Frozen in Tokyo vs Epcot

[Figment2005]

Everyone going on about Avatar land - let's just wait and see the finished product before we all start jumping up and down. I mean they've already spent 3 years (?) in the planning stage !!!! Already from some reports they scaled the plans back from it's original design.

If anything about the Fantasy Land expansion taught us, is that Disney (well, Iger) tend to scale back alot of the ideas during the build process. The original Fantasy Land was a fair bit more elaborate, and the mine train was alot different to the generic coaster it has become. In essence the Fantasy Land expansion was creating more walking space, it really didn't give us any major attractions - the length of time it took to build was beyond the pale - again a mark of cost cutting and doing it cheaply.

You can see why 'numbers man' Iger chose to go with Avatar. It's the biggest bx office film of all time, those numbers would have appealed to him ... but when you move away from the figures, the film wasn't great (look at the reviews), doesn't have much in the way of a lasting legacy (say compared to Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc), and it's debatable whether Cameron will ever commence work on the sequels - he's already delayed them again.

You can hazard a bet if Cameron doesn't do the sequels the whole land will be scaled back down - and once again all we will really get is more pathways for people to walk. Oh, and shops. Because Iger loves shops.

I can't take you seriously. In every single post, you strive to badmouth everything in WDW. Avatar will be the most immersive area in any park, mark my words. New Fantasyland, the version we got, was UPGRADED from its intended form. Movie critics are just that, critical. They will never say a movie is good unless it is boring to the majority of humanity.

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

I can't take you seriously. In every single post, you strive to badmouth everything in WDW. Avatar will be the most immersive area in any park, mark my words. New Fantasyland, the version we got, was UPGRADED from its intended form. Movie critics are just that, critical. They will never say a movie is good unless it is boring to the majority of humanity.

Wasn't TLM supposed to be an E-Ticket?

 

[Mike S]

I can't take you seriously. In every single post, you strive to badmouth everything in WDW. Avatar will be the most immersive area in any park, mark my words. New Fantasyland, the version we got, was UPGRADED from its intended form. Movie critics are just that, critical. They will never say a movie is good unless it is boring to the majority of humanity.

Yeah, real great "update" on the Mine Train there

Green is the original track layout, Orange is what we got. And yes it would've only taken up the space that the current version takes up.

 

[ChrisFL]

To clarify, the Mine Train was developed but nearly completely shelved for Pixie/Fairy whatever mini land was going to happen, but then Tom Staggs replaced Jay Rasulo and decided there wasn't enough things that boys would be interested in.

Having said that, Mike S is correct, the actual mine train ride we received was much shorter than it should have been.

 

[matt9112]

Iger likes profits. Not investments. The next CEO after him can deal with the fall in attendance.

this....modern CEOs dont give a crap about the future....much like a head of state once they leave they sip on drinks until they die and could care less about who next picks up the torch.

 

[marni1971]

New Fantasyland, the version we got, was UPGRADED from its intended form. Movie critics are just that, critical. They will never say a movie is good unless it is boring to the majority of humanity.

New Fantasyland is a downgrade from what was planned. The original had both a longer mine train and Pixie Hollow.

Rasulo came along and dropped them and inserted a trio of meet n greets instead of mine train and kept the tents to save money. Staggs came along and reinserted a smaller train ride but kept the tents for a cheap, minimally themed "new" area to market. And we lost a dark ride to compensate for the lack of MG.

So it was upgraded. Upgraded from a poor proposal. And downgraded from the original proposal.

Edit - I see this was mentioned above.

 

[twebber55]

I can't take you seriously. In every single post, you strive to badmouth everything in WDW. Avatar will be the most immersive area in any park, mark my words. New Fantasyland, the version we got, was UPGRADED from its intended form. Movie critics are just that, critical. They will never say a movie is good unless it is boring to the majority of humanity.

haha he comes across as a young kid trying to prove himself to everybody

glad he has passion though

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I think this is an apples to oranges comparison and more about timing than management.

WDW was just putting the finishing touches on new fantasyland when Frozen fever hit, spending another hundred million adding Frozen to fantasyland (where I agree it belongs) after they just finished a huge expansion would not only minimize it's impact but require them to demolish something they just built.

Tokyo Disney was in the planning stages of their expansion when Frozen fever hit, because they hadn't started physical construction yet all they had to do was change the plans and theme for their new area from Cinderella land (or whatever was originally planned for this space) to frozen land and they look brilliant. They most likely aren't even out any extra money for Frozen because they were already planning something for that space anyway.

Meanwhile WDW had to know Epcot was in desperate need for any new attraction, had a land that the movie location was loosely based on, and had a mediocre ride that could be re-themed relatively inexpensively. Not only are they getting Frozen in a park but doing it in a park that desperately needs something new.

I'd love Frozen in MK but have a hard time blaming WDW for not destroying a brand new area to put it in.

Tokyo's Frozen area is not part of their Fantasyland expansion, it's a new "port" (land) for Tokyo DisneySea.

It's taking up an empty pad, something all four parks at WDW have.

Comparing Frozenstrom to TDS' Frozen land is apples to apples.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I honestly don't understand why so many people are so quick to defend utter mediocrity. Isn't Walt Disney World the flagship resort? Shouldn't it get the best of the best? I don't get it at all.

It's okay to say we're getting the short end of the stick.

 

[JordanNite]

I honestly don't understand why so many people are so quick to defend utter mediocrity. Isn't Walt Disney World the flagship resort? Shouldn't it get the best of the best? I don't get it at all.

It's okay to say we're getting the short end of the stick.

That's what i don't get. Why are there some people in here quick to defend 'mediocrity' ?

They have no affliation to Iger or Disney as a company, yet will defend to the hilt everything or anything to do with Disney. As tourists surely, we should be demanding more, not less.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I honestly don't understand why so many people are so quick to defend utter mediocrity. Isn't Walt Disney World the flagship resort? Shouldn't it get the best of the best? I don't get it at all.

It's okay to say we're getting the short end of the stick.

Many people here and elsewhere will only ever go to WDW. The last thing they want to hear after spending X number of $ on a trip (or DVC membership, or APs) is that other Disney parks are better.

 

[JordanNite]

Many people here and elsewhere will only ever go to WDW. The last thing they want to hear after spending X number of $ on a trip (or DVC membership, or APs) is that other Disney parks are better.

So you are saying they are in some denial type state ?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The reskinned tents?

That, or- if they really didn't want to affect an area they just "re-did"- then they could yank out the speedway. Either one would be plenty of room and very well done if they desired.

Sure there's space but both require removing something and would still provide minimal value for investment. They just spent a fortune adding NFL, there was no financial incentive to build another new attraction in that area. I guess they could have just saved Frozen for the next fantasyland expansion in 25 years but then they'd get bashed for doing nothing.

As a tourist and Disney addict I wish they had put it where either the tent or speedway are but can also see that financially that didn't make sense at the time.

Many people here and elsewhere will only ever go to WDW. The last thing they want to hear after spending X number of $ on a trip (or DVC membership, or APs) is that other Disney parks are better.

I could list 100 things I'd like to see done at WDW and I think both Disneyland and DCA are better parks than any of the WDW parks but WDW is so immersive it provides an escape the other parks just don't. I think it's a matter of perspective rather than blind loyalty, I see tons of problems with WDW but can easily overlook them because when I think of WDW I think of staying at POFQ, the restaurants, resort hopping, Wishes, the Castle, boating around 7seas, the safari at AK, wandering around Epcot, and the thousands of other things that you can't do at DLR, Toyko, Paris, or HK.

Right or wrong I think WDW gets away with more (from the occasional tourist like myself) because it has so much more to do than the other parks that are just parks. I can spend a week at WDW and not do what is currently there, the fact DCA just got an amazing redo or Tokyo is getting a better Frozen doesn't change that.

If I were a local going every week I'd be much more critical but as a once every 2-3 year visitor WDW can't be matched, even with all it's flaws.

 

[Rutt]

The question would the have to asked why did they cost so much when they obviously cost more than they're worth.

Another fair question, an it seems to apply to a lot of areas in life now. (I'm looking at you cellphone bill)

 

[Rutt]

So you are saying they are in some denial type state ?

There are definitely people in denial in here, probably the same people arguing things nobody's ever said (that Other parks are not better than WDW).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So you are saying they are in some denial type state ?

I'm saying people who have no interest in visiting TDR (or DLR, or HKDL or DLP), probably don't care to hear about what goes on elsewhere. What happens at those resorts doesn't mean anything to them.

@Vegas Disney Fan , I agree that each Disney resort offers something worth seeing (and that certain WDW exclusive attractions like Hall of Presidents or American Adventure, don't get the love they deserve even from the fan community), but that doesn't excuse any poor choices made for them.

 

[Mike S]

I'm saying people who have no interest in visiting TDR (or DLR, or HKDL or DLP), probably don't care to hear about what goes on elsewhere. What happens at those resorts doesn't mean anything to them.

@Vegas Disney Fan , I agree that each Disney resort offers something worth seeing (and that certain WDW exclusive attractions like Hall of Presidents or American Adventure, don't get the love they deserve even from the fan community), but that doesn't excuse any poor choices made for them.

 

[Rutt]

Tokyo's Frozen area is not part of their Fantasyland expansion, it's a new "port" (land) for Tokyo DisneySea.

It's taking up an empty pad, something all four parks at WDW have.

Comparing Frozenstrom to TDS' Frozen land is apples to apples.

Only in your mind are a ride and a new land comparable.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Only in your mind are a ride and a new land comparable.

You're right, they're not.

A new elaborate land is 10 times better than a makeover to an existing ride that wasn't really amazing to begin with.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You're right, they're not.

A new elaborate land is 10 times better than a makeover to an existing ride that wasn't really amazing to begin with.

I don't think anyone would argue with that. I think the better question is whether a Frozen ride and new meet and greet is better than nothing because the reality is those were the most likely options at WDW.