From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[PhotoDave219]

Do I think the signs should be more explicit regarding what dangers could potentially be encountered? Absolutely. But Disney may have felt they were legally covered by the "No Swimming" Signs. Per a CNN article:
When it comes to alligator attacks, courts in Florida have held that a swimmer's disregard of "No Swimming" and other warning signs were the sole cause of the serious injuries.
Due to the vast number of languages spoken by Disney guests, any signs that warn of reptilian risks will probably need to include some sort of pictorial aspect as well. And you know some parent is going to whine that the picture scared their precious snowflakes and gave them nightmares, thus "ruining their whole vacation". Disney probably felt hanged if they did/hanged if they didn't, and just hoped they'd never have to deal with the issue.

Signage isn't the issue..... As for years many of us have enjoyed the poly/g Fla beach without issue & without seeing any.

So what changed? Food.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Signage isn't the issue..... As for years many of us have enjoyed the poly/g Fla beach without issue & without seeing any.

So what changed? Food.

Oh, I agree! But that's a complex chain of responsibility that your average news consumer won't bother to take the time to grasp. They are going to be blaming either the parents or Disney, and the signs are any easy target.

 

[G00fyDad]

Maybe someone with more knowledge about this can answer, but wouldn't there be an easier way of removing the gators from the waters on property? Maybe (don't laugh at this possibly absurd idea) using sound as a way to deter alligators from staying in the water? Some sort of sound emitting device that is only audible under the water that annoys the alligators enough to make them leave the water. Once they are out of the water Disney can wrangle them up and relocate them. Any alligator that is not caught would probably just leave since it would need a water source from time to time and the ones on Disney property would be unusable to them. I know, it sounds stupid. Just sitting here thinking of ways to mitigate this issue other than policing every guest for feeding the wildlife. Which is impossible.

 

[Nemo14]

Maybe someone with more knowledge about this can answer, but wouldn't there be an easier way of removing the gators from the waters on property? Maybe (don't laugh at this possibly absurd idea) using sound as a way to deter alligators from staying in the water? Some sort of sound emitting device that is only audible under the water that annoys the alligators enough to make them leave the water. Once they are out of the water Disney can wrangle them up and relocate them. Any alligator that is not caught would probably just leave since it would need a water source from time to time and the ones on Disney property would be unusable to them. I know, it sounds stupid. Just sitting here thinking of ways to mitigate this issue other than policing every guest for feeding the wildlife. Which is impossible.

If it were that easy, don't you think it would have been implemented long ago, all over the tourist areas of FL?

 

[GhostHost1000]

I respectfully suggest you read this post by @fosse76, who indicates he is a Federal prosecutor:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...seven-seas-lagoon.914483/page-89#post-7270419

In addition, it's increasingly clear that Disney was aware of a growing problem caused by Guests feeding alligators and did nothing substantial to address it.

Some might be fed up with our "I'm gonna sue" society but it does appear that Disney was negligent.

What do you think Disney should do about guests feeding the alligators though? I would think that would be very difficult to stop just like any guest feeding birds and ducks

 

[Rinx]

I'm a little surprised how much attention this is getting nationally compared to other deaths on property in years past. Today (6/17) the headline on papers in Boston is "TRAGIC KINGDOM". I don't quite remember this much attention after the monorail accident...unless I remember incorrectly?

 

[G00fyDad]

If it were that easy, don't you think it would have been implemented long ago, all over the tourist areas of FL?

You would think so. I was just asking a question. I did say it was kind of stupid.

 

[FrankLapidus]

But with the number of people feeling like their reports were blown off, is it something all the CMs know or is it a case of, "if the right CM at the resort hears about it they call the Wildlife team that handles them. If the wrong CM's knows, or they aren't instructed to take reports seriously then it falls through a crack."

How many of these reports were actually made and subsequently actually blown off?

That's the question I'm asking because everything I've seen and experienced in twenty years of going to WDW is the complete opposite to what these stories are alleging.

I was told by a CM in May that they operate under a "better safe than sorry policy the the resort"; doesn't matter what the animal is or whether it poses a danger, if a concern is brought to a CM it will at the be checked out and dealt with if necessary. Irrespective of there being flaws in some of these stories that didn't quite make sense to me, I just find it very hard to believe that someone could report that they had just been very nearly attacked by an alligator and given the brush off at any resort, theme park or hotel, let alone one on Disney property.

 

[JohnD]

Signage isn't the issue..... As for years many of us have enjoyed the poly/g Fla beach without issue & without seeing any.

So what changed? Food.

Yes signage. I think guests' feeding the alligators have also contributed to the problem. I believe it when people say guests in the bungalows have been feeing them. I can also imagine them sitting out on the deck, enjoying a drink, and snacking and crumbs/debris ending up in the water. The media was making this point even as I typed!

 

[Nemo14]

I've been reading through a lot of news reports and stories on line about this horrible incident, and it really amazes me how many people were surprised to learn that there were real gators on Disney property. After all, it's DisneyWorld, where everything is in a magical bubble, sprinkled with pixie dust. The only "real" animals there live safely in Animal Kingdom, right?
A couple of years ago, we were at Blue Springs State Park when we saw a huge gator rear his head up vertically and let out a tremendous terrifying roar that echoed down the river. I had never heard or seen anything like that in all my years of visiting Florida, and it frankly scared the daylights out of me. A man standing nearby said to his wife - "That's just a robotic thing they put there for the tourists." He was serious, and I found his ignorance nearly as scary as that roar.

 

[Skibum1970]

I've been reading through a lot of news reports and stories on line about this horrible incident, and it really amazes me how many people were surprised to learn that there were real gators on Disney property. After all, it's DisneyWorld, where everything is in a magical bubble, sprinkled with pixie dust. The only "real" animals there live safely in Animal Kingdom, right?
A couple of years ago, we were at Blue Springs State Park when we saw a huge gator rear his head up vertically and let out a tremendous terrifying roar that echoed down the river. I had never heard or seen anything like that in all my years of visiting Florida, and it frankly scared the daylights out of me. A man standing nearby said to his wife - "That's just a robotic thing they put there for the tourists." He was serious, and I found his ignorance nearly as scary as that roar.

I am in Ohio and my sister has lived in Naples, FL since 1988/1989. I went to visit her in 1991 and the first thing that she told me was, "If there is a pond, there is probably a gator in it. You just won't know big." I have used that logic for all bodies of water at WDW. However, many guests forget that poisonous snakes and alligators are all around the parks. Most people up here are all concerned that Disney has beaches that they encourage guests to use. The term "attractive nuisance" is going to become popular. I still think everything is okay as there have been very few attacks. Just add a couple signs. And, parents watch where your kids are.

 

[The Mom]

The brain eating amoeba is in every lake, pond, canal, and even the beaches in FL! It is not just at Disney! It is also extremely rare.

It also gets into your brain through the nasal passages when you get water in your nose- which happens when your face is in the water while swimming. Or even water skiing. But not while wading. There ARE other infections you can get if you have any cuts, etc - or you get them while in the water, such as a scrape against an oyster bed, etc.

 

[ParentsOf4]

What do you think Disney should do about guests feeding the alligators though? I would think that would be very difficult to stop just like any guest feeding birds and ducks

Signage is the obvious first step.

The new situation with the bungalows might be key. Perhaps people checking into the bungalows should receive additional instruction/warning.

Disney also needs to enforce a strict "no feeding the alligators" policy, even make a public show of it to make it clear to Guests that such behavior will not be tolerated.

Station a Cast Member at water's edge during movie nights to keep Guests away. Alligators are more active at night and with movie nights typically held on Disney's beaches, Disney needs to take extra precautions when alligators and people are likely to be in close proximity.

The program I watched was made before this tragedy. It emphasized that alligators are more active at night. It also emphasized the dangers of people feeding alligators. It's similar to the bear problem facing Rangers at national parks.

WDW Guests need to be better informed and, if I correctly understand the law, Disney is legally responsible for informing them and enforcing the policy.

 

[drew81]

People keep saying that Disney's Insurance Co. won't settle. Isn't Disney self insured? @ParentsOf4 can you help us on this?

 

[Nemo14]

Signage is the obvious first step.

The new situation with the bungalows might be key. Perhaps people checking into the bungalows should receive additional instruction/warning.

Disney also needs to enforce a strict "no feeding the alligators" policy, even make a public show of it to make it clear to Guests that such behavior will not be tolerated.

The program I watched was made before this tragedy. These wildlife professionals understood the dangers of people feeding alligators. It's much like the problems facing Rangers at national parks concerning bears.

WDW Guests need to be better informed and, if I correctly understand the law, Disney is legally responsible for informing them and enforcing the policy.

There will always be the "thrill-seeker" guests who will insist on feeding them because it's exciting to do something that's forbidden.

 

[MereMickey]

I've been reading through a lot of news reports and stories on line about this horrible incident, and it really amazes me how many people were surprised to learn that there were real gators on Disney property. After all, it's DisneyWorld, where everything is in a magical bubble, sprinkled with pixie dust. The only "real" animals there live safely in Animal Kingdom, right?
A couple of years ago, we were at Blue Springs State Park when we saw a huge gator rear his head up vertically and let out a tremendous terrifying roar that echoed down the river. I had never heard or seen anything like that in all my years of visiting Florida, and it frankly scared the daylights out of me. A man standing nearby said to his wife - "That's just a robotic thing they put there for the tourists." He was serious, and I found his ignorance nearly as scary as that roar.

I can completely back this statement. Guests I believe at times make up more of the 'magic' than Disney! It is really funny what they think is 'real' and what is 'fake'. Here's a fun one that will make you face palm. A fellow CM from AK once told me that a guest asked when the dome over AK would stop producing the fake rain storm because they really didn't like the rain. Yup. A dome over AK. How they came up with that one or who convinced them of that is beyond me. I don't know how he kept a straight face (he was absolutely cracking up inside) and explain to this over imaginative guest that this was Florida and Disney didn't need to create a dome over AK to create rain water to help the ecosystem.

 

[majortom1981]

Oh, I agree! But that's a complex chain of responsibility that your average news consumer won't bother to take the time to grasp. They are going to be blaming either the parents or Disney, and the signs are any easy target.

The problem is that disney has had this happen before in 1986. They were sued about poor signage. It looks like the case was settled though. This lawsuit can point to the previous 1986 incident and say they still havent updated the signs and disney has been negligent . Also if disney does have a program of removing alligators it does prove that disney knew they were there.

This will end up getting settled though. I would think before a

People keep saying that Disney's Insurance Co. won't settle. Isn't Disney self insured? @ParentsOf4 can you help us on this?

Disney will settle. There was a case almost just like this one in 1986. The parents sued disney saying there wasnt any signs and that disney knew about the alligators and it looks like Disney settled. This case would look really bad especially if the lawyers suing disney pointed to the previous case and the current signs.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There will always be the "thrill-seeker" guests who will insist on feeding them because it's exciting to do something that's forbidden.

Yes, and Disney has cameras everywhere. Disney's security needs to immediately react when it sees Guests violating a "no feeding the alligators" policy.

This is now a very public safety issue. There is no excuse for Disney to not strictly enforce this.

 

[disneypearl]

Yes, and Disney has cameras everywhere. Disney's security needs to immediately react when it sees Guests violating a "no feeding the alligators" policy.

This is now a very public safety issue. There is no excuse for Disney to not strictly enforce this.

I think that the signs should say "no feeding wildlife" with added warnings of fines or penalties. Guest feeding any wildlife would possibly attract alligators.

 

[JohnD]

Many were asking, where are the animal rights activists on this. Here you go: http://www.globalanimal.org/2016/06...ve-alligators-killed-in-search-for-boys-body/

Here's the money quote: "“Yet now a child and four alligators, who were doing only what came naturally to them, have paid with their lives,” she continued."

There is also this: "While attacks like this are rare, it does not justify the killing of animals who were only acting naturally."

That's right, the child is on the same level as an alligator. There is plenty of criticism to go around: lack of signage, guests feeding the alligators, possibly less capture and release to other areas. But killing an alligator at a time when the child couldn't be found isn't one of them.