From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
If this report is true, it may take, oh, a few hundred years or so before the profits from those bungalows make up for the damages they've caused WDW with this incident.

Hey, I would gladly be the first one to stand up and say "it's not their fault" or "freak accident" .... As I've suggested in the past 90+ pages.

But if they were aware there was a problem? And aware guests were feeding gators? Then I'll be the first one to crucify them.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
If Disney knew they had an alligator problem and knew guests from the bungalows were feeding them.... There's a major problem at hand.

If that's the case, people need to be fired, from George K on down.
It's not just the bungalows. I stayed at Beach Club villas and there was a small gator and a turtle in the canal that runs next to the parking lot. They hung out by the bridge every day. I'm sure they got fed a lot. This gator was about 2ft long so not a serious threat, but when he grows up...that's a problem.
 

Laura

22
Premium Member
If Disney knew they had an alligator problem and knew guests from the bungalows were feeding them.... There's a major problem at hand.

If that's the case, people need to be fired, from George K on down.

I have come to that realization over the course of today, as well. At first I didn't see how Disney could possibly have expected this because it hasn't happened in the history of the resort, but all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. As soon as they were aware of people feeding the gators in SSL, drastic measures should have been taken to warn guests of the danger.
 

WEDwaydatamover

Well-Known Member
Does Disney have an alligator problem or maybe alligators have a Disney problem?

It was their terf before it was ours to vacation in . I'm just playing Devils Advocate.

Bottom line: Disney needs better warning signs. This is the one area where they should double dumb-down! There are a lot of idiots out there.

It wouldn't hurt to clean up the lakes and lagoons either they have been neglected for decades now. They were not designed or filtered with 2016 in mind. Drainage/ flooding-yes. Pollution-no.


"Certain" parents should be keeping a better eye on their children via Twitter if they cant put down the selfie stick for 2 minutes.

This is not directed at the involved family in any way.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Does anyone actually stay in those bungalows? Somehow I call BS on that article.
People stay there. I've never witnessed anyone feeding gators from the bungalows, but I could see how it might be tempting if one swims up right near your bungalow. People don't realize that feeding wild animals make them less afraid of humans which is never a good thing if it's a dangerous animal.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Hey, I would gladly be the first one to stand up and say "it's not their fault" or "freak accident" .... As I've suggested in the past 90+ pages.

But if they were aware there was a problem? And aware guests were feeding gators? Then I'll be the first one to crucify them.
I think for me it's somewhere in between. Was it Disney's fault that this happened of course not, but could having a sign there made a difference it's possible. They've marketed these resorts as beachfront resorts, brought in tourists from around the world who have no idea that there are gators in the lakes and failed to give them the slightest warning. I think this is 90% a freak accident and 10% Disney's fault.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I have come to that realization over the course of today, as well. At first I didn't see how Disney could possibly have expected this because it hasn't happened in the history of the resort, but all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. As soon as they were aware of people feeding the gators in SSL, drastic measures should have been taken to warn guests of the danger.

..... Assuming this is the case.

Which at this point? I think that is a distinct possibility.
 

prfctlyximprct

Well-Known Member
People stay there. I've never witnessed anyone feeding gators from the bungalows, but I could see how it might be tempting if one swims up right near your bungalow. People don't realize that feeding wild animals make them less afraid of humans which is never a good thing if it's a dangerous animal.

If one swam right up to that 50,000 a night hut above water, the last thing I'd do is feed it. I'd be running for the hills. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a tad... on the price. But seriously.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
If one swam right up to that 50,000 a night hut above water, the last thing I'd do is feed it. I'd be running for the hills. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a tad... on the price. But seriously.
I think people feel safe because the bungalow is elevated over the water so you are looking down from your deck at the gator in the water below. If one showed up in the plunge pool that would be freightening.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
If Disney knew they had an alligator problem and knew guests from the bungalows were feeding them.... There's a major problem at hand.

If that's the case, people need to be fired, from George K on down.

When talking with my Dad, he recalled a time when he was walking by Hourglass Lake, and a guy said, "Hey, you just missed it. A gator came up out of the water and grabbed a duck." So my Dad mentioned it to the first CM he saw, and got basically a whatever. That seems to be a theme throughout these other reported encounters.

It seems logical to me, that even though most CMs can't do a thing about it, that there should be a way to at least track sightings. Either a CM or their supervisor should be able to login to somewhere or send an email that basically says Gator sighted. Time. Location. And then that generates a report to the Wildlife team who can then go about their business. But now I'm wondering if there is even a system that gets the knowledge to the right people?
 

Filby61

Well-Known Member
I have come to that realization over the course of today, as well. At first I didn't see how Disney could possibly have expected this because it hasn't happened in the history of the resort, but all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. As soon as they were aware of people feeding the gators in SSL, drastic measures should have been taken to warn guests of the danger.

It's clear from the news conferences that Florida Fish & Wildlife officials have worked closely with Disney on the "gator problem" for years prior to this tragedy.

Disney is going to be asked if Fish & Wildlife informed them that Central Florida's alligator population has been growing, and that the increasing population has been squeezed into smaller habitats as a result of real estate development, increasing the chances of human-alligator contact on Disney's tourist property.

Disney is going to be asked if it was informed of the danger of alligators being habituated to human food. Disney is going to be asked about its management policies and record keeping of the incidents that former employees are claiming in the media about management's lack of action when employees reported guests feeding alligators.

In front of news conference cameras or behind courtroom doors, Disney is eventually going to be asked about everything that it knew, everything that it did and every management decision that it made during every year of the decades that its man-made lakes devolved from sparkling clean recreational venues to swampy alligator habitats.
 
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hopemax

Well-Known Member
How do you remove every alligator in 40+ miles of wetlands?

Just asking a stupid question as on a property like this they are and have always been around. My mom said she remembers seeing them in the 80's. I don't but I was a kid. Looking for pictures.

You don't. But if you "remove them when you know about them," it works a lot better when there is a system for the right people to "know" about them.
 

MereMickey

Member
I apologize in advance for this super long post, but I wanted to share my feelings about the situation and my own personal stories about Florida and Gators.

Oh, man this was just a freak accident. :( I won't lie… the first thing I thought when I heard the few snippets that were coming out at first I did immediately think "What did the guest do to make this situation happen?" I really hate that I thought that why at first, but as a former WDW CP CM I have seen a bit too much to know that 7 out of 10 times, it is usually the guests fault. After learning all the details, this just was a freak incident. This was a perfect storm that had several factors working together that unfortunately resulted in this tragedy. I don't think there is one party that is to blame here. The chaos theory just sucks at times.

To add my own personal story about fresh water lakes and gators, I remember back when I was a CM (summer 2006 thru winter 2007) I lived in Chatham (one of the CP housing apartment complexes) that was directly across from Mickey's Retreat. Mickey's Retreat (for those that may not know about it) is this awesome little recreation area that is only open to CM's and their family and friends. It has tennis courts, a few pools, a little white sand beach with hammocks right on a lake, picnic area, etc. We had our 'gradation' party after completing the program. I made great use of it on days off. It was great walking across the street to this relaxing place without the hustle and bustle of the parks. I digress. I remember the guy I was dating down there at the time specially telling my this story about how he knew one of the guys he hung out with occasional had climbed the fence with his gf after hours when the recreation area was closed for the day one time. This guy and his gf wanted to skinny dip in the lake and they did. After telling me this story and asking me if this was a good idea for us to try since my bf liked to be mischievous, I remember flat out telling him those two were bat crazy for doing that. He was like "Why?!' I explained to that yes, skinny dipping is fun especially on a hot night in Florida, but not when there are gators waiting for easy prey to snatch up. He totally was unaware that their was gators in the lake and I couldn't believe he didn't even think of that. It was a fresh water lake and I can tell you there was no sight to the bottom of it. God only knows how many of those gators were lurking around in there. No thanks! Haha!

The reason I seemed to be way more aware of said situation is that on my first or second visit to WDW when I was either 5 or 10 (I can't remember which trip but it was definitely the 1st or 2nd one) we were on a tour up at Cape Canaveral at the Space Center and I remember the tour guide letting us know that to stay from the water canals because a family had been out on their little boat (somewhere else in FL) doing some family fishing and the child was snatch by the gator and killed. I was scared beyond anything you can imagine. Being a small child, I had nightmares that entire vacation it would happen to me. Basically being scared by that story and also having the fear of God put in by my parents to stay away from the fresh water lakes and ponds because there could be gators and snakes. That is something that I just remember being made to feel scared of as a child so it never crosses my mind to even stick a toe in any fresh water in FL. Plus, the bacteria. Yuck! LOL But I also don't knock those that have do those activities back when it was allowed at Disney because there really wasn't a direct threat at the time. The gator population was may more manageable for Disney standards because there weren't as many parks and resorts back in the day. Being that Disney has expanded by huge amounts, unfortunately the gators were going to set up shop even more.

I don't think I would be doing anything different from what this family was doing on a nice summer night while down in Disney. My now husband and I would always make some time at night to walk around the resort area to sit in the beach chairs, rocking chairs, or just wander the sand. Slim chance, but a gator can come up onto the beach and do that at anytime. It just is that Disney has been really lucky it hasn't happened before. Disney does have history on their side and I believe better signage (which is other resorts do mention the gators, though it wasn't at the GF) and better barriers between the wildlife and guests.

I think this one hits home a little more than we all expected because so many of us have grown up going to the parks with nary a problem with many things. This I believe makes each of us wonder what random safe activities we have done around the resorts while relaxing that could have changed in 30 seconds if something freakish happened. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and I just can't imagine what they are going through.

tl/dr: I love Disney and crazy things can happen. Still love Disney and know this will be a lesson for WDW and the guests. It reminds us remember just because the "Disney Bubble" makes us feel safe, we do need to be aware of our surroundings a bit better.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You don't. But if you "remove them when you know about them," it works a lot better when there is a system for the right people to "know" about them.
I don't have any personal knowledge of the procedures, but the news reports were saying that Disney did have an active system in place to monitor and remove gators if they got too close to areas near guests.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I don't have any personal knowledge of the procedures, but the news reports were saying that Disney did have an active system in place to monitor and remove gators if they got too close to areas near guests.

But with the number of people feeling like their reports were blown off, is it something all the CMs know or is it a case of, "if the right CM at the resort hears about it they call the Wildlife team that handles them. If the wrong CM's knows, or they aren't instructed to take reports seriously then it falls through a crack."

My Mom had this situation all the time, over a much less serious matter: the pressed coin machines. My Dad and I collect them, so when she worked in an area that had them, she got to know the outside people responsible for maintaining them. When they got jammed she called the number, and they would be out in a few hours or the next day. But she was the only person in her area that knew the procedure or cared enough to follow it. And the person shared that was often the case throughout property. They would come across broken machines all the time, that they weren't notified were broken.
 
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