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FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania
- Thread starter Sparky359621
- Start date
Ok, I'll admit I didn't take the time to read through all 25 pages here, so I do apologize if I'm asking something that's already been answered, but....
I'm going to Hollywood Studios tomorrow and Monday - I'm an annual passholder so I tend to make last minute decisions to visit the parks. Tried to make FP+ reservations and many rides, including Toy Story Mania, have none available for the next several days. That being said, if there still is no standby line, does this mean I cannot ride at all? Just trying to clarify the bits that I did read here. Thanks.
I'm going to Hollywood Studios tomorrow and Monday - I'm an annual passholder so I tend to make last minute decisions to visit the parks. Tried to make FP+ reservations and many rides, including Toy Story Mania, have none available for the next several days. That being said, if there still is no standby line, does this mean I cannot ride at all? Just trying to clarify the bits that I did read here. Thanks.
TheRabbit
Well-Known Member
The test was only until Thursday. So the standby line will be (should be) back open.
draybook
Well-Known Member
So, you're going to call others "babies" and then take the position of mature adult? There's a huge difference between the overlay, which is widely known AND advertised and the last second testing of a main attraction at a half day park.
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Haven't read all 25 pages of comments, so if this has already been opined, please excuse my bringing it up again.
We're going to be at the world in about 2 weeks (yay!), but if TDO had pulled a stunt like this when I was there I'd be ed. TSM, GMR and Animation Studio is about all we do in DHS (we're not coaster people), so to come all the way from California and to be surprised with no walk-on at TSM would be a pretty large pill to swallow. If TDO is so intent on doing testing like that, then they should do it with ample notice like when they do a planned refurb.
We're going to be at the world in about 2 weeks (yay!), but if TDO had pulled a stunt like this when I was there I'd be ed. TSM, GMR and Animation Studio is about all we do in DHS (we're not coaster people), so to come all the way from California and to be surprised with no walk-on at TSM would be a pretty large pill to swallow. If TDO is so intent on doing testing like that, then they should do it with ample notice like when they do a planned refurb.
TomP
Well-Known Member
I don't know if this was posted earlier but I seem to remember some discussion about "paid fast pass" several pages ago and this article explores the possibility that Disney could consider that.
http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...stpass-bets-people-will-pay-to-not-stand.aspx
http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...stpass-bets-people-will-pay-to-not-stand.aspx
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Hmm' I seem to recall someone saying I was making stuff up... It's just a matter of when not IF with today's TDO.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. The article essentially is a rehash of speculation done on these threads years ago when FastPass+ first was announced.
For now, Disney's strategy is to encourage preplanning. The idea being that once guests have planned days at WDW before they arrive, they are less likely to spontaneously spend days outside of WDW after they arrive.
There is merit to Disney's approach. People tend to stick to appointments. If I have a TSM FP+ selection on Tuesday, a Soarin' FP+ selection on Wednesday, and a SDMT FP+ selection for Thursday, which one of these am I going to skip?
The problem with any "pay-to-play" system is that its direct financial gains could be offset by indirect financial losses elsewhere.
In WDW's case, a pay-to-play system could lead to a decline in hotel occupancy, largely cancelling out its financial benefit. Why pay Disney's exorbitant prices to stay onsite for Extra Magic Hours and the 60-day FP+ booking advantage when it's cheaper to stay offsite and buy "FastPass Express" (or whatever they might call it) so the family can enjoy shorter lines during normal park hours?
Any system Disney implements must not jeopardize WDW's lucrative hotel business. Remember, WDW has 27,000 onsite rooms with rack rates considerably higher than comparable offsite rooms. (For comparison, Universal has 4200 rooms and only 2400 of these receive 'free' Express Pass.)
People sometimes forget that there is a ton of cash being made at WDW's hotels, over $2 billion annually.
This is not to say that Disney hasn't considered pay-to-play systems, only that the pros and cons of such systems are being weighed carefully.
As Iger and Rasulo repeatedly have emphasized to Wall Street, the primary goal of MyMagic+ is happier guests, the idea being that happier guests spend more.
We will see.
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TomP
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you except that Disney could offer "pay to play" ONLY to resort guests. As I was thinking about this, I could see Disney offering "Magic OUR Way" that would for each day: include room, park admission and say 7 fast passes along with maybe preferred seating CS lunch and a guaranteed ADR...all for only, let's say, $200 over the cost of hotel/park package. They could include a daily itinerary...complete with maps! that controlled your visit from experience to experience including stops at merch locations and a few bathroom breaks. That may seem a bit over the top, but I agree that Disney wants visitors ON PROPERTY, all the time.
Billq
Member
Are the Disney Execs that dream this stuff up under the influence of drugs and alcohol ? This crazy idea first off will never work, the magnitude of the number of guests that are in the parks everyday make this foolish. Guests pay almost $ 100 to get into the parks, and your going to tell them if you want to actually ride something you have to pay more ? and if you can do this up to 6 months in advance - what will happen is that you paid $ 100 to get into the park but the only thing you can ride is a toilet because everything is booked for the day ! What Disney should be looking at is ride modification, how can we add capacity, that will shorten the lines.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Hey, they built themed toilets in Fantasyland and Harambe, what more could you ask for?
Billq
Member
Hopefully the line isn't too long for that, and that there isn't pooh stains on the seat
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
"all for only"? When does Disney ever charge "only"?
Let's examine the price you suggest. $200/day per family of four is unrealistic. A 7-day MYW ticket with hopper & water park option costs $436.65, which works to $62.38/day. For a family of four, that's about $250/day.
Universal charges $50/day for its limited Express Pass on slow days, as high as $110/day for Christmas week. This goes as high as $150/day per person for their gold-plated "Both Parks" unlimited Express Pass for Christmas week.
All things considered, a market appropriate price for the "7 fast passes along with maybe preferred seating CS lunch and a guaranteed ADR" option you mention might be around $100/day per person above and beyond the price of admission. That means Disney will charge at least $120/day for it.
There are at least two potential concerns with charging for FastPass+.
First, Disney already charges double or ever triple the rate of comparable offsite rooms. With a "pay-to-play" system limited to only onsite guests, Disney would be telling these folks, in effect, "If you don't want to be treated like second class citizens, pony up another $400 per day for your family of four."
Why bother to stay onsite just to have to spend yet another $400 per day? Why bother to go to WDW at all? (Hello Universal!
)Universal offer's 'free' Express Pass in the price of its Deluxe Resort hotels, which often are under $300/night.
A hotel like the Grand Floridian or the Poly already starts at over $600/night in the summer. Tacking another $400/night on top of that brings a comparable WDW room to over $1000/night.
Second, perhaps even worse, Disney doesn't have the same ride-to-hotel-room capacity as Universal.
For the most part, Universal consists of headliner attractions with large rider capacities, while Universal offers 'free' Express Pass to only 2400 rooms. WDW has 27,000 rooms running at about 80% occupancy. At most of its theme parks, WDW simply doesn't have the ride capacity to support the number of families who might purchase this "FastPass Express" system.
Some would be willing to pay the extra $400/day. However, it also would drive others away. Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS) at WDW is about $260/night. For every family driven away from staying onsite, Disney would have to find another willing to pay the extra $300/day (assuming an average occupancy of 3 per room) to offset that lost revenue. This becomes difficult because, once a family is driven offsite, Disney has lost all 7 nights (assuming a week vacation) of their hotel stays, even if they visit WDW for a few days.
Conversely, even if a family decides to pay that extra $300/day, they are unlikely to pay it every day of their stay. Quite the opposite. Knowing they can do each WDW theme park faster because of the $300/day they paid, they are less likely to stay at a WDW hotel for 7 nights and less likely to visit WDW theme parks for 7 days.
Universal has the same problem today. I'm not sure if you've ever stayed onsite vs. offsite at Universal, but you can easily blow through each Universal theme park in a day with Express Pass, even in the summer. This is much more difficult to do in the summer when staying offsite. Universal's 'free' Express Pass perk effectively encourages shorter stays, which is why Universal's hotels offer steep discounts for longer stays.
My larger point being, for every dollar Disney gets from charging for "FastPass Express", there's likely to be offsetting dollars lost someplace else.
Disney is going to keep FastPass+ 'free' not because they are altruistic, but because it's in their financial best interest.
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Yup, that's the day I stop buying park tickets and use my DVC to stay onsite and do other non-Park things.
Ironically, FP+ has made my stays more complicated not easier. I don't have time to browse a shop or make an ADR. I'm too busy rushing from one FP+ window to another.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Funny thing is... I found it to be exactly the opposite of that. I didn't have to rush from one to another. I could casually move from place to place and plan my day around the total number and times of my Fastpasses. I guess we all see things differently. Rushing came about when I had to keep running to FP Kiosks and try to get my next FP.
Billq
Member
I am still a believer that to shorten lines Disney needs to modify the rides. I don't know what the average ride capacity per hour is for each ride but I will use a conservative 1000 guests per hour. Now add a small section of track/ water whatever the ride uses and add another line with adding cars/boats, if you have 3 lines, standby, fastpass , and pay to ride and you have added additional areas to board ride vehicles with added vehicles you could boost per hour capacity to maybe 3000 per hour thereby shortening lines, of course paying their cast members more than $ 8.00 an hour might get them to load/unload guests faster.
TomP
Well-Known Member
"all for only"? When does Disney ever charge "only"?
Let's examine the price you suggest. $200/day per family of four is unrealistic. A 7-day MYW ticket with hopper & water park option costs $436.65, which works to $62.38/day. For a family of four, that's about $250/day.
Universal charges $50/day for its limited Express Pass on slow days, as high as $110/day for Christmas week. This goes as high as $150/day per person for their gold-plated "Both Parks" unlimited Express Pass for Christmas week.
All things considered, a market appropriate price for the "7 fast passes along with maybe preferred seating CS lunch and a guaranteed ADR" option you mention might be around $100/day per person. That means Disney will charge at least $120/day for it.
There are at least two potential concerns with charging for FastPass+.
First, Disney already charges double or ever triple the rate of comparable offsite rooms. With a "pay-to-play" system, Disney would be telling these folks, in effect, "If you don't want to be treated like second class citizens, pony up another $400 per day for your family of four."
Why bother to stay onsite just to have to spend yet another $400 per day? Why bother to go to WDW at all. (Hello Universal!
Universal offer's 'free' Express Pass in the price of its Deluxe Resort hotels, which often are under $300/night.
A hotel like the Grand Floridian or the Poly already starts at over $600/night in the summer. Tacking another $400/night on top of that brings a comparable WDW room to over $1000/night.
Second, perhaps even worse, Disney doesn't have the same ride-to-hotel-room capacity as Universal.
For the most part, Universal consists of headliner attractions with large rider capacities, while Universal offers 'free' Express Pass to only 2400 rooms. WDW has 27,000 rooms running at about 80% occupancy. At most of its theme parks, WDW simply doesn't have the ride capacity to support the number of families who might purchase this "FastPass Express" system.
Some would be willing to pay the extra $400/day. However, it also would drive others away. Per Room Guests Spending (PRGS) at WDW is about $260/night. For every family driven away from staying onsite, Disney would have to find an other willing to pay the extra $300/day (assuming an average occupancy if 3 per room) to offset that lost revenue. This becomes difficult because, once a family is driven offsite, Disney has lost all 7 nights (assuming a week vacation) of their hotel stays, even if they visit WDW for a few days.
Conversely, even if a family decides to pay the extra $400/day, they are unlikely to pay it every day of their stay. Quite the opposite. Knowing they can do each WDW theme park faster because of the $400/day they paid, they are less likely to stay at a WDW hotel for7 nights and less likely to visit WDW theme parks for 7 days.
Universal has the same problem today. I'm not sure if you've ever stayed onsite vs. offsite at Universal, but you can easily blow through each Universal theme park in a day with Express Pass, even in the summer. This is much more difficult to do in the summer when staying offsite. Universal's 'free' Express Pass perk effectively encourages short stay, which is why Universal's hotels offer steep discounts for longer stays.
My larger point being, for every dollar Disney gets from "FastPass Express", there's likely to be offsetting dollars Disney loses someplace else.
Disney is going to keep FastPass+ 'free' not because they are altruistic, but because it's in their financial best interest.
I guess I'm not very good at sarcasm, which is was the intent of most of my post re: "Magic OUR Way". Can you tell I'm feeling a little unMAGICAL about WDW right now? Anyhoo...I can't help but think that Disney is looking for ways to get cash without adding much to their expense for the experience, hence my (completely arbitrary fee of) $200 per day PER Guest (which I left out previously) scenario. I really think there are plenty of people that would pay it...we may disagree on that. I mean, people that stay off site will book "throw away" rooms on property just to get 60 day FP scheduling privileges and magic bands.
I DO think that Disney will explore selling FP+, perhaps including the three with admission as they now do (I know you can get more, but really...not easy), but charging for anything over that.
BTW, I really enjoy reading your financial/economic analyses.
TomP
Well-Known Member
I LOVE Pooh...and Tigger too! oh...you mean..........yuk.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but this article is a load of crap.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Disney is going to keep FastPass+ 'free' not because they are altruistic, but because it's in their financial best interest.
When WDW unrolled this FP+ nonsense, I felt like it was a pre-cursor to charging for FP. But not in the Express Pass way, but in the "pay for access to our new stuff" way. All these "premium upcharges" isn't swaying me. Neither, is the frustration people are experiencing trying to book Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at midnight, 60 days out and being shut out because people with longer vacations have already sold out the ride. I just imagine something like, "For $99 per person, join us for a special dessert buffet in Pandora, immediate access to the land (I assume Disney is hoping for waits like existed for Hogsmeade) and a 'doesn't count against your 3', guaranteed FP+ to our new E-ticket ride." It's not exactly charging for FP, but that will be the reason people pony up the cash.