FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[AEfx]

I'm not sure what park hopping has to do with what I said. I was referring to the overall statement that they were upset because Disney didn't inform them ahead of time that they were going to run that test. As if to say, if I had known that I wouldn't have gone at that time. My response was to the thought of are they only going to see Toy Story? Why would the assumed inability to get to one attraction alter plans that far and away exceed one attraction? What is the difference between that and having a popular attraction down because of a breakdown (not planned rehab)? What is so terrible about that and why would it not be just as bad for most people that have made reservations months ago if they had announced it in advance? Even if it were next week it is still going to affect someone.

Because for a certain demographic, TSMM is the only "ride" in the park apart from GMR. TSMM has had ridiculous wait times not because it's some amazing attraction (I have long maintained that one can emulate the ride rather accurately with a rolling office chair and the Wii version), but because it's one of the only rides in the park that kids under height requirements or that don't like "thrill" rides/coasters can enjoy.

 

[AEfx]

The biggest complaint I am seeing, despite some of the nonsense conspiracies about all rides going FP this is proof, is that Disney botched this by not telling guests. Again, a ride goes down for some unforeseen reason, it stinks, but eh, what can you do? Management didn't plan for the down time.

First, "conspiracy" is such a loaded (an inaccurate) word to use in this case (since it's Disney's decision and there is no "conspire" to become a "conspiracy").

Second, if a year ago anyone seriously suggested that any ride PERIOD would ever go FP+ only, even as a test - we would have laughed at it. It would have been said as a jest.

Things break down. It stinks, as you said - but what can you do. That's far different from paying for theme park admission, entering, and being told that unless you scheduled your ride months before, or you happened to get there in the first few hours to get a magic ticket, you cannot ride an attraction because Disney has intentionally chosen to do this.

As I said when we began this descent into absurdity with the BOG issue, scheduling fast food months in advance, I figured it would creep into rides at some point - I had no idea how soon. You don't "test" something you don't intend on implementing, particularly in a live environment.

If Disney gave advanced warning, then this person could have gone into his MDE account, switched DHS for Epcot days, and probably been unaffected. Could have had time to cancel his booked ADR in DHS for dinner. Could have done exactly what this system is supposed to be used for. Unless, of course, Disney forgot what this system is supposed to be used for. Or maybe guest convenience wasn't what MDE was made for at all.

*IF* one had FP+.

Does anyone have any numbers/guesstimates/CM leaks as to how many folks have assimilated into militaristic trip planning for their their fun, carefree Disney vacation vs. the guests in WDW's new steerage admission level?

 

[natatomic]

I have never done one of those test, but, common sense tells me that in order to see how a reservation system works they have to issue more fastpasses for that attraction. In fact, they have to issue, at least, the number that is the days capacity in order to see if it works. What it simply means is that Fastpasses will be available for those that otherwise would have been in stand-by. It is no more discriminatory then the stand-by line itself. When they reach the end of the day only those that are within the ride capacity will ride with or without a FP.

On the surface, yes, that is how it would appear. But - and this has been said on pretty much every thread regarding FP-only lines - decreasing the wait time increases demand. TSMM is consistently above a 60 minute wait most days of the year, and for some people, that is "too long." But that is their opinion based on the wants and needs of their particular vacation. To some people, the ride is worth that 60+ minute wait, and they are willing to wait that amount of time. Whether it be because Toy Story is their favorite movie, they love the interactive aspect, or it's the only damn ride in the park their little one can ride - they want to ride it, maybe even a couple of times, wait time be damned! In a nutshell, the line is self-regulating. People will only enter the line if they think the value of their experience will exceed the wait time.

But wait, what's this?! Now no one will EVER be forced to wait more than 10 minutes (or whatever the amount) for this? Well, now everyone who had only mild to little interest in this ride thinks, "What the heck, I can get on without waiting, why NOT do it?" More people are willing because it costs less of their time (i.e. money). So now barely-interested Joe Schmoe could very well take the spot of the family who loves TSMM above all else. Yes, yes...if they loved it so much, they should have gotten a FP+, blah blah blah, but some of us are CMs who cannot book ANY FP+s in advance, and so I would love for someone to tell my children that they cannot ride their favorite ride in the entire world even if they're willing to wait two hours (mainly because it's the only way sometimes with FPs being gone so early) because someone else with deeper pockets whined that waiting in line was just too darn hard and inconvenient is now being given their near-immediate access at the expense of people who are willing to wait (earn, if you will) for their spot on the attraction. And it doesn't have to be CMs or locals who will be negatively affected by this, I just use that as an example.

Basically, the less effort (waiting) involved to ride an attraction, the greater the appeal, the higher the demand, and the more likely even the most devout fan (or even you!) will be blocked out.

 

[rct247]

I have another concern after visiting Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party this evening. Tonight's party (10/09) was sold out. A sold out party is still only about half of what an average attendance day is for Magic Kingdom. The problem with my visit tonight was how crowded it was, yet attractions had little to no wait. Everyone was taking in the entertainment offerings, meet and greets, merchandise, and of course the trick or treating. I started realizing though that if Magic Kingdom can handle on average 40,000 guests pretty well before it starts feeling "busy", why did 20,000 feel just as busy? They were all on the streets.

If this FP+ test proves to be a success, the parks are going to find themselves in a similar situation. Guests won't be waiting in the lines as much and will be out on the streets. If 30,000 feels busy suddenly, what does a 50,000 or 60,000+ holiday feel like?!

FP+ only attractions means more guests spending money in shops and restaurants, but that also means they are out on the streets. Would the parks have the capacity needed for that? Food for thought.

 

[Kevo]

.... and oh, how much did the grown ups at Universal Boulevard, laugh and laugh until their heads 'flew off' as the children played silly games down the lane......

 

[ford91exploder]

Chaos...I am consuming an adult beverage here and do not want to mess up my laptop...

Buy a Toughbook CF-31 they are rated for use in rainfall rates up to 6" per hour and are tiger resistant to boot

Full Disclosure - these are the laptops I use daily. They also have GPS and 4G built in so you will never be lost without internet

 

[Goofyernmost]

I hope you are kidding. It is only 4/365 in a calendar year, but what if those are the 4 days I went and I am not coming back for another 3 or 4 years and I only planned one day at DHS. I would feel better if the ride went down then to try to explain to my kids why they cannot ride cause I did not know about this new program and I spent months pre planning and getting the family all excited about it. Oh well, I guess I can compensate cause I just went to BOG restaurant to heal my wounds and guess what, I found out I am not allowed to eat there. So for you maybe no big deal and maybe you are able to go often, but I just spent years saving and traveled a long distance to get frustrated, cause I spent all the time planning and getting excited and then be let down.

What if it is for heavens sake. The world is going to still spin on its axis. I went to California and couldn't wait to see the original Haunted Mansion. know what I got when I got there? The damn cardboard Skellington overlay. I was never planning on going back to DL again.

Yes, it is common knowledge that they did that every year and that I should have known, but, I didn't and I lived through it. Besides even if I had known that was the only window of opportunity that I had. It was then or never. It turned out to be never! Crap happens! By the looks of the timing which was just after all the big wheels were there to "inspect", I'd say that it wasn't a long planned decision. I think that someone with more power then the rest of us can imagine, said "do this", and we need the information right away. I'm sure you are probably one of the people that always complains that it takes to long for Disney to do anything, well here is the opposite.

I am going to stop responding to this silliness. You all sound like a bunch of babies that got their rattle taken away. I suspect that by now it's all over with anyway. Blame Disney, blame yourselves for planning to go in what turned out to be a bad time, blame ISIS if you want. It doesn't matter now as it didn't matter then.

 

[TheRabbit]

I have another concern after visiting Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party this evening. Tonight's party (10/09) was sold out. A sold out party is still only about half of what an average attendance day is for Magic Kingdom. The problem with my visit tonight was how crowded it was, yet attractions had little to no wait. Everyone was taking in the entertainment offerings, meet and greets, merchandise, and of course the trick or treating. I started realizing though that if Magic Kingdom can handle on average 40,000 guests pretty well before it starts feeling "busy", why did 20,000 feel just as busy? They were all on the streets.

If this FP+ test proves to be a success, the parks are going to find themselves in a similar situation. Guests won't be waiting in the lines as much and will be out on the streets. If 30,000 feels busy suddenly, what does a 50,000 or 60,000+ holiday feel like?!

FP+ only attractions means more guests spending money in shops and restaurants, but that also means they are out on the streets. Would the parks have the capacity needed for that? Food for thought.

Another possible reason they are re-designing the MK hub to give them more foot space and exit routes. Could be Disney's long term plan is all coming together slowly.

 

[ford91exploder]

First, "conspiracy" is such a loaded (an inaccurate) word to use in this case (since it's Disney's decision and there is no "conspire" to become a "conspiracy").

Second, if a year ago anyone seriously suggested that any ride PERIOD would ever go FP+ only, even as a test - we would have laughed at it. It would have been said as a jest.

Things break down. It stinks, as you said - but what can you do. That's far different from paying for theme park admission, entering, and being told that unless you scheduled your ride months before, or you happened to get there in the first few hours to get a magic ticket, you cannot ride an attraction because Disney has intentionally chosen to do this.

As I said when we began this descent into absurdity with the BOG issue, scheduling fast food months in advance, I figured it would creep into rides at some point - I had no idea how soon. You don't "test" something you don't intend on implementing, particularly in a live environment.



*IF* one had FP+.

Does anyone have any numbers/guesstimates/CM leaks as to how many folks have assimilated into militaristic trip planning for their their fun, carefree Disney vacation vs. the guests in WDW's new steerage admission level?

I think for the true long term Disney fan to quote WOPR from War Games "The only way to win the game is not to play" as in do not give WDW your money. The point in time is rapidly approaching where I would prefer to remember WDW as it WAS rather than memories of the pale shadow of itself as it is TODAY.

 

[BrianV]

I think for the true long term Disney fan to quote WOPR from War Games "The only way to win the game is not to play" as in do not give WDW your money. The point in time is rapidly approaching where I would prefer to remember WDW as it WAS rather than memories of the pale shadow of itself as it is TODAY.

I quote the WOPR all the time. This context is as good as any. Totally agree, if you or anyone is unhappy and stop going and enough people follow they will be forced to either lower prices or increase quality--both designed to get people to return. The problem is only getting enough people to follow. Even if every member of WDW magic stopped going to WDW cold turkey, not sure it would make a substantial dent such that they would be forced to respond.

I agree however, that disney was not as good as it once was. I long for the days of only three hotels. 1 theme park. Discovery island. 1 water park (which in full disclosure I never once attended despite many many disney trips). I miss the real crystal palace. I miss the top of the world. I miss the amazing arcade at the contemporary. I miss king Stephan's banquet hall. I miss the tv station always playing the the ad with the catchy Walt disney world song. I miss the slamming of the monorail doors.

But, as a former coach of the Boston celtics said once "Larry Bird and Kevin Mchale aren't walking through that door!" We've got to live with the massively expanded wdw, both the good and the bad.

 

[CDavid]

Blame Disney, blame yourselves for planning to go in what turned out to be a bad time, blame ISIS if you want. It doesn't matter now as it didn't matter then.

It may not matter to you, but that doesn't mean that it isn't important to the rest of us, and in particular, it probably matters to those guests who were directly affected. This little "test" was very poorly communicated; You cannot blame anyone but Disney for that.

I'm sure you are probably one of the people that always complains that it takes to long for Disney to do anything, well here is the opposite.

Blaming the customer doesn't work either. When guests are delivered a substandard or mediocre experience at premium prices, their complaints are completely justified and, indeed, people need to speak up.

What if it is for heavens sake. The world is going to still spin on its axis

The world would continue to spin on its axis no matter what we do. If that is the standard you apply to determine if something is important or not, then absolutely nothing matters in life, including faith and family matters which are far, far more important than a theme park. More specifically, most of us are WDWMagic members because Disney - in some way - still matters to us.

 

[ford91exploder]

I quote the WOPR all the time. This context is as good as any. Totally agree, if you or anyone is unhappy and stop going and enough people follow they will be forced to either lower prices or increase quality--both designed to get people to return. The problem is only getting enough people to follow. Even if every member of WDW magic stopped going to WDW cold turkey, not sure it would make a substantial dent such that they would be forced to respond.

I agree however, that disney was not as good as it once was. I long for the days of only three hotels. 1 theme park. Discovery island. 1 water park (which in full disclosure I never once attended despite many many disney trips). I miss the real crystal palace. I miss the top of the world. I miss the amazing arcade at the contemporary. I miss king Stephan's banquet hall. I miss the tv station always playing the the ad with the catchy Walt disney world song. I miss the slamming of the monorail doors.

But, as a former coach of the Boston celtics said once "Larry Bird and Kevin Mchale aren't walking through that door!" We've got to live with the massively expanded wdw, both the good and the bad.

Ah, Rick Pitino's EPIC rant



Being from the Boston area I think that's a very apt comparison, But from a different perspective Red Auerbach only hired the BEST players and worked very hard to have a championship quality team.

The Pitino era was how do we do a basketball team on the cheap while milking the fans for nostalgia, Very much like today's WDW under Iger.

Now we need a Doc Rivers and good ownership to lead WDW back from the abyss, It will never be the same as the old days but fresh quality attractions, attention to the experience and devotion to quality will go a long way, none of us expects WDW to be a museum but we do expect it to uphold certain standards from any objective view they are not meeting today.

 

[AEfx]

I think for the true long term Disney fan to quote WOPR from War Games "The only way to win the game is not to play" as in do not give WDW your money. The point in time is rapidly approaching where I would prefer to remember WDW as it WAS rather than memories of the pale shadow of itself as it is TODAY.

Yup, that's why I only really go to DLR these days. It used to be more expensive, but with WDW costs so out of control, it's a lot easier, plus there are a zillion other things to do in So Cal and with friends there, it's a much more fulfilling way to spend a week now. It's even worth flying - which I don't enjoy at all anyomre, not like I used to.

I'd love for that to change, though, but the way things are going...

 

[RayTheFirefly]

Another article about this test. This one seems to be trying to shed a little more of a positive light on it than the other article from Time.

Read here.

 

[natatomic]

Another article about this test. This one seems to be trying to shed a little more of a positive light on it than the other article from Time.

Read here.

Glad to see average guests, not just the diehard fans here on wdwmagic, hate it too, judging by the comments.

 

[mergatroid]

We visited the Studios on Wednesday this week on our way to the airport to fly home and noticed signs up about TSMM to the right of the hat where you'd turn to go there. They also had about four cm's at the sign telling those approaching them it was FP+ only for testing. To be honest this year was the first time ever we rode it even though we come every year as in the past the standby line has always been too long or the old paper FP's return time unsuitable. We had FP+'s however for a fortnight ago and thought it was fun but not that much better than Buzz in the MK. I certainly expected a bit more judging by the crazy waits for it we've constantly witnessed for it in the past.

 

[AmiB]

I don't understand how there is a winning time to do something like this. Either you or somebody else will be involved no matter when they do it. I would certainly hope that no one spends that much money and it all hinges on a single attraction. Seriously, much ado about nothing. Repeat after me... It's a theme park! It has hundreds of other things to see. The world will not come to an end because it is a little more difficult to get into nothing more then a large sized video game. Life will go on.

That sounds nice and all, but...I played by the new rules I didn't know about before hand. I had the Magic Fast Pass+, and I still didn't get to ride. We rearranged our dinner plans to ride the ride we missed (and would have ridden first thing in the morning but for the new rules) and go see Fantasmic. We didn't get to do either, and we didn't get our dinner either. I felt herded and cheated. I also felt like I didn't matter to Disney. I know my family will be replaced by 10 Brazilian families, but I am going to tell 100 families about my experience. Things trickle down.

We vacationed 10 days in 2008. We had an annual pass in 2011 (over 30 days in the park spending money). We had an annual pass in 2012 (over 30 days in the park spending money). We purchased a new annual pass this week before visiting the parks. I have been very disappointed in the changes, and I notice a marked difference in the happiness of employees and guest. It's like they closed Smile School.

I'm not demanding. I don't go to guest services over every little thing. It takes a lot to upset me. Mostly I go with the flow. The issues at the parks are over the top, and if something doesn't change, they are going to start feeling it.

 

[BrianV]

That sounds nice and all, but...I played by the new rules I didn't know about before hand. I had the Magic Fast Pass+, and I still didn't get to ride. We rearranged our dinner plans to ride the ride we missed (and would have ridden first thing in the morning but for the new rules) and go see Fantasmic. We didn't get to do either, and we didn't get our dinner either. I felt herded and cheated. I also felt like I didn't matter to Disney. I know my family will be replaced by 10 Brazilian families, but I am going to tell 100 families about my experience. Things trickle down.

We vacationed 10 days in 2008. We had an annual pass in 2011 (over 30 days in the park spending money). We had an annual pass in 2012 (over 30 days in the park spending money). We purchased a new annual pass this week before visiting the parks. I have been very disappointed in the changes, and I notice a marked difference in the happiness of employees and guest. It's like they closed Smile School.

I'm not demanding. I don't go to guest services over every little thing. It takes a lot to upset me. Mostly I go with the flow. The issues at the parks are over the top, and if something doesn't change, they are going to start feeling it.

Your story sounds incredibly frustrating. I would have gone to guest services. They would have tried to make it better in some way. Or at least given you something to help.

Sounded like the ride was down for an hour which may or may not have been of their control and caused the backup. My guess is not of their control. We had the same thing happen at Harry potter world. We rush in to avoid the crowds only to find out that the ride was down. Frustrating because we were staying on site to get early access. We'd done everything right. When we came back later, the wait was 2 hours and the ride was back up. (This was several years ago). We went to universal studios guest services and they gave us a special express pass for Harry potter to use later...despite the fact that it doesn't accept express passes.

My point is not that universal behaves differently. Rather that guest services anywhere usually tries their best. They can't always solve the problem, but can make it a little better.

 

[ford91exploder]

Another article about this test. This one seems to be trying to shed a little more of a positive light on it than the other article from Time.

Read here.

Geez, How much did TDO pay for that puff piece, Guess they did not pay for the comment redaction service though - those comments are brutal they are even harsher then the 'Doom-n-Gloom' brigade here!!!

 

[BrerJon]

Geez, How much did TDO pay for that puff piece, Guess they did not pay for the comment redaction service though - those comments are brutal they are even harsher then the 'Doom-n-Gloom' brigade here!!!

I think they already spent all this year's comment redaction budget on Tom Staggs' Maelstrom postings to the Disney Parks Blog.