND OUT, EVERY TIME WE DO ANYTHING.

EVERY SINGLE STEP YOU TAKE IN LIFE is special, and you people are CHEERING because you saw someone abuse it one day, got your underwear all in a knot, and now can pretend that anything is actually going to change for your wait times.

"You can thank those who abused the old system for the change" - my God, do you hear yourself? So a handicapped kid who has to struggle every time they need to use the bathroom in public should just chalk that up to...what?

There is a PERVERSE satisfaction in this thread that truly makes me sick. I mean, one person above who I can't even bring myself to quote said "They call it a disability for a reason".

That people who supposedly believe in Disney Magic think it's okay to say things like this, and that this board tolerates it - is enough to make me want to literally throw up.


I wold love to see if any of you people hiding behind a keyboard hating on kids with disabilities who struggle every moment of their lives cheering about this would say this to my nieces face. "Sorry, you are disabled - it's called a "dis-ability" for a reason."

None of the cowards who are saying this stuff could live one day in her life without losing it. Simply couldn't handle it. So big freaking deal that Disney made it a little easier for her (and, yet again, 99% of the people posting do not know how it actually worked, you actually wait longer at some attractions, it basically evened out).

Steve - some of the stuff in this thread is so sickening, I just don't see how this is a topic that can be discussed here. When you have people openly gloating about people with disabilities who now have a much more convoluted system to navigate when just going to the bathroom for them can be a logistical nightmare, there just is no middle ground for discussion - it's truly the sickest display I have ever seen, and I have to fight very hard not to wish every single one of them gets disabled and cannot walk and has to struggle through every inch of life - then we could see just how compassionate they really are and expect people to be.

What's funny is that my niece would be the first person to try to help them learn how to live in a wheelchair - because she's that kind of good person. Every single person who has "cheered" this should be ashamed of themselves - because even if you think it's right, gloating over it and telling disabled people where they can go and what they should and should not be entitled to is so crass and vulgar and downright disgusting.

You obviously mistook what I was saying in my post. I wasn't stating that people who actually NEED the GAC are the ones who feel their vacation is more important or special than anyone else's. I work with people who are disabled so don't you for a second think I don't know what they're going through. I also work with lots of Make A Wish children so I know that these trips for them ARE special. I was stating VERY CLEARLY that the ones who are ABUSING the GAC card (AKA- don't NEED it) are typically the one's who feel they deserve to cut the line, they deserve special treatment. That is why they do these things. THESE are the people who feel entitled and these are the ones who will find a way to manipulate the system. If you had actually read my post instead of twisting it to what you wanted to see, you would have seen that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[ddrongowski]

I say again, as a parent of a child who has used a GAC in the past, I know first hand what it's like. I also know my child well enough to know when to take a break and refocus and more importantly, when to avoid a situation all together. For years we couldn't take trips that would keep us away from our house for more that two hours because my daughter was mortally afraid of any restroom not in our house. We couldn't go out to dinner because she was terrified of the seats in restaurants. We couldn't fly for the same reason. We made the conscious decision to put her needs first. If you know a situation is going to be too much for your child, you don't put them in that situation! I don't care how much you want your child to experience Disney, if it's going to cause them stress, don't go! Again, speaking with the voice of experience. With the new system in place, I can see that wait times for the DAS will probably be shorter than they are under the current system, thereby alleviating some of the stress on kids/adults with these disabilities and allow everyone to gain a little more enjoyment out of their vacations. (The wait for GAC at the Alice in wonderland ride in DL was particularly brutal! I'd say worse that the stand-by line.)

I certainly don't think anyone's needs outweigh anyone else's. Which, if you re-read my post, you'll see.

That's what a parent that loves their child does, but I am starting to believe (from posts on the internet) that a lot of parents are using their child's situation for their own personal gains and pleasures, because they love themselves more. I commend you for being a great loving parent!

 

[jaklgreen]

That's what a parent that loves their child does, but I am starting to believe (from posts on the internet) that a lot of parents are using their child's situation for their own personal gains and pleasures, because they love themselves more. I commend you for being a great loving parent!

I second that!!!

 

[JLipnick]

I wanted to stay out of this as well, I tend to get very angry when able-bodied people decide they know how to "solve" disabled people's problems with their own one-solution-fits-all "fair" plan.

I agree the abuse has to be addressed. I don't believe anything short of not providing any accommodations at all would stop the abuse entirely. If there's a system in place, someone will find a way to manipulate it to their own advantage. A sad reflection on the underbelly of human nature.

I don't think what's currently being proposed for DAS is perfect, I can think of scenarios that it doesn't address. One would be the family with a child who can only stay in the parks for a very abbreviated day [any number of reasons that could be the case]. Being required to wait the length of time the able-bodied park goers are waiting means that someone who can't spend a full day in the parks can't have as many rides as someone who can.

If your last sentence is to be believed and this is only the beginning of the changes, maybe I can buy in... For now.

I think Disney could expand the use of MagicBands to include a programmed-in GAC/DAS equivalent that would be able to specifically address the needs of the individual getting it. Then they could approach a ride or attraction CM, have their RFID scanned and the CM could provide tailored assistance to the individual as appropriate. The group accompanying the disabled guest would only be able to benefit if the disabled guest goes first, the "group" could also be specifically identified so an AP holder who has a GAC can still have a long-term GAC but not be able to "rent it out" to different pretend "family". The other advantage is the number of uses of the accommodation could be restricted to what an able-bodied guest could reasonably be expected to have access to during the particular season, ie. If it's slow season and an average guest could reasonably expect to ride 20 rides during the course of a full day in the parks, GACs would be restricted to 20 uses that day, whether those 20 uses are used rapid-fire by a guest who can only stay in the parks until noon or spread out by a guest who can't manage in a long wait but can stay in the park all day. If it's crazy-busy season [Christmas or 4th of July] and a regular guest could reasonably manage 5 rides all day, the GACs would be restricted to that. There's still the possibility of abuse, but it would get rid of the "I can bypass the lines all day and ride 50 rides a day" crowd. Another significant advantage for GAC/DAS users is in the vast majority of cases, their use of the system would look just like anyone who was using FP+ to access the attractions, no more judgmental guests arbitrarily decided that they don't "look disabled" and therefor are cheating.

The current proposal only addresses one subset of the disabled community [perhaps the largest, I don't know]. The current system, although flawed and readily abused, accommodated a wider variety of disabilities. It would be a shame to unduly restrict people's ability to enjoy the parks just to respond to the knee-jerk, pitchfork-wielding mob that think they personally know how best to "deal" with problems they can't possibly comprehend.

Agreed. My son falls into this category. He is 5 and walks in a walker. Having to constantly go to a kiosk in between rides will tire him out. We might have to use his wheelchair stroller but then disney may tell us we have to put him in his stroller and wait in the normal lines. our stroller is not a means of normal transportation for him, but more of somewhere for him to sit when he gets too tired (he has low muscle tone, so his muscles tire very quickly) and we will never tell him he has to stop walking if he wants to walk nor will we ever let anyone else tell him he can't walk. Our next trip is next June, so hopefully some kinks will get worked out before then. But this very well could alter our ability to do disney. I just hate how some people think that this type of treatment is giving the disabled an edge up on every one else. why not give a child who can't run and play like all of his friends an leg up every now and then?

 

[ddrongowski]

God, I hope so! Still, not cool to say something like that though. Especially without a smiley attached to convey intent.

Always read posts on the internet in a non aggressive/militant state of mind. Not everyone wants to or is inclined to use emoticons. Now if someone post !@#$!%#$%@ at you then yes it is probably an aggressive/militant post.

 

[ddrongowski]

Really? Where was Disney the last 5 years on this matter?

Kudos for them to actually face up and face the music.. but 'responsible' and 'quick' do not come into play when it comes to addressing the GAC problem. It took Disney being shamed all across national media and morning TV to finally get someone to give a toot.

I only knew of the problem after the news showed it, so that is why I said timely. I have been going to WDW annually since September 2001, but was not aware that a GAC even existed.

 

[ddrongowski]

My main issue again was the constant bashing of those using the GAC with actual disability, The DAS is going to cause some complications for those that needed the GAC the way it was, pure and simple. More extensive background checks and implementing the same photo Id standards and rules that the DAS are going to use would have had the same desired affect, cut the fraud and give those that need it the GAC.

They are changing fp to fp+ and gac to das, and everything is going fp+ usable so everyone is going to have to learn new methods. Resistance to change is futile, and we all try to resist it, but it still happens.

 

[ddrongowski]

Surely you jest?!

P.S. Probably safe to say "women", rather than "people". At least in this situation.

That's sexist!!!! I am sooooooo offended. I am a seahorse!

 

[Travel Junkie]

As I said in my post, Disneyland is a different beast. More than half their park attendance at any given time is local APers. I'm sure the same groups come back week after week. Though I hardly find Al Yutz to be a definitive answer to anything.

This board is about WDW.

And I can tell you those people in this thread thinking that somehow there is going to be less of a wait for anything at WDW are simply hallucinating.


But regardless - yup, you people continue to cheer! They got the bad guys! Who cares about all the actual disabled children and adults who will never enjoy walking one step in their lives, the bad guys won't win! Besides, those kids are "dis-abled" anyway - "Disney isn't for everyone", and "Dis-ability is called a dis-ability for a reason!".

SICK. DISGUSTING. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

I believe this board covers much more than WDW and its interesting that you say the GAC program is not an issue and in the face of facts that disprove it, you simply dismiss them as not credible. Disney has decided this is something that requires their attention on both coasts. It took a TV report to trigger a response, but that's what it takes sometimes.

We all know that WDW will do anything to cut costs when are where it can. This new program as outlined will take more manpower than the other system which will cost WDW more labor to staff the various kiosks throughout the park. WDW believes it is a big enough issue to increase labor costs to put this system in place.

I also feel that Disney is making more than adequate accommodations for individuals that are unable to go through the standby line. Disney has a history of being proactive in this area and the ADA has even said as much after the Today show report came out. Maybe I missed it but what exactly do you not approve of in this proposed system?

As for the emotion involved, there are people applauding the decision Disney made but I don't see people cheering that disabled people got what was coming to them. It is true that Disney is not for everyone. Should Disney make accomodations for those who can not afford a WDW vacation? Of course not. There is a segment of the population right there that is excluded from Disney. It is also true that due to someones disability, Disney would not be a good experience for them no matter what is done. I'm sorry, but its true. That is in no way being insenstive or shameful. If someone does need special accomdations but can still enjoy a Disney theme park, Disney has made that possible.

The fact is there has been rampant abuse that has been layed out and Disney's policy was adjusted to both ensure the people that needed the system can use it and hopefuly curb the abuse of the system by people who don't need it. This IS a problem and if Disney did nothing the problem would continue to get worse as more and more people would learn to take advantage.

The ultimate goal is for as many people as possible to enjoy their Disney experience. This new policy is a huge step in that direction.

 

[ddrongowski]

I'm not kidding. However, the classic line is "I can't wait in lines."

So say one has "bladder" issues, and likes to drink lots of fluids... You see were I'm going with this.

 

[JLipnick]

If this is something acceptable to say, then I think it's time I take a break from these boards.

Want to talk about entitled...yeah, there are a ton of entitled people here, but it's not those like myself who have disabled family members - REALLY disabled people, like a child who CANNOT WALK and will NEVER WALK ONE STEP in her ENTIRE LIFE...



It's posts like this that literally make me sick.

"That their vacation is more special than everyone else's"...

MY NIECE CANNOT WALK AND REQUIRES TWO ADULTS TO LIFT HER INTO EACH AND EVERY RIDE VEHICLE, IN AND OUT, EVERY TIME WE DO ANYTHING.

EVERY SINGLE STEP YOU TAKE IN LIFE is special, and you people are CHEERING because you saw someone abuse it one day, got your underwear all in a knot, and now can pretend that anything is actually going to change for your wait times.

"You can thank those who abused the old system for the change" - my God, do you hear yourself? So a handicapped kid who has to struggle every time they need to use the bathroom in public should just chalk that up to...what?

There is a PERVERSE satisfaction in this thread that truly makes me sick. I mean, one person above who I can't even bring myself to quote said "They call it a disability for a reason".

That people who supposedly believe in Disney Magic think it's okay to say things like this, and that this board tolerates it - is enough to make me want to literally throw up.


I wold love to see if any of you people hiding behind a keyboard hating on kids with disabilities who struggle every moment of their lives cheering about this would say this to my nieces face. "Sorry, you are disabled - it's called a "dis-ability" for a reason."

None of the cowards who are saying this stuff could live one day in her life without losing it. Simply couldn't handle it. So big freaking deal that Disney made it a little easier for her (and, yet again, 99% of the people posting do not know how it actually worked, you actually wait longer at some attractions, it basically evened out).

Steve - some of the stuff in this thread is so sickening, I just don't see how this is a topic that can be discussed here. When you have people openly gloating about people with disabilities who now have a much more convoluted system to navigate when just going to the bathroom for them can be a logistical nightmare, there just is no middle ground for discussion - it's truly the sickest display I have ever seen, and I have to fight very hard not to wish every single one of them gets disabled and cannot walk and has to struggle through every inch of life - then we could see just how compassionate they really are and expect people to be.

What's funny is that my niece would be the first person to try to help them learn how to live in a wheelchair - because she's that kind of good person. Every single person who has "cheered" this should be ashamed of themselves - because even if you think it's right, gloating over it and telling disabled people where they can go and what they should and should not be entitled to is so crass and vulgar and downright disgusting.

as a parent of a disabled child, I couldn't agree more. I have had someone once tell me i was lucky to not have to wait in line. Excuse me? Am I lucky to have my son not be able to walk? Is my son lucky to not be able to walk but be able to get onto rides a littler quicker than others? If he were truly lucky, he would be able to walk like other kids. So once or twice a year, he is able to be lucky. Hence why we joined DVC and why we get APs and why I drive 1000 miles each way twice a year. so my son can be lucky for 10-15 days out of a 365 day year.