FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[ford91exploder]

Thanks for the link. The article essentially is a rehash of speculation done on these threads years ago when FastPass+ first was announced.

For now, Disney's strategy is to encourage preplanning. The idea being that once guests have planned days at WDW before they arrive, they are less likely to spontaneously spend days outside of WDW after they arrive.

There is merit to Disney's approach. People tend to stick to appointments. If I have a TSM FP+ selection on Tuesday, a Soarin' FP+ selection on Wednesday, and a SDMT FP+ selection for Thursday, which one of these am I going to skip?

The problem with any "pay-to-play" system is that its direct financial gains could be offset by indirect financial losses elsewhere.

In WDW's case, a pay-to-play system could lead to a decline in hotel occupancy, largely cancelling out its financial benefit. Why pay Disney's exorbitant prices to stay onsite for Extra Magic Hours and the 60-day FP+ booking advantage when it's cheaper to stay offsite and buy "FastPass Express" (or whatever they might call it) so the family can enjoy shorter lines during normal park hours?

Any system Disney implements must not jeopardize WDW's lucrative hotel business. Remember, WDW has 27,000 onsite rooms with rack rates considerably higher than comparable offsite rooms. (For comparison, Universal has 4200 rooms and only 2400 of these receive 'free' Express Pass.)

People sometimes forget that there is a ton of cash being made at WDW's hotels, over $2 billion annually.

This is not to say that Disney hasn't considered pay-to-play systems, only that the pros and cons of such systems are being weighed carefully.

As Iger and Rasulo repeatedly have emphasized to Wall Street, the primary goal of MyMagic+ is happier guests, the idea being that happier guests spend more.

We will see.

Remember Rasulo ALSO said MM gives us a bigger slice of people's WALLET which I have always taken as the overarching principle guiding MM+ which is why I don't find charging for FP to be out of the realm of the possible outcomes and I think it's actually likely.

My WAG on how it will manifest initially itself is TDO will offer a PRIORITY FP package at the 7 month mark for a tidy upcharge and/or offer an additional FP choice when the Disney vacation package is paid off so Disney can benefit from the float.

Regardless of Rasulos public bleatings FP+ has always been about monetizing what used to be included in general admission and as @ParentsOf4 notes it requires a careful balancing act to ensure chargeable FP does not negatively impact existing revenue streams. As such I think we will soon see more FP only attractions and soon 'experiments' with paid FP+

Just my 0.02

 

[ParentsOf4]

Remember Rasulo ALSO said MM gives us a bigger slice of people's WALLET which I have always taken as the overarching principle guiding MM+ which is why I don't find charging for FP to be out of the realm of the possible outcomes and I think it's actually likely.

What CFO Jay Rasulo rather bluntly stated back in 2013 was:

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."​

This is a reference to the preplanning aspect of FP+. The idea being that once we have booked FP+ selections for every day of our vacations, we are more likely to spend more days of our vacations at WDW. This is easily measured by counting gate clicks.

Considering WDW's attendance was up only about 1-2% for the first 9 months of FY2014, this aspect of MM+ doesn't seem to be working.

In the next earnings call, expect Disney to shift attention, focusing on margins. Margins are up. However, as I've explained elsewhere, this is happening largely because Disney has stopped throwing money at MM+.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

again, tl;dr because there's ten pages of crap here and i'm still trying to unpack. but i rode tsmm again with a fastpass+ while in a wheelchair. someone pages and pages back mentioned something about tsmm considering using this idea to help ease ada compliance. i wanted to go further into this.

there have been rumors that disney is planning on adding a third track to tsmm; there are currently two. one track serves disabled/wheelchair guests exclusively, but there are only two cars dedicated to this track. all other cars go to the normal track. firstly, i'm uncertain where they would add this third track; there is not a lot of room in the loading area anyway. secondly, i'm uncertain how this would positively affect anyone's wait time. i read one post where someone said that two tracks would be dedicated to fp+ guests, one track to standby and for ada compliance. i don't see the need for an additional track for this - just put more cars on the standby/ada line.

when we rolled up with an fp+ we went through some of the 'normal' queue and then were corralled into the wheelchair queue. along with about 18 other people; maybe 6 of whom were in chairs with their family/ride along friends. the wheelchair queue is slanted upwards.... and is short. short enough that myself and two other wheelchair parties were forced to wait on a hill, which is not easy to hold yourself on when you're in a manual wheelchair. the reason this queue was so long is because there are only two dedicated cars on this track - enough to sit six people 'normally', and then one chair that cannot transfer with one guest. if you can transfer, this seat goes unused. so these two dedicated cars regularly only carry six people.

we waited well over 25 minutes to ride. a manager finally came over and started taking some parties who could transfer to the 'normal' track. the 'normal' queue was moving well; outside i heard most people saying it was under 10 minutes wait. however those of use on the wheelchair queue waited almost three times that to ride because of the lack of dedicated cars on that track.

so the idea that adding a third track would mean two dedicated tracks to 'normal' queue and one for standby/ada compliance means nothing unless you talk about how many cars are dedicated to each track. during this trial, it was said that they were booking fp+ to the ride's capacity, basically so there was never any downtime for any cars. just my observations and two cents. it's still a fun ride and i actually beat my dh on it both times we rode. he can't understand why since he's really good at video games and i never, ever win at stuff like that.

 

[Herc11]

again, tl;dr because there's ten pages of crap here and i'm still trying to unpack. but i rode tsmm again with a fastpass+ while in a wheelchair. someone pages and pages back mentioned something about tsmm considering using this idea to help ease ada compliance. i wanted to go further into this.

there have been rumors that disney is planning on adding a third track to tsmm; there are currently two. one track serves disabled/wheelchair guests exclusively, but there are only two cars dedicated to this track. all other cars go to the normal track. firstly, i'm uncertain where they would add this third track; there is not a lot of room in the loading area anyway. secondly, i'm uncertain how this would positively affect anyone's wait time. i read one post where someone said that two tracks would be dedicated to fp+ guests, one track to standby and for ada compliance. i don't see the need for an additional track for this - just put more cars on the standby/ada line.

when we rolled up with an fp+ we went through some of the 'normal' queue and then were corralled into the wheelchair queue. along with about 18 other people; maybe 6 of whom were in chairs with their family/ride along friends. the wheelchair queue is slanted upwards.... and is short. short enough that myself and two other wheelchair parties were forced to wait on a hill, which is not easy to hold yourself on when you're in a manual wheelchair. the reason this queue was so long is because there are only two dedicated cars on this track - enough to sit six people 'normally', and then one chair that cannot transfer with one guest. if you can transfer, this seat goes unused. so these two dedicated cars regularly only carry six people.

we waited well over 25 minutes to ride. a manager finally came over and started taking some parties who could transfer to the 'normal' track. the 'normal' queue was moving well; outside i heard most people saying it was under 10 minutes wait. however those of use on the wheelchair queue waited almost three times that to ride because of the lack of dedicated cars on that track.

so the idea that adding a third track would mean two dedicated tracks to 'normal' queue and one for standby/ada compliance means nothing unless you talk about how many cars are dedicated to each track. during this trial, it was said that they were booking fp+ to the ride's capacity, basically so there was never any downtime for any cars. just my observations and two cents. it's still a fun ride and i actually beat my dh on it both times we rode. he can't understand why since he's really good at video games and i never, ever win at stuff like that.

This is slightly inaccurate. There are two tracks, if you board in rows 1-4 you get one track and if you board in rows 5-8 you get the other. Those who get on in the wheelchair area always go to the second track because they always stop at the back part of the station before getting to the ride.

And there are two wheelchair vehicles but only one is out on the track at a time; the other is kept in maintenance. Up to two vehicles at a time can be tagged to go to wheelchair. One is the special 6 person wheelchair vehicle and the other is a regular vehicle so that it can be released back into normal operation when there is not enough demand for the second vehicle.

How to keep the wait down for wheelchairs has always been a problem at TSM though it has gotten more manageable with DAS. Adding a third track will make managing wheelchair guests even more difficult especially if the new track doesn't have wheelchair access.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is one more consideration to make. They can only have so many people with disabilities on the ride at one time. If an emergency evacuation happens they need to be able to get everyone out and there are limited people to do that. That is why, back in the day, they had handicapped cars incorporated within the regular train. (notably WoM) They were spaced so that there weren't too many people that needed extra help to evacuate in case of a problem.

 

[ParksAndPixels]

I have been a ride op years (non-Disney) ago and that's exactly why this happens. It comes across like the parks don't care but yes, it is a safety issue. This can be especially chaotic in fire situation.

 

[Magicart87]

Went to DHS soley to visit this attraction having never ridden it before. Closed on visit. Very ed at the time because a "4-rides" park just doesn't cut it. I had tried to reserve a fastpass+ day one of the 30=day fastpass reservation window and never could get a reservation. I hated and still HATE this park. The sooner it's overhauled...the better.

 

[DManRightHere]

Yup, that's the day I stop buying park tickets and use my DVC to stay onsite and do other non-Park things.

Ironically, FP+ has made my stays more complicated not easier. I don't have time to browse a shop or make an ADR. I'm too busy rushing from one FP+ window to another.

I actually enjoyed FP+. It is going to change how we plan next time though.

We usually park hop a lot, and chose most of our FP's for magic kingdom in the afternoon or night. Next time I'm thinking one park a day, FP grouped together for the afternoon or morning. If we change our mind, we can change the FP times. We'll probably still keep park hopper just in case it's a really bad park day.

We really enjoyed not having to make double trips everywhere for paper fastpasses.

 

[BrianV]

I actually enjoyed FP+. It is going to change how we plan next time though.

We usually park hop a lot, and chose most of our FP's for magic kingdom in the afternoon or night. Next time I'm thinking one park a day, FP grouped together for the afternoon. If we change our mind, we can change the FP times. We'll probably still keep park hopper just in case in a really bad park day.

We really enjoyed not having to make double trips everywhere for paper fastpasses.

That is the biggest advantage...not having to rush all the way over to toy story mania to get a fast pass and then head back to the family who are enjoying themselves.

 

[DManRightHere]

I am still a believer that to shorten lines Disney needs to modify the rides. I don't know what the average ride capacity per hour is for each ride but I will use a conservative 1000 guests per hour. Now add a small section of track/ water whatever the ride uses and add another line with adding cars/boats, if you have 3 lines, standby, fastpass , and pay to ride and you have added additional areas to board ride vehicles with added vehicles you could boost per hour capacity to maybe 3000 per hour thereby shortening lines, of course paying their cast members more than $ 8.00 an hour might get them to load/unload guests faster.

If i understand this correctly, just adding more loading/unloading areas will not increase the capacity of a ride, the entire ride has to be built for the capacity. Most of the attractions are about maxed out for vehicles.

 

[ford91exploder]

What CFO Jay Rasulo rather bluntly stated back in 2013 was:

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."​

This is a reference to the preplanning aspect of FP+. The idea being that once we have booked FP+ selections for every day of our vacations, we are more likely to spend more days of our vacations at WDW. This is easily measured by counting gate clicks.

Considering WDW's attendance was up only about 1-2% for the first 9 months of FY2014, this aspect of MM+ doesn't seem to be working.

In the next earnings call, expect Disney to shift attention, focusing on margins. Margins are up. However, as I've explained elsewhere, this is happening largely because Disney has stopped throwing money at MM+.

Margin is also up because of cuts like the rumored request for 3 million for hotels which has led to filthy hotels and the elimination of nuts at Mizners and other similar quality cuts

 

[Goofyernmost]

Margin is also up because of cuts like the rumored request for 3 million for hotels which has led to filthy hotels and the elimination of nuts at Mizners and other similar quality cuts

I don't think that the words filthy, nuts and cuts should ever be used in the same sentence.

 

[MarkTwain]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, while consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

Great post.

But it begs the question, why does Disney continue to build them? Surely they realize by now they're killing their own business?

 

[CJR]

Great post.

But it begs the question, why does Disney continue to build them? Surely they realize by now they're killing their own business?

The truth is that even if this is the case, the parks are breaking records in terms of spending and attendance. It's not all doom and gloom for Disney.

 

[ford91exploder]

Great post.

But it begs the question, why does Disney continue to build them? Surely they realize by now they're killing their own business?

The short term cash infusion is probably the best answer

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I don't know if this was posted earlier but I seem to remember some discussion about "paid fast pass" several pages ago and this article explores the possibility that Disney could consider that.

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...stpass-bets-people-will-pay-to-not-stand.aspx

"Want to visit Epcot and ride Soarin' once? You pay the normal ticket price. Want to ride it five times, you can, if you pay extra."

 

[ford91exploder]

"Want to visit Epcot and ride Soarin' once? You pay the normal ticket price. Want to ride it five times, you can, if you pay extra."

I think THIS post is probably going to be the first incarnation, While I don't like it it is fair to guests everyone can ride it once for 'free' repeats cost money. Increasing the cost is the time honored way of allocating a scarce resource.

 

[Jon81uk]

"Want to visit Epcot and ride Soarin' once? You pay the normal ticket price. Want to ride it five times, you can, if you pay extra."

In a similar way to Universal Express pass. Use standby for free OR pay for Express to ride once OR stay in one of our hotels and ride Express as much as you like!

 

[wdisney9000]

We really enjoyed not having to make double trips everywhere for paper fastpasses.

Are you taIking about riding the same attraction twice in one day? If so, I dont see any advantage with FP+ for riding the same ride twice in one day. With FP+ you have to use all of your FP+ selections before you can get additional ones. Lets say you want to ride Soarin twice. You book a FP+ for 11 am and your other FP selections end around 3 pm. If all the FP+ for Soarin arent gone by then (strong possibility on a semi-busy day) you will get a return time between 5 or 7 pm at the earliest. Thats a lot of time between rides, much more time than it would take to return to get a paper FP. So now you have two options. One, leave the park and hit your room for a short break and return later, or two, stay in the park and wait it out. Both options make park hopping a hassle. Only way around this would be to arrive at rope drop and hit Soarin first,...but, that goes against what most people exclaimed was great about MM+, how it eliminated the need to be at rope drop.

With legacy you could have just rode Soarin at 11 am and immediately obtained a second FP when exiting. Simple. Only downside to this is that you would be standby for TT or you could just get there at rope drop and hit em both up quickly, which some people really enjoy AND it works great for park hopping. Im not saying legacy was better,...but legacy was better for me. Glad you had/are having a good trip though. I cant tell if your still there by looking at your trip countdown, lol. If so, have a good trip.

 

[wdisney9000]

That is the biggest advantage...not having to rush all the way over to toy story mania to get a fast pass and then head back to the family who are enjoying themselves.

I know this will sound like Im being an towards you, but I promise Im not.

So many people have said that with FP+ they dont have to "rush" to get FP's while their families enjoy themselves. They make it seem as if when they "rushed" to Toy Story that their family were all holding hands, singing Kubmaya while Mickey and Minnie popped up to have a picnic while it rained gum drops with double rainbows in the sky. While in reality it was more like little Johnny had to go to the bathroom and little Sarah was whining about how she wanted to go see Anna and Elsa again, not ride Toy Story, and the sun was beating down on them so they ducked into a shop to cool off and now both kids are begging to buy plush dolls and when told no, they throw a fit. Good times! (ya, I exaggerated both sides a little)

I always volunteered to be the FP runner. I loved it. The family would go grab ice cream and take a break while my Dad and I would grab a beer and go get the FP's. It was a nice break from the group and we never rushed. Sometimes the family would go ride a short lined attraction and we would all meet up in 30 minutes tht way my Dad and/or brother and I could relax and sit down with our beer and enjoy some time reminiscing about past trips.