Frozen in Tokyo vs Epcot

[GiveMeTheMusic]

No, the point everyone ******** is missing is that they are not MEANT to be the same. WDW is getting a whole other land, Avatarland. Why does WDW have to get Scandinavia as well? Why is nobody ******** that DLR is not getting this amazing Frozenland? Or DLP? Man, DLR hasn't even got a Frozen RIDE yet. Talk about getting shafted. WDW can't get everything everyone else gets no more than the other parks do. Trying to compare a ride in one park to a land in another is just ******** for the sake of ******** really. There is so much REAL stuff to ***** about at WDW that some of this stuff is just pathetically funny how far some will go just to complain.

That's the logic. I don't expect you to get it though, much easier to just keep complaining. Have fun with that.
Edit. Wow, I use the b word a lot more than I thought I did, sorry everyone..

No one's talking about DLR or DLRP. This thread is for the sole purpose of comparing two active Frozen projects. One in TDR, and the other in WDW. Since they are both theme park projects based on the same film, comparisons are inevitable. And in this case, WDW is coming out the loser.

Avatar Land has absolutely nothing to do with this. Each park has different needs. TDS doesn't NEED Avatar Land (though rest assured, it was pitched to them). DAK NEEDS everything it can get - it's a half day park. TDS is already a full day park (more than one day, actually). Epcot NEEDS new attractions. DHS NEEDS so much it almost can't be estimated.

TDS is also a park with very tight space constraints (all of TDR is). WDW is not. So why is TDR getting a whole new land and WDW is losing an existing attraction when they have all the space they could ever dream of using?

I'll be the first to congratulate WDW on doing something right, and I hope Avatar Land turns out to be one of those things. Frozenstrom is not, and the highest grossing animated film on all time that has become nothing short of a cultural phenomenon deserves more than a ride overlay in Epcot.

There's absolutely no reason why WDW shouldn't be getting Frozen attractions on par with TDS' plan. Epcot could certainly use the capacity, as could DHS. Hell, even MK. These parks are all underbuilt and overcrowded. Instead, WDW is just redressing an existing ride. No capacity gained, no creativity exercised, no money spent.

It's cheap, it's sad and frankly, Frozen deserves more. So it's not for the sake of - it's comparing apples to apples and finding one of them to be inedibly rotten.

 

[Absimilliard]

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland, you might want to hold back on that sentiment.

I've been to Tokyo Disneyland/DisneySea multiple times, and the stuff their CM's do wouldn't fly with 21st century Americans who are blubbery, flubbery, and deserve a DAS return time or Re-Admission Pass or free churro for any perceived slight or any hint of a problem.

In Tokyo, the art of customer service is an honorable one, but if something goes wrong or a ride breaks down they don't automatically give out Re-Admission Passes or re-book your FP+ time for another ride. Instead, they apologize profusely, bow repeatedly, explain that it was a technical problem beyond their control, and then invite you to leave and enjoy the rest of the park until their ride can reopen and you can return to join the end of the 120 minute long Standby line again. If CM's tried that in America, the blubbery WalMart crowd in their ECV's wearing their DVC points on their sleeve would scream bloody murder until a $40,000 a year "Manager" in wrinkly Dockers arrived to make it rain extra Fastpasses and free churros.

If the OLC ever took over management of WDW or Disneyland, the high standards of behavior wouldn't just extend to the CM's staffing the rides and maintaining the facilities. The OLC would expect the same high standards of behavior from the paying customers, and that's something most entitled and lazy 21st century Americans who are "SPECIAL!" just wouldn't be able to live up to.

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland and understand the centuries old Japanese culture of honor and respect, be careful what you wish for.

I agree with you on that. I've been on a few rides that broke down and only once did I get a readmission. It was for getting evacuated off BTM at TDL and the cast members were not too sure how to proceed with me until I explained to one that I was an ex cast member from other resorts and to not mind me. I would just follow them to the exit. Once they understood that, evacuation was a breeze and now I only need to get evacuated off the WDW BTM to complete the set!

I got a "Skip the line" ticket at Universal Japan for getting stuck at Spiderman a few minutes in the scene with Dr. Octopus making us feel the heat. When we got off, they handed me and my sister re-admission passes.

Only once did WDW try to contain the re-admission passes issue and that was when Soarin' opened in 2005 at Epcot. It unfortunately did not last long and they went back to the free for all.

 

[JordanNite]

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland, you might want to hold back on that sentiment.

I've been to Tokyo Disneyland/DisneySea multiple times, and the stuff their CM's do wouldn't fly with 21st century Americans who are blubbery, flubbery, and deserve a DAS return time or Re-Admission Pass or free churro for any perceived slight or any hint of a problem.

In Tokyo, the art of customer service is an honorable one, but if something goes wrong or a ride breaks down they don't automatically give out Re-Admission Passes or re-book your FP+ time for another ride. Instead, they apologize profusely, bow repeatedly, explain that it was a technical problem beyond their control, and then invite you to leave and enjoy the rest of the park until their ride can reopen and you can return to join the end of the 120 minute long Standby line again. If CM's tried that in America, the blubbery WalMart crowd in their ECV's wearing their DVC points on their sleeve would scream bloody murder until a $40,000 a year "Manager" in wrinkly Dockers arrived to make it rain extra Fastpasses and free churros.

If the OLC ever took over management of WDW or Disneyland, the high standards of behavior wouldn't just extend to the CM's staffing the rides and maintaining the facilities. The OLC would expect the same high standards of behavior from the paying customers, and that's something most entitled and lazy 21st century Americans who are "SPECIAL!" just wouldn't be able to live up to.

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland and understand the centuries old Japanese culture of honor and respect, be careful what you wish for.

Utter nonsense.

 

[ChrisFL]

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland, you might want to hold back on that sentiment.

I've been to Tokyo Disneyland/DisneySea multiple times, and the stuff their CM's do wouldn't fly with 21st century Americans who are blubbery, flubbery, and deserve a DAS return time or Re-Admission Pass or free churro for any perceived slight or any hint of a problem.

In Tokyo, the art of customer service is an honorable one, but if something goes wrong or a ride breaks down they don't automatically give out Re-Admission Passes or re-book your FP+ time for another ride. Instead, they apologize profusely, bow repeatedly, explain that it was a technical problem beyond their control, and then invite you to leave and enjoy the rest of the park until their ride can reopen and you can return to join the end of the 120 minute long Standby line again. If CM's tried that in America, the blubbery WalMart crowd in their ECV's wearing their DVC points on their sleeve would scream bloody murder until a $40,000 a year "Manager" in wrinkly Dockers arrived to make it rain extra Fastpasses and free churros.

If the OLC ever took over management of WDW or Disneyland, the high standards of behavior wouldn't just extend to the CM's staffing the rides and maintaining the facilities. The OLC would expect the same high standards of behavior from the paying customers, and that's something most entitled and lazy 21st century Americans who are "SPECIAL!" just wouldn't be able to live up to.

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland and understand the centuries old Japanese culture of honor and respect, be careful what you wish for.

Brilliant!

 

[prfctlyximprct]

too bad...Tokyo is probably the best city on earth in a number of ways, and there's TONS of things to see and do outside of Disney. I've been there 3 times...now I want to live there.

Cities have never appealed to me.. to each their own!

 

[Rutt]

The whole fallacy of your point is that you are treating WDW as if it is one, single park.

epcot is getting a Maelstrom overlay. TDS is getting an entire land.

DAK is getting avatar
TDL is doubling its fantasyland area
DL got Carsland
DHS is getting another closure
etc

See- those are all separate parks. So don't compare the upgrades at WDW with TDS- Compare the upgrades at epcot with TDS- and its a joke.

That's not the fallacy though, the fallacy is in comparing a ride to an entire land. I am comparing WDW to Tokyo Disney as a whole, to Disneyland as a whole, to DLP as a whole.

But again, I'm not gonna make any ground here, so I'll leave you to your whine fest. Life's too short.

 

[Rutt]

Utter nonsense.

You've been?

 

[xstech25]

How long is Iger CEO for? When does this horrid mans tenure finish?

He's a movies man, and would rather invest in movie's than the parks. He probably see's the parks as 'oh they're just rollercoasters and naff rides', go make me a movie and get me an oscar - that's where he sees glory. It's his passion, it's where he's doing all his work.

I would counter this by saying some of the best and most expensive attractions Disney Parks has ever made were with direct green-lights from Iger (Cars Land, World of Color, Avatar).

 

[Rutt]

No one's talking about DLR or DLRP. This thread is for the sole purpose of comparing two active Frozen projects. One in TDR, and the other in WDW. Since they are both theme park projects based on the same film, comparisons are inevitable. And in this case, WDW is coming out the loser.

Avatar Land has absolutely nothing to do with this. Each park has different needs. TDS doesn't NEED Avatar Land (though rest assured, it was pitched to them). DAK NEEDS everything it can get - it's a half day park. TDS is already a full day park (more than one day, actually). Epcot NEEDS new attractions. DHS NEEDS so much it almost can't be estimated.

TDS is also a park with very tight space constraints (all of TDR is). WDW is not. So why is TDR getting a whole new land and WDW is losing an existing attraction when they have all the space they could ever dream of using?

I'll be the first to congratulate WDW on doing something right, and I hope Avatar Land turns out to be one of those things. Frozenstrom is not, and the highest grossing animated film on all time that has become nothing short of a cultural phenomenon deserves more than a ride overlay in Epcot.

There's absolutely no reason why WDW shouldn't be getting Frozen attractions on par with TDS' plan. Epcot could certainly use the capacity, as could DHS. Hell, even MK. These parks are all underbuilt and overcrowded. Instead, WDW is just redressing an existing ride. No capacity gained, no creativity exercised, no money spent.

It's cheap, it's sad and frankly, Frozen deserves more. So it's not ******** for the sake of ******** - it's comparing apples to apples and finding one of them to be inedibly rotten.

But you're comparing a ride which is only intended to be a ride to an entire land. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's like comparing the Lightning photo spot to Carsland. They're not intended to be the same thing. Different parks have different levels of different Disney products.

Life doesn't exist in a vaccuum where you can just say "yes, but we aren't talking about those parks because it makes our ridiculous comparisons look petty".

But as I said, carry on. Maybe next we can start a thread about how WDW got Be Our guest, the Beast castle, Gastons and Storytime with Belle in a beautifully themed area while DL only got a stage show? Talked about being jobbed.

 

[xstech25]

I've been to TDL and I think it's great but the new Fantasyland is way overdue, it looks like it's still in the 70s (even though the park opened in the 80s). Also they never have gotten any real upgrades to Tomorrowland it is still the original WDW Tomorrowland from the 70s, so while yes it's a wonderful property its not like they are constantly making amazing things at any more of a frequent rate than any of the other properties.

Disney is going to do what makes sense for each property. When DAK opened and they were like "oh crap we need more stuff, like now" we ended up with that awful Chester and Hester area. After DCA opened and it didn't have enough they added the Bugs Land area which isn't really spectacular either (it's cute but not anything special). To say Iger doesn't care about the parks at all is not entirely accurate, the stuff Iger has been doing to improve these parks is vastly superior to what those guys were doing before him. The DCA/DAK/HKDL expansions, and probably the upcoming DHS expansion, and the Shanghai park looks incredible as well. These are all big bucks even for a company like Disney. DCA's expansion itself was over $1 billion...I mean, theme parks don't just make a billion dollars that takes awhile for the investment to pay off.

 

[Skipper Dan]

So this is what the Oriental Land Company (they license from Disney) are doing with the Frozen attraction over in Tokyo -

Meanwhile in Orlando we get a cheap redo of the Maelstrom attraction. Look at time scale of the project too - ready and built in two years, and they're doing a Fantasyland expansion in that same time scale too.

But hey ho, let's rejoice with Iger and his profit loving leeches - a CEO who closes down attractions, and adds nothing. A disgrace to Disney parks, a man who in ten years from now we will look back and see the damage he has done to the parks with his lack of investment in anything.

To quote Andysol : The Oriental Land Company is spending $4.2 Billion on those 3 areas- Beauty and the beast, Alice in Wonderland, and The Frozen/Scandinavia area. $4.2 Billion. Let that sink in. The Oritental Land Company is a profit making business too.

Does Iger and Disney no longer have any pride to make anything this spectacular?

You sir, are a brilliant man. I do believe we would be BFF's, haha.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

But you're comparing a ride which is only intended to be a ride to an entire land. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's like comparing the Lightning photo spot to Carsland. They're not intended to be the same thing. Different parks have different levels of different Disney products.

That's the point. WDW made the wrong decision to do just a ride overlay instead of building an entire money printing land. They have the space, and the fact that they chose to replace an existing attraction is nothing short of mind blowing.

They could even let OLC pay for the development and just clone it for WDW. They won't even do that.

That aside, discard the land thing. Compare Frozenstrom the ride to the Frozen ride being built at TDS; everything else is out of the equation. Ride to ride, WDW again loses and American guests are shafted.

TDS is getting an elaborate, sophisticated original E ticket ride based on Frozen. Epcot is getting an overlay on an existing ride.

This isn't like comparing a Lightning photo op to Cars Land. Both parks are getting new Frozen attractions, and one of them is going to be a whole lot better than the other.

It is because American Disney guests don't understand what they're missing that Disney feels confident in providing us with a shoddy product at the highest prices in the world.

 

[marni1971]

I would counter this by saying some of the best and most expensive attractions Disney Parks has ever made were with direct green-lights from Iger (Cars Land, World of Color, Avatar).

The question would the have to asked why did they cost so much when they obviously cost more than they're worth.

 

[Absimilliard]

The question would the have to asked why did they cost so much when they obviously cost more than they're worth.

There is something very wrong when two ride systems, some 3-D screens and basic not even Six Flags dark ride worthy "theming" cost over 60-70 millions to build. Toy Story Mania should be costing a quarter of that!

Look at the new Six Flags dark ride, it will cost 15-20 millions to build at Six Flags Over Texas and that's with the best in the industry working on it. Who want to bet that would be a 100 + millions ride at Disney?

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

There is something very wrong when two ride systems, some 3-D screens and basic not even Six Flags dark ride worthy "theming" cost over 60-70 millions to build. Toy Story Mania should be costing a quarter of that!

Look at the new Six Flags dark ride, it will cost 15-20 millions to build at Six Flags Over Texas and that's with the best in the industry working on it. Who want to bet that would be a 100 + millions ride at Disney?

So true that other parks get much more for their money. Everything at Disney is inflated. Toy Story Land was $100 million for three off the shelf carnival rides. Luigi's Flying Tires at Disneyland was $100 million for a basic flat ride, and they are spending even more to completely rebuild it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think this is an apples to oranges comparison and more about timing than management.

WDW was just putting the finishing touches on new fantasyland when Frozen fever hit, spending another hundred million adding Frozen to fantasyland (where I agree it belongs) after they just finished a huge expansion would not only minimize it's impact but require them to demolish something they just built.

Tokyo Disney was in the planning stages of their expansion when Frozen fever hit, because they hadn't started physical construction yet all they had to do was change the plans and theme for their new area from Cinderella land (or whatever was originally planned for this space) to frozen land and they look brilliant. They most likely aren't even out any extra money for Frozen because they were already planning something for that space anyway.

Meanwhile WDW had to know Epcot was in desperate need for any new attraction, had a land that the movie location was loosely based on, and had a mediocre ride that could be re-themed relatively inexpensively. Not only are they getting Frozen in a park but doing it in a park that desperately needs something new.

I'd love Frozen in MK but have a hard time blaming WDW for not destroying a brand new area to put it in.

 

[marni1971]

I'd love Frozen in MK but have a hard time blaming WDW for not destroying a brand new area to put it in.

The reskinned tents?

 

[wm49rs]

I think this is an apples to oranges comparison and more about timing than management.

WDW was just putting the finishing touches on new fantasyland when Frozen fever hit, spending another hundred million adding Frozen to fantasyland (where I agree it belongs) after they just finished a huge expansion would not only minimize it's impact but require them to demolish something they just built.

Tokyo Disney was in the planning stages of their expansion when Frozen fever hit, because they hadn't started physical construction yet all they had to do was change the plans and theme for their new area from Cinderella land (or whatever was originally planned for this space) to frozen land and they look brilliant. They most likely aren't even out any extra money for Frozen because they were already planning something for that space anyway.

Meanwhile WDW had to know Epcot was in desperate need for any new attraction, had a land that the movie location was loosely based on, and had a mediocre ride that could be re-themed relatively inexpensively. Not only are they getting Frozen in a park but doing it in a park that desperately needs something new.

I'd love Frozen in MK but have a hard time blaming WDW for not destroying a brand new area to put it in.

But ruining a pavilion and the area adjacent to it in EP is fine and dandy?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Now that Tokyo's planning on doing it, I think WDW can move IASW and place Frozen back there.

 

[JordanNite]

Everyone going on about Avatar land - let's just wait and see the finished product before we all start jumping up and down. I mean they've already spent 3 years (?) in the planning stage !!!! Already from some reports they scaled the plans back from it's original design.

If anything about the Fantasy Land expansion taught us, is that Disney (well, Iger) tend to scale back alot of the ideas during the build process. The original Fantasy Land was a fair bit more elaborate, and the mine train was alot different to the generic coaster it has become. In essence the Fantasy Land expansion was creating more walking space, it really didn't give us any major attractions - the length of time it took to build was beyond the pale - again a mark of cost cutting and doing it cheaply.

You can see why 'numbers man' Iger chose to go with Avatar. It's the biggest bx office film of all time, those numbers would have appealed to him ... but when you move away from the figures, the film wasn't great (look at the reviews), doesn't have much in the way of a lasting legacy (say compared to Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc), and it's debatable whether Cameron will ever commence work on the sequels - he's already delayed them again.

You can hazard a bet if Cameron doesn't do the sequels the whole land will be scaled back down - and once again all we will really get is more pathways for people to walk. Oh, and shops. Because Iger loves shops.