FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[Buried20KLeague]

You got any more of them FP+'s??????

 

[jakeman]

None.

BTW Time/Money has picked up this story.... http://time.com/money/3478186/disney-toy-story-ride-reservations-lines/

Oh okay...so @ford91exploder is just straight up fabricating things now. Good to know.

 

[jakeman]

None.

BTW Time/Money has picked up this story.... http://time.com/money/3478186/disney-toy-story-ride-reservations-lines/

Also (sorry for the double post), that article isn't really jiving with what folks are saying here, regarding this being a test in conjunction with the third track. Lots of "could be"'s and maybes in that article and not a lot of sources.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

With regard to Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS), Disney's plan appears to be to convert rooms to DVC.

With regard to Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS), I tend to agree that Disney pushed too quickly on price increases from 2010-2013. It looks like the growth rate of PCGS is slowing down this year.

WDW prices are reaching a tipping point. In recent years, increases have far outpaced people's abilities to pay them.

Getting guests to spend even more on what they already receive (e.g. charging for FP+) is only going to boomerang. It will drive sufficient numbers away to largely offset any gains from potential FP+ upsells.

No, what WDW needs to do is attract more business (by adding new experiences) and improve guest satisfaction (by increasing ride capacity on existing popular attractions).

Only by investing in WDW is Disney going to improve WDW's financials.

But... They could be completely FINE with FP upcharges driving away numbers to the point of offsetting direct gains. Lower crowd numbers mean less staffing, less park hours, less fireworks/night shows, less gas, less maintenance on rides, less monrail and bus wear and tear (not to mention less busses even required!!), more people in Disney Springs after park close, etc...

The staffing cuts and crowd manipulation alone would easily mean tens of millions of dollars a year. Easy.

I'm quite sure they'd be happy with having half as many people in the parks that were paying twice as much. Especially if that half as many people were high income/high spend (because they were the ones that could still afford the experience).

 

[Virtual Toad]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

Excellent point Mr. Twain. It seems TDO hasn't been able to decide which direction to go the last 5-6 years and their obsession with shell games is only making things worse. Here's what they've tried and could try:

Option #1: FP+ but build lengthy interactive queues for standby guests to get them out of walkways and give them something to do in the slower moving lines. Helps alleviate overcrowding by keeping folks in the queues. If you have to have FP+ this is not a bad way to go IMHO. Sadly it seems they've all but abandoned this concept.

Option #2: Reservations only for marquis attractions but give folks a place to wait. Personally, I *love* what they did with Dumbo. Give guests a "reservation" (even without a FP so folks can still use "standby"!) and let their kids run off steam while parents relax in the air conditioned indoor playground. This makes "waiting in line" way more pleasant and, to address the problem you've brought up, it gets people out of the common areas of the park (walkways) so it doesn't add to the overcrowding problem. Sadly guests did not respond favorably to this, so now we're at this point:

Option #3: FP+ only for marquis attractions without places for folks to wait. As you've said this could be a crowd control nightmare because the queues won't be full of park guests, the walkways will be. :-( This seems to be TDO's flavor of the month. Let's hope they think this through and get it out of their system quickly. Ticking off a significant percentage of guests is not a healthy long-term business strategy.

Option #4: BUILD. MORE. ATTRACTIONS. One additional blockbuster E-ticket and 5 more solid omnimover or efficiently loading C-ticket dark rides / theatre shows PER PARK. No flat/cycle rides. Think Mr. Toad or Alice in Wonderland-type rides or attractions like Cranium Command. Build several quality attractions that carry a moderate (15-25 minute) wait and spread out the crowds. More to do. More value for the money. More spontaneity. Less crowded walkways. Happier guests. Get back to what worked so well for the first 25 years at WDW and for the love of God get back to doing it better than anyone else. Treat guests like real people instead of data points and show you really care and believe in your own product. Maybe some genius at HQ will figure out this is what folks really want.

 

[draybook]

WDW would be an excellent place for 'Undercover Boss' to put Iger/Staggs/Rasulo as front line CM's for a week and see how the parks REALLY operate. Put em through an evac on SM, cleanup at Cosmic Ray's and crowd control at Wishes and FP duty at TSMM.

Crowd control before/after fireworks/parades is when I notice that the suits/managers scurry to find a rock to hide under like roaches when the lights come on.

 

[ford91exploder]

None.

BTW Time/Money has picked up this story.... http://time.com/money/3478186/disney-toy-story-ride-reservations-lines/

I can no longer find the press release I mentioned should have gotten a screen capture - my bad, Thanks for the link to story - Amazing 36 hours from board to mainstream media.

And this is not the FIRST rumor of FP's being chargeable in the forseeable future

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...avatarland-and-starwarsland-are-built.880592/

 

[Next Big Thing]

None.

BTW Time/Money has picked up this story.... http://time.com/money/3478186/disney-toy-story-ride-reservations-lines/

This is EXACTLY why Disney would never be able to get away with going FP+ only on attractions permanently. Not only did the Soarin' test fail miserably with guests and so far this one not much better, but when mainstream media starts giving bad press about it, you should maybe start to realize what you're doing isn't going to work.

 

[ford91exploder]

This is EXACTLY why Disney would never be able to get away with going FP+ only on attractions permanently. Not only did the Soarin' test fail miserably with guests and so far this one not much better, but when mainstream media starts giving bad press about it, you should maybe start to realize what you're doing isn't going to work.

It depends on whether TDO cares about public opinion, Remember there was a business meme going around a few years ago about 'firing your customers' ie get rid of your least profitable customers. TDO to borrow a phrase seems 'stuck on stupid'. Day guests especially single day guests TDO considers their least profitable segment.

Most customer service businesses would have given up after the first day of chaos, Watch TDO 'extend' this test beyond tomorrow.

I'll say this for TDO they have what our Brit friends call 'bloody mindedness'.

 

[Next Big Thing]

It depends on whether TDO cares about public opinion, Remember there was a business meme going around a few years ago about 'firing your customers' ie get rid of your least profitable customers. TDO to borrow a phrase seems 'stuck on stupid'. Day guests especially single day guests TDO considers their least profitable segment.

Most customer service businesses would have given up after the first day of chaos, Watch TDO 'extend' this test beyond tomorrow.

I'll say this for TDO they have what our Brit friends call 'bloody mindedness'.

They need to care about public opinion when it affects a park visit as drastically as this would...

 

[ford91exploder]

They need to care about public opinion when it affects a park visit as drastically as this would...

TDO cares for public opinion only when it affects the bottom line, If TDO had half as many customers paying say 30%-50% more than current customers but the gross margins increased from 16% to 28% they would be more than happy even if the NY Times had 'Disney Sucks' as the daily headline for a year.

As a result Iger would be the darling of Wall Street, Whilst Disney fans the world over cursed his name.

 

[WDW1974]

This wittle thread has exploded nicely ... all I can (or care) to add is that this isn't a test for any sort of charging for FP+ in the future. It is all about moving guests through a FP+ only type environment in advance of them adding capacity to this attraction, which will then be a test as to whether to add the third theater for Soarin.

I wouldn't be ignorant enough to say that Disney will never charge for FP+ or for extras after a certain point etc ... only that it isn't something that they are looking to do in the near future.

Now, upcharge events and upcharge events inside other upcharge events? That's another story!

 

[tissandtully]

This wittle thread has exploded nicely ... all I can (or care) to add is that this isn't a test for any sort of charging for FP+ in the future. It is all about moving guests through a FP+ only type environment in advance of them adding capacity to this attraction, which will then be a test as to whether to add the third theater for Soarin.

I wouldn't be ignorant enough to say that Disney will never charge for FP+ or for extras after a certain point etc ... only that it isn't something that they are looking to do in the near future.

Now, upcharge events and upcharge events inside other upcharge events? That's another story!

It's UPCHARGECEPTION! BRAAAAAHMMM.

 

[draybook]

After experiencing Express Pass, I would pay for something similar at WDW. That EP is like crack, bruh!

 

[jakeman]

I can no longer find the press release I mentioned should have gotten a screen capture - my bad, Thanks for the link to story - Amazing 36 hours from board to mainstream media.

So you made it up. Gotcha. Press releases just don't disappear. It's especially hard to believe a Disney press release about a major change such as this was only noticed by one person before it was pulled.

And this is not the FIRST rumor of FP's being chargeable in the forseeable future

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...avatarland-and-starwarsland-are-built.880592/

Hypothetically, what would happen if someone who had been on the boards for two days with less than 4 dozen post started to drop rumors that were positive? Would they be met with as wide open arms and acceptance as you have done?

You're at about an 8 with this whole D&G corporate hate crazy you got on your face. Maybe dial it back to a 4 or something? Go count some cars in the parking lot.

Here's a song to help you out:

 

[jakeman]

This wittle thread has exploded nicely ... all I can (or care) to add is that this isn't a test for any sort of charging for FP+ in the future. It is all about moving guests through a FP+ only type environment in advance of them adding capacity to this attraction, which will then be a test as to whether to add the third theater for Soarin.

I wouldn't be ignorant enough to say that Disney will never charge for FP+ or for extras after a certain point etc ... only that it isn't something that they are looking to do in the near future.

Now, upcharge events and upcharge events inside other upcharge events? That's another story!

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[tissandtully]

After experiencing Express Pass, I would pay for something similar at WDW. That EP is like crack, bruh!

The best deal is most definitely the Universal Premiere Pass which gives you Express Pass after 4.

 

[Next Big Thing]

TDO cares for public opinion only when it affects the bottom line, If TDO had half as many customers paying say 30%-50% more than current customers but the gross margins increased from 16% to 28% they would be more than happy even if the NY Times had 'Disney Sucks' as the daily headline for a year.

As a result Iger would be the darling of Wall Street, Whilst Disney fans the world over cursed his name.

If they went through with this on all attractions, it WOULD start affecting the bottom line, and not in a good way.

This is a pointless conversation anyway, this is simply a test. I'd be VERY surprised if they went ahead with this full time on any ride.

 

[jakeman]

If they went through with this on all attractions, it WOULD start affecting the bottom line, and not in a good way.

This is a pointless conversation anyway, this is simply a test. I'd be VERY surprised if they went ahead with this full time on any ride.

Also, let's not forget it's not even a test to move the entire attraction to FP only. It's a throughput test for the third track.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Also, let's not forget it's not even a test to move the entire attraction to FP only. It's a throughput test for the third track.

Exactly. The world is not ending.

Do I feel bad for those that are there right now? Sort of, but it is a slow period, so I feel like most who want to ride will be able to. The test is a small blip and is necessary for the TSMM ans Soarin expansions going forward.