jakeman
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry I can't hear you over all the panic...
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania
- Thread starter Sparky359621
- Start date
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Your numbers are a little off here, but its because of Fastpass/FP+. If a high demand attraction like, say, Expedition Everest has an hourly capacity of 2,000 people per hour (which it does!), and the wait time is an hour, there aren't ~2,000 people in the standby queue. The standard merging ratio of Fastpass to Standby is 4:1, or 80% Fastpass and 20% standby. For a high demand attraction during a high demand hour, the flow of Fastpass users will be constant. In reality, in this situation, there are actually only about 400-500 people in the standby queue.
Queues like Everest's literally can't even physically hold 2,000 people because it was designed to operate with Fastpass in mind.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Not liking it and aggressively disseminating misinformation are two separate things.
You were doing the former, others the latter.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Not liking it and aggressively disseminating misinformation are two separate things.
You were doing the former, others the latter.
Yeah..... i havent dug into this much. I just dont like being forced to plan everything out.
I've used the Unlimited Express Pass. It's great, and I hate its existence. If Disney offered anything like it, we'd be all over them: "Cash Grab! WDW shouldn't treat rich people different! Everybody should have the same access to attractions! Iger only cares about short-term profits! This is just another way to pay for the failed MM+!" But somehow, it's OK for Uni.
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
I just don't think they'll be able to get away with it.
Even if you count this as the second time trying on an ride (and 4th overall with A/E and BOG the others), they are literally batting .000 with guests so far on this. I just can't see how they'll be able to justify doing this when the masses have clearly shown they don't want it.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
But this is Rasulo's* baby!
(*or some other high level Disney executive and I'm not googling this shineola)
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
I know you're joking, but really, I know that Disney's goal here is to get as many people out of queues and onto the streets, where they could be spending money.
HOWEVER, If you the people off by forcing them to use a system that half of them don't even know how or really want to use, are they going to want to spend any money at your park? I can't answer that question flat out, but even if they do still spend money, the key thing is, will they come back?
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I thoroughly believe that the financial gurus at the top of P&R believe that "the guests will always come."
Of course this was proved wrong in January 2002.
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
The thing is, people have always gone home from their Disney vacations and talked about what a great magical time they had, so it enticed others to go and that family maybe went again too.
Now, I feel like the top thing people talke about when they go home from a Disney trip is likely MagicBands. Some people may love them, others may hate them. For those that hate them though, they certainly aren't helping convince anyone else to go to WDW anytime soon.
Thank you for noting the original idea and purpose behind fastpass. Guest spending. Also how often can someone browse a gift shop and chance buying a piece of merch or food/drink if they have to rush off to make their next ride reservation? Bad idea.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Not really. Skimming off the half of the people who spend less on food and merchandise is not going to make the remaining half spend twice as much. The remaining half are not going to buy double the food and double the merchandise.
WDW's entire infrastructure is designed to handle tens-of-thousands per day. It's better to have 10,000 more than 10,000 less.
Higher attendance (at the highest possible price) is preferable. Higher attendance results in better operational efficiency and better margins.
More people packed into the parks means higher sales and higher margins. When is WDW more profitable, Christmas Week or the fourth week of January?
If the goal is to drive away customers in order to improve Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGA), why upcharge for FP+? Why not simply charge $200/day for a ticket?
WDW is entertainment for the masses. In mass entertainment, there's always a sweet spot, a middle ground between balancing price per unit and number of units sold.
You can conduct surveys and analyze data to the umpteenth degree but, ultimately, you never know where it is until you try it.
In recent years, Disney has employed a strategy called "price leveraging". It means raising prices on what you already have, perhaps repackaging it a bit to hide the increase. In more common parlance, it's sometimes expressed as "whatever the market will bear". Essentially, it means raise prices until sales start to be adversely impacted.
This strategy depends on trying something and gauging the market's reaction to it. It's a feedback loop, often trial-and-error. It also sometimes means trial balloons. Try something and then say, "Oops, that's not what we meant" when it fails.
From 2010-2013, Disney implemented aggressive price increases at its theme parks. As a result, PCGS rose 25% in 3 years. That means you and I spent 25% more in 2013 than we did in 2010 for essentially the exact same theme park experience.
Ouch!
Disney's aggressive increases have had consequences. Normally after a recession, domestic Disney theme park attendance bounces back 5-to-10% per year. Instead, domestic attendance gains have averaged closer to 3%. For the first 9 months of this year, it's only up 2%. Disney's higher prices are hindering growth.
Equally disturbing is what has happened to the mix of sales at the theme parks.
In recent decades, Disney collected about 4% more on food, beverage, and merchandise than on ticket sales. In other words, for every $1 in ticket sales, they sold $1.04 elsewhere at the parks.
Disney's aggressive price increases have unbalanced this ratio. In 2013, food, beverage, and merchandise sales was only 89% of admission. Disney is selling only 89 cents in food & merchandise for every dollar sold in tickets. That's an all-time historic low for Disney.
Last year, domestic attendance was up 4% while prices were up more than that. Yet Disney managed only 6% growth in merchandise, food, and beverage revenue. People are adjusting to the higher prices by simply buying less.
These are indications that Disney's prices are reaching a tipping point.
It appears Disney has recognized the trend and has reacted to it. Tickets are up 4% in 2014. To offset the lost revenue of a larger increase, they simply hiked ticket prices earlier in 2014 than they did in 2013.
Within any business, there are those who think "higher prices" is the cure to all corporate woes.
However, there are signs that Disney has recognized that its strategy of "higher prices only" has run its course and now it's time to concentrate on other growth initiatives.
At WDW, it's time to start building at the theme parks. That's where growth lies.
Last edited:
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
It would help if they start to make their merch better. More stores like the new Haunted Mansion store would be a welcomed improvement over the stuff in the stores now... pretty much the same stuff everywhere.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Consumer Products has been a dumpster fire since the days of Paul Pressler.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
You are welcome.
And I have decided I do have more to add ... nothing that changes my post or opinion. Just about Disney and not charging for FP+. That is where we are and that is where Disney is staying for the near term future. Will it be like that in 2029? Good question.
If you had told me in 1999 that airlines in the USA were going to charge you extra for luggage, for meals, for snacks, for seat assignments (even a family trying to sit together), for booking tickets with a human being over the phone etc, then I would have said you were crazy and there's no way the flying public would ever let that fly.
Well, good thing I didn't take part in frequent flyer forums in the late 90s.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I do feel bad for people there. Theme park guests shouldn't pay premium prices to be treated like rats in a lab. Period.
Imagine if the test allowed only blonde haired, blue eyed Americans to ride. Hyperbole? Yes ... but arriving at a park with very few attractions for the entire family only to be told that you had to reserve the ride in advance or not ride, even if you were willing to wait however long, is the opposite of the Guest Service that Disney built its rep on. It is getting the white gloved treatment in the worst way possible.
You just don't use your guests as lab rats. Period.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I've used the Unlimited Express Pass. It's great, and I hate its existence. If Disney offered anything like it, we'd be all over them: "Cash Grab! WDW shouldn't treat rich people different! Everybody should have the same access to attractions! Iger only cares about short-term profits! This is just another way to pay for the failed MM+!" But somehow, it's OK for Uni.
Wow, it turns out I have a lot more to say ... thanks to posts like yours above!
UNI isn't Disney and Disney isn't UNI and that has always and will always be the case. (Don't you love such deep statements?)
Disney based its parks on many tenets handed down from Uncle Walt and all those who followed. One of the most basic was that every guest was treated equally ... like a VIP ... (note: you don't see this one quote on any painted construction walls now, do you?)
If you paid, then you were all treated the same. It was fair, it was simple, it was all American!
Universal wasn't founded on that at all. They don't have to be held to Disney's standards. The only standards they should be held to are their own and what their visitors believe is fair and just. I haven't seen much outrage over Express Pass amongst the UNI fan community. It only bothers me on Horror Nights, but that's another subject (heck, and a Disney like deal of an upcharge within an upcharge!)
I think Universal Express has very little import in a discussion about Disney's FP+.
This is what I like least about the whole thing. Maybe this is one drawback of the early days of magicbands and MDE where quite a few us were charged particles hurtling towards the gas ionization detector waiting for analysis (thought I'd try something besides lab rats). Now they feel like if they want every guest in the park to wear a Mickey Mouse backpack GPS system while all the rides are closed between the hours of 2 and 3:24 PM for some indecipherable reason, it is OK.