Frozen in Tokyo vs Epcot

[GLaDOS]

Thanks, that map helps. I fully expected they would push out into the parking lot in the area I was thinking. The two times I've been there for extended stays, I don't believe I've ever seen that lot even remotely close to full. In fact, this last time they had made a huge Mickey head out of hundreds of traffic cones, right in the middle of the lot, visible from the Monorail. Crowd levels were very high during both of my trips too (but when are they NOT?).

But putting it where they are could mean some pretty cool views as the Monorail passes by. That wouldn't have been an option in the other location.

Yup, when I was there they did the same thing in the parking lot. Only thing I can figure is they have some other plans for that area.

 

[DisneyparkFreak]

He also lost nearly half a billion dollars on expensive flops like John Carter of Mars and The Lone Ranger ... his job was pretty much on the line. He got lucky with Frozen. It's well known in the trade (especially if you look at the marketing budget) Iger didn't anticipate Frozen would be such a massive hit - that movie saved him.

Movies do bring you back investment on your capital within a few years. But i don't agree that investing in the parks won't bring you back profits quickly. Look at other parks who have invested in their parks, look at the jump in attendance - you see double digit growth.

Had Iger had the vision to build a Frozen land, we would have seen double digit growth at any park. But he doesn't have the love, vision to want to do that.

You have great visionaries, who love what they do, who leave lasting legacies - think Steve Jobs, Walt Disney himself - Bob Iger is a corporate man, he is nothing else.

He is an utter disgrace to these parks - even the most ardent of Disney fans can't be a little dissapointed with his tenure.

I agree that he is a "Corporate man", but honestly thats his job. I'm not saying he's right, but it is the truth. There are very few people like Steve Jobs or Walt Disney. Iger isn't one of them. I'm not sure that there will ever be anyone who makes a lasting legacy at Disney in regards to being pro-park. Its too big of a company and there are too many moving parts. P&R is just a cog in the wheel, just like ABC or LucasFilm. I'm not privy to their priorities but I highly doubt that P&R is at the top. Their chief concerns is franchises and how they can take an IP and spread it out to as many arms of the company as they can. Frozen is a great example. That's one reason why its such a cash cow. Iger is a franchise man not a P&R man, nor is he a Movie man. He doesn't think like that, he thinks more spherically and sees how an investment can reap dividends among the many moving parts. As a stock holder thats who I am looking for to lead a company. As a fan I wish he/they would pay more attention to WDW.

Steve Jobs thought the same way (very sphericall), the difference is that Jobs was an innovator and Iger isn't. Walt Disney was a dreamer who made his dreams come true. Iger isn't.

 

[raymusiccity]

DisneySea will pull this off. It will be Scandanavian themed, with a Frozen presence (instead of the other way around). That corner of the park will be for this addition. I'm no Frozen fan. I hate what is happening to Norway and Maelstrom (and I hate Nemo in the Seas, among other things).

This, however, will be a great addition to Tokyo Disneyland. DisneySea is a fantastic theme park. It looks like this will be a good addition.

'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off'

 

[BrerJon]

although I agree with much of what you re saying its also not fair to criticize things we don't know much about like ROL...

True, I'm just comparing the old show to things like World Of Color, Fantasmic! and Dreams and assuming Rivers will be along the same lines.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off'

Do you actually have an opinion or thought to share? Because I don't get it. There's no way anyone in their right mind could look at Epcot's Frozen and TDS' Frozen and not realize that WDW is getting the shaft.

 

[Rutt]

I'm pretty upset that DisneySea is getting this too. It just seems like all the other parks get all the same stuff and only wdw gets left out all the time.... Maybe I'll just fly out to Tokyo and check this out. While I'm at it, I'll go through Tokyo's Carsland, then go on their Ratatouille ride in that wonderful Paris themed area, ride their new Ironman ride, and then finish the day in Avatarland land......

What do you mean Tokyo isn't getting all that? I thought it had to have every single thing like WDW apparently does?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I'm pretty upset that DisneySea is getting this too. It just seems like all the other parks get all the same stuff and only wdw gets left out all the time.... Maybe I'll just fly out to Tokyo and check this out. While I'm at it, I'll go through Tokyo's Carsland, then go on their Ratatouille ride in that wonderful Paris themed area, ride their new Ironman ride, and then finish the day in Avatarland land......

What do you mean Tokyo isn't getting all that? I thought it had to have every single thing like WDW apparently does?

What in the world are you talking about? I'm honestly trying to comprehend your post.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Okay. We got a new FL expansion. A new parade. Animal Kingdom is getting an expansion and a new night show. DHS is about to get a complete overhaul. While it's not what the OLC is doing in Japan, it's a step in the right direction.

DHS "has been getting a complete overhaul" for ages now. Tokyo will be done with their expansions before DHS actually starts building something.

 

[rioriz]

The one positive thing is we may at least get a good glimpse of what the meet and greet castle will look like...knowing TDO they are just piggy backing off Tokyos design to save money...I do have high hopes for the aesthetics of the meet and greet castle if it looks anywhere like this one

 

[the.dreamfinder]

High res Scandinavia concept art

 

[RandySavage]

Looking at the above art and the space available, which isn't very much (technically 2/3 Arabian Coast), if they're not expanding the monorail/perimeter road or bridging to the parking lot - which I anticipated they would - it looks like Lost River Delta might be losing:
-Hangar Stage (converted to Scandinavian theme, at foreground center)
-the new Mickey & Friends Trails
-its first bridge (replaced by the bridge in above art)
-the C-3PO seaplane (to left of current bridge).

It also looks to be about 90% Arendelle, with the big Mountain E-ticket, the village, the castle and troll forest trail.

 

[Rutt]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm honestly trying to comprehend your post.

Really? Ok here you go:
Not every park gets the same stuff. Tokyo getting Scandinavia doesn't mean wdw is 'getting the shaft'.
Tokyo is not getting Carsland, Paris, Avatarland, is Tokyo getting the shaft too?

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Looking at the above and the space available (which isn't alot (technically 2/3 Arabian Coast) if they're not expanding the monorail/perimeter road or bridging to the parking lot), it looks like Lost River Delta might be losing:
-Hangar Stage (converted to Scandinavian theme, at foreground center)
-the new Mickey & Friends Trails
-it's big bridge (replaced by the bridge in above art)
-the Indiana Jones C-3PO seaplane (to left of bridge).

According to another insider, the Hangar Stage is not being affected nor is the bridge to Lost River Delta. The shot in the foreground is converting the current transition zone from Port Discovery to Lost River Delta (mostly a featureless wooded area right now). This will be a new bridge and entrance a short distance from the bridge to Indy and the C-3PO plane. I'm not sure about the character trails, but they have ample undeveloped space to work with without having to remove a popular (and rather elaborate) M&G.

 

[Bocabear]

Really? Ok here you go:
Not every park gets the same stuff. Tokyo getting Scandinavia doesn't mean wdw is 'getting the shaft'.
Tokyo is not getting Carsland, Paris, Avatarland, is Tokyo getting the shaft too?

Tokyo never gets the shaft! they do everything right...

 

[raymusiccity]

Do you actually have an opinion or thought to share? Because I don't get it. There's no way anyone in their right mind could look at Epcot's Frozen and TDS' Frozen and not realize that WDW is getting the shaft.

It's probably premature to judge concept art against an attraction/ M&G, still under construction.

The forced perspective, mini-Beast castle looked really promising in the concept art.

I'm still waiting on the 'fantasyland forest' to make an appearance!

 

[Travel Junkie]

Really? Ok here you go:
Not every park gets the same stuff. Tokyo getting Scandinavia doesn't mean wdw is 'getting the shaft'.
Tokyo is not getting Carsland, Paris, Avatarland, is Tokyo getting the shaft too?

Toyko and WDW are both getting Frozen attractions. Comparing the two, WDW appears to be getting the shaft. This is an apple’s to apple’s comparison. The other examples are apple’s to oranges. That being said, Carsland and Avatar were pushed by WDI to OLC. OLC said no thank you.

 

[Mike S]

Really? Ok here you go:
Not every park gets the same stuff. Tokyo getting Scandinavia doesn't mean wdw is 'getting the shaft'.
Tokyo is not getting Carsland, Paris, Avatarland, is Tokyo getting the shaft too?

When two rides based on the same thing (Frozen) are being built and designed around the same time and one is clearly vastly superior (Tokyo), yes, the other one (WDW) is clearly getting "the shaft" so to speak. It shows that they are definitely capable of doing more, much more. But they're completely fine since people like you will defend them to the bitter end.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Toyko and WDW are both getting Frozen attractions. Comparing the two, WDW appears to be getting the shaft. This is an apple’s to apple’s comparison. The other examples are apple’s to oranges. That being said, Carsland and Avatar were pushed by WDI to OLC. OLC said no thank you.

I love Cars Land, but I'm glad OLC turned it down. If my memory is correct, they proposed paving over Rivers of America/Tom Sawyer Island for it. It would have been a shame to lose such a charming and scenic location despite how visually impressive Cars Land would be. Plus, Cars Land should remain exclusive to DCA (and Avatar to DAK).

 

[Mike S]

Toyko and WDW are both getting Frozen attractions. Comparing the two, WDW appears to be getting the shaft. This is an apple’s to apple’s comparison. The other examples are apple’s to oranges. That being said, Carsland and Avatar were pushed by WDI to OLC. OLC said no thank you.

When you think about it where would Cars and Avatar fit at TDR anyway? Guess they don't feel like shoehorning IP's in their parks *looks at Epcot*.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Really? Ok here you go:
Not every park gets the same stuff. Tokyo getting Scandinavia doesn't mean wdw is 'getting the shaft'.
Tokyo is not getting Carsland, Paris, Avatarland, is Tokyo getting the shaft too?

I literally can't understand what kind of logic you're going for. Tokyo doesn't NEED Cars Land, Rats or Avatar and no one was saying they were. You obviously have never been to TDR - if you saw the level both of their parks are at, you wouldn't even be trying to make this point. Here we are comparing and contrasting two projects:

- Frozen overlay of Maelstrom in Epcot (WDW)
- New Scandinavian port with at least one major Frozen E Ticket in Tokyo DisneySea (TDR)

One of these projects is a cheap and quick overlay on an existing ride without changing the ride system or layout - just redressing the scenes and installing new ones (hence the term overlay). The other is a $400 million+ land with multiple attractions, shops and restaurants centered around Frozen.

As a point of comparison, the port of Scandinavia for TDS will cost more than WDW's entire New Fantasyland expansion.

We're getting a low capacity low budget redo that's thematically dubious at best. TDR is getting a top of the line land that looks every bit as beautiful, detailed and immersive as Cars Land, and reliable insiders have indicated the marquee attraction is going to be cutting edge and very expensive.

WDW is getting the shaft on Frozen, and fans and shareholders alike should be livid that Disney is squandering their most valuable original IP in decades at their flagship resort and not exploiting it to its full money-minting potential.

Disney knows a Maelstrom overlay is good enough for WDW guests, and that they will just love it. So why bother spending more and doing the job right? Frozenstrom will pack 'em in for a fraction of the price.

After they spend all day waiting in line for Frozenstrom, they can then use their FP+ to see a 17 year old nighttime show.