Frozen in Tokyo vs Epcot

[ThemeParkTraveller]

One of these projects is a cheap and quick overlay on an existing ride without changing the ride system or layout - just redressing the scenes and installing new ones (hence the term overlay). The other is a $400 million+ land with multiple attractions, shops and restaurants centered around Frozen.

As a point of comparison, the port of Scandinavia for TDS will cost more than WDW's entire New Fantasyland expansion.

What's even more impressive is that the $400 million is for the major E-ticket alone. Compare that with the what, $70-80 million that Maelstrom is getting for its makeover?

 

[Admiral01]

Looking at the above art and the space available, which isn't very much (technically 2/3 Arabian Coast), if they're not expanding the monorail/perimeter road or bridging to the parking lot - which I anticipated they would - it looks like Lost River Delta might be losing:
-Hangar Stage (converted to Scandinavian theme, at foreground center)
-the new Mickey & Friends Trails
-its first bridge (replaced by the bridge in above art)
-the C-3PO seaplane (to left of current bridge).

It also looks to be about 90% Arendelle, with the big Mountain E-ticket, the village, the castle and troll forest trail.

I thought that bridge would be a new addition. It is too far to the corner of the park to be the existing bridge over to the Lost River Delta (Indy area). At least, it looks like it is a totally new construction.

 

[JordanNite]

What's even more impressive is that the $400 million is for the major E-ticket alone. Compare that with the what, $70-80 million that Maelstrom is getting for its makeover?

Not a chance in hell the overlay of Maelstrom is costing $70 million. A lick of paint, some new cardboard cut outs don't cost $70 million.

 

[wm49rs]

How long does Iger have left to go?

Anyone know? We have to hope that he may greenlight a few projects at the end of his tenure - and let the next CEO pick up the tab !


Not a chance in hell the overlay of Maelstrom is costing $70 million. A lick of paint, some new cardboard cut outs don't cost $70 million.

As mentioned before, he's under contract until 2018.

And I believe the price tag includes the changes to the ride/pavilion, along with the M&G building....

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Not a chance in hell the overlay of Maelstrom is costing $70 million. A lick of paint, some new cardboard cut outs don't cost $70 million.

That was the number quoted by insiders here. And yes, it probably does include the M&G building.

Frozen attraction budget was somewhere between $70-80 million when last time I heard.

And before you think that is a great sum realize it likely includes the meet-and-greet and that the Monsters redo of Superstar Limo at DCA was around $30 million if memory serves me.

 

[jamarmiller]

........................
After they spend all day waiting in line for Frozenstrom, they can then use their FP+ to see a 17 year old nighttime show.

hey hey hey, I love that 17 year old nighttime show at Epcot , I hope they never change it ! I love seeing it every year and it being the same, takes me back to my childhood and my kids love it too

 

[FigmentJedi]

After they spend all day waiting in line for Frozenstrom, they can then use their FP+ to see a 17 year old nighttime show.

Considering World Showcase is becoming character dumping ground, the thought of what a fireworks show for modern Epcot would look like makes me cringe. I'm glad they aren't fixing what isn't really broken.

Now if they had the self-control to not fill it with movie tie-ins and did something like a World of Color-esque fusion of Illuminations and Tapestry (Puppets on waterscreens!), I'd totally be game for that.

When you think about it where would Cars and Avatar fit at TDR anyway? Guess they don't feel like shoehorning IP's in their parks *looks at Epcot*.

Carsland would have involved tearing out Tokyo's entire Rivers of America complex. So yeah...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

hey hey hey, I love that 17 year old nighttime show at Epcot , I hope they never change it ! I love seeing it every year and it being the same, takes me back to my childhood and my kids love it too

 

[FigmentJedi]

I'd say the only thing that truly dates Reflections of Earth as a leftover from 2000 is the We Go On finale. Otherwise its pretty timeless in content telling the story of Earth's formation, life and us. If they gave it some new toys and spruced up the presentation, it could just keep going on and on.

 

[DDLand]

Plus, Cars Land should remain exclusive to DCA (and Avatar to DAK).

Never understood this argument. You could make the exclusivity point between WDW, DLP, and DLR. I get that. How does building a Cars Land in Tokyo where 90%+ of the visitors are Japanese? It doesn't hurt me as an WDW guest when they do that.

When I experienced Cars Land I wasn't thinking "hah, this is the only one in the world." I was thinking "this place is meticulously well designed."

 

[DDLand]

This land does look extremely great. It's almost a 100% clone of Arendelle. I'm pretty impressed this is going to take what was in the movie and make it reality Cars Land style.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I'd say the only thing that truly dates Reflections of Earth as a leftover from 2000 is the We Go On finale. Otherwise its pretty timeless in content telling the story of Earth's formation, life and us. If they gave it some new toys and spruced up the presentation, it could just keep going on and on.

I:ROE is a great show. A really old, really tired, great show. My response earlier was more a response to the nostalgic attachment to an entertainment offering. That is exactly why an entertainment offering shouldn't stick around for a generation. You'll be stuck with it. If you change it, even with something much better, the peasants will storm the castle with pitchforks and torches.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Never understood this argument. You could make the exclusivity point between WDW, DLP, and DLR. I get that. How does building a Cars Land in Tokyo where 90%+ of the visitors are Japanese. It doesn't hurt me as an WDW guest when they do that.

When I experienced Cars Land I wasn't thinking "hah, this is the only one in the world." I was thinking "this place is meticulously well designed."

It was more of a personal statement than one that has any real business sense. As someone who likes to travel between the different Disney resorts around the world, I strongly prefer their offerings to be as differentiated as possible. Would I enjoy a Cars Land in TDL just as much as the one in DCA? Yes, but I probably wouldn't rush to fly there and check it out. Unique/exclusive attractions give me greater incentive to return and see something that I couldn't elsewhere. I know that I will be booking a flight to Tokyo as soon as the new port is open.

 

[prfctlyximprct]

It should be.

Maybe as my life goes on, that will change.. but I doubt it. The older I get the more I wanna escape people.. don't know how I like Orlando!

 

[Nick Wilde]

Sigh....

 

[Rutt]

I literally can't understand what kind of logic you're going for. Tokyo doesn't NEED Cars Land, Rats or Avatar and no one was saying they were. You obviously have never been to TDR - if you saw the level both of their parks are at, you wouldn't even be trying to make this point. Here we are comparing and contrasting two projects:

- Frozen overlay of Maelstrom in Epcot (WDW)
- New Scandinavian port with at least one major Frozen E Ticket in Tokyo DisneySea (TDR)

One of these projects is a cheap and quick overlay on an existing ride without changing the ride system or layout - just redressing the scenes and installing new ones (hence the term overlay). The other is a $400 million+ land with multiple attractions, shops and restaurants centered around Frozen.

As a point of comparison, the port of Scandinavia for TDS will cost more than WDW's entire New Fantasyland expansion.

We're getting a low capacity low budget redo that's thematically dubious at best. TDR is getting a top of the line land that looks every bit as beautiful, detailed and immersive as Cars Land, and reliable insiders have indicated the marquee attraction is going to be cutting edge and very expensive.

WDW is getting the shaft on Frozen, and fans and shareholders alike should be livid that Disney is squandering their most valuable original IP in decades at their flagship resort and not exploiting it to its full money-minting potential.

Disney knows a Maelstrom overlay is good enough for WDW guests, and that they will just love it. So why bother spending more and doing the job right? Frozenstrom will pack 'em in for a fraction of the price.

After they spend all day waiting in line for Frozenstrom, they can then use their FP+ to see a 17 year old nighttime show.

No, the point everyone is missing is that they are not MEANT to be the same. WDW is getting a whole other land, Avatarland. Why does WDW have to get Scandinavia as well? Why is nobody that DLR is not getting this amazing Frozenland? Or DLP? Man, DLR hasn't even got a Frozen RIDE yet. Talk about getting shafted. WDW can't get everything everyone else gets no more than the other parks do. Trying to compare a ride in one park to a land in another is just for the sake of really. There is so much REAL stuff to about at WDW that some of this stuff is just pathetically funny how far some will go just to complain.

That's the logic. I don't expect you to get it though, much easier to just keep complaining. Have fun with that.
Edit. Wow, I use the b word a lot more than I thought I did, sorry everyone..

 

[Rutt]

Considering World Showcase is becoming character dumping ground, the thought of what a fireworks show for modern Epcot would look like makes me cringe. I'm glad they aren't fixing what isn't really broken.

Now if they had the self-control to not fill it with movie tie-ins and did something like a World of Color-esque fusion of Illuminations and Tapestry (Puppets on waterscreens!), I'd totally be game for that.


Carsland would have involved tearing out Tokyo's entire Rivers of America complex. So yeah...

You see, now there's a legitimate gripe. The mutilation of Epcot is a travesty, a complete joke. Of this I agree. But it's not because they're not building Arrendelle in Orlando.

 

[ChrisFL]

I could not justify going to Tokyo just to go to Disney... I love Disney but traveling to Tokyo has never been on my life goals list.

too bad...Tokyo is probably the best city on earth in a number of ways, and there's TONS of things to see and do outside of Disney. I've been there 3 times...now I want to live there.

 

[Rutt]

too bad...Tokyo is probably the best city on earth in a number of ways, and there's TONS of things to see and do outside of Disney. I've been there 3 times...now I want to live there.

We have friends that moved there last summer. Guess who got to use that as an excuse to visit TDL this coming summer!!! Can't wait!!

 

[TP2000]

Sigh. I want the OLC to own WDW.

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland, you might want to hold back on that sentiment.

I've been to Tokyo Disneyland/DisneySea multiple times, and the stuff their CM's do wouldn't fly with 21st century Americans who are blubbery, flubbery, and deserve a DAS return time or Re-Admission Pass or free churro for any perceived slight or any hint of a problem.

In Tokyo, the art of customer service is an honorable one, but if something goes wrong or a ride breaks down they don't automatically give out Re-Admission Passes or re-book your FP+ time for another ride. Instead, they apologize profusely, bow repeatedly, explain that it was a technical problem beyond their control, and then invite you to leave and enjoy the rest of the park until their ride can reopen and you can return to join the end of the 120 minute long Standby line again. If CM's tried that in America, the blubbery WalMart crowd in their ECV's wearing their DVC points on their sleeve would scream bloody murder until a $40,000 a year "Manager" in wrinkly Dockers arrived to make it rain extra Fastpasses and free churros.

If the OLC ever took over management of WDW or Disneyland, the high standards of behavior wouldn't just extend to the CM's staffing the rides and maintaining the facilities. The OLC would expect the same high standards of behavior from the paying customers, and that's something most entitled and lazy 21st century Americans who are "SPECIAL!" just wouldn't be able to live up to.

Unless you've been to Tokyo Disneyland and understand the centuries old Japanese culture of honor and respect, be careful what you wish for.