FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[BigTxEars]

Oh, good. I thought I must be the only one who had never even seen that little arrow before, let alone know what it was there for.

What I am about to say next is not directed at anyone in particular, and certainly not yourself or @Next Big Thing , but this is a discussion forum - not a peer reviewed journal. We all see a lot of rumors, speculation, and even fanboy dreaming in various threads, and I doubt any of us can completely recall just where or when or in what context we first heard something mentioned. Most (reputable) posters aren't deliberately making stuff up; All the details just get jumbled in people's minds and it is too easy to confuse baseless rumor with confirmed Disney policy. Surely we aren't going to have to begin citing sources whenever we discuss things.

Honestly I was not following the post being reference I just found the arrow thing interesting

I do think the statement being posted should determine the level of proof needed. I once said I was excited by all the new things coming to Downtown Disney and a reply said "show me the links to the building permits or it's nothing to get excited about".......yeah that is a bit overboard since it was just my opinion.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The redemption rate of Legacy FP and FP+ is something that is quite different. FP+ is a much harder concept to grasp for the average guest.

But Disney says it's being used far more. It's easier, just ask them.

 

[Next Big Thing]

But Disney says it's being used far more. It's easier, just ask them.

A CM feeding guests lines to make the product sound good and reality are two totally different things.

 

[AmiB]

My family went to Hollywood Studios today. We have had several annual passes and know how to navigate the parks. We had a FastPass for TSMM, which wasn't until 7:25. We are always at the parks at rope drop and have what we want done by just after lunch. We sometimes return later for shows, etc. Know that TSMM was FastPass only this week after following this site, we decided to cancel dinner reservations and return to ride a couple things and see Fantasmic. What a mistake!!

Sometime today TSMM was shut down...either to see what happened or because it really didn't work. The wait for FastPass only at 7:25 was over 60 minutes because of returning guests from earlier. We didn't get to see Fantasmic either since there were so many FastPasses given out (I would guess to people upset about TSMM. It was standing room only 45 minutes before the show. Disney may not care what I think, but I can vote with my wallet, and I can tell a lot of people who know how often we go and how we navigate the parks.

It was a mess. See below. The guy in the red shirt is an employee telling people where the end of the line was

 

[BrerJon]

I can't answer that question flat out, but even if they do still spend money, the key thing is, will they come back?

It makes no difference if they don't come back. Most visitors to WDW are either first timers, who don't know any better, or DVC members who were locked in years ago to visiting, regardless of quality. If one guest doesn't come back, there's four Brazilians waiting to take their spot in the great circle of WDW Dining Plan Fastpass+ life.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It makes no difference if they don't come back. Most visitors to WDW are either first timers, who don't know any better, or DVC members who were locked in years ago to visiting, regardless of quality.

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, while consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, all the time consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

So desperate actually that they're considering putting upwards of $75 million into new attractions over the next two years.

 

[ford91exploder]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, while consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

Then the question becomes WHY does Disney not DO something to woo DVC owners back to the parks, In the beginning park admission for DVC owners was FREE, $100 bucks off an AP or renewal is not enough to offset the huge increases in food and beverage costs,

Let's not even talk about the cheap generic merchandise. Disney blew the HM Gift shop already - you can buy the stuff ONLINE!!!! - For HM fans Disney blew the 'visit to buy stuff opportunity' , Contrast that to Mysterious Island at DisneySea there are unique items which are ONLY available at the island itself - not in the park or online.

I'm a long term DVC owner - I CAN sell my interests at a small profit and this year I've begun actively considering it because the parks are stale and show no signs of improving. The reason I have not is there is a LOT to do in Central FL even when you exclude theme parks entirely. As a nature photographer there are several lifetimes worth of subjects in the swamps and bayous of Central FL.

We are the canonical DVC owners who rent a car and eat in their kitchen most meals that started about 2011 when the onsite dining became obscenely overpriced. I can recall Biergarten being 23.95 in 'high' season now it's $40+ bucks and the offerings are a pale shadow of what they used to be only 5 years ago.

I will happily pay for Michelin 4 star dining, I WILL NOT pay 4 star prices for a 0 star meal. Golden Corral is right down the road selling pretty much the same offering as the average Disney buffet but at 25% of the price. GC is a good value, Disney - not so much.

 

[ford91exploder]

So desperate actually that they're considering putting upwards of $75 million into new attractions over the next two years.

Add a zero to that and I'll think they are serious, 75 Million will build some themed toilets at WDI costing models

 

[ford91exploder]

My family went to Hollywood Studios today. We have had several annual passes and know how to navigate the parks. We had a FastPass for TSMM, which wasn't until 7:25. We are always at the parks at rope drop and have what we want done by just after lunch. We sometimes return later for shows, etc. Know that TSMM was FastPass only this week after following this site, we decided to cancel dinner reservations and return to ride a couple things and see Fantasmic. What a mistake!!

Sometime today TSMM was shut down...either to see what happened or because it really didn't work. The wait for FastPass only at 7:25 was over 60 minutes because of returning guests from earlier. We didn't get to see Fantasmic either since there were so many FastPasses given out (I would guess to people upset about TSMM. It was standing room only 45 minutes before the show. Disney may not care what I think, but I can vote with my wallet, and I can tell a lot of people who know how often we go and how we navigate the parks.

It was a mess. See below. The guy in the red shirt is an employee telling people where the end of the line was View attachment 68962 View attachment 68963

Sad, just sad - how far Disney has fallen

 

[ford91exploder]

Oh, good. I thought I must be the only one who had never even seen that little arrow before, let alone know what it was there for.

What I am about to say next is not directed at anyone in particular, and certainly not yourself or @Next Big Thing , but this is a discussion forum - not a peer reviewed journal. We all see a lot of rumors, speculation, and even fanboy dreaming in various threads, and I doubt any of us can completely recall just where or when or in what context we first heard something mentioned. Most (reputable) posters aren't deliberately making stuff up; All the details just get jumbled in people's minds and it is too easy to confuse baseless rumor with confirmed Disney policy. Surely we aren't going to have to begin citing sources whenever we discuss things.

Agree, I post here when I have downtime so I don't always have my sources when I post, And I enjoy speculating on what will happen I seem to hit nerves over at CP and with the 'Dusters' on a regular basis though.

Since my job involves being a researcher and analyst I collect data points and try to put them together as a coherent whole my conclusions which are mine alone seem to upset a bunch of people. I am NOT an optimist and I volunteer for our state/county emergency management group so my mindset is 'Plan for the worst possible outcome and hope for the best'

I've been a Disney fan since forever and I'm simply aghast at the downhill trajectory of the parks since Iger took over.

 

[ford91exploder]

Hey, I want the pen in the coffin and that is not available online!!

Correction - not available online yet just wait a few weeks and you will be able to order it.

 

[BrerJon]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

Thanks for the explanation, that's fascinating that even DVC visitors are dropping off. If that's not going to be a wake-up call to TDO that they're too complacent then I don't know what would be.

 

[Hopeful]

Does Disney let people know about their "tests" as with TSMM ahead of time??? We do our due diligence when planning trips, looking at ride refurbs,get fast passes, etc. but to be totally blindsided, after paying tons of $ for rooms tickets, etc., not even being able to stand in line, knowing full well it's prob gonna be 1- 1 1/2 hrs poss (which we have done) not even being able to ride PERIOD,unless you have the FP?! CRIMINAL! TERRIBLE! It would totally ruin it for a family!! How long is Disney thinking people will put up with this stuff? I will certainly be way more careful, or try to be, planning our next trip, maybe I won't plan a trip for fear of being disappointed! It would be diff if the ride were down,just come back later. But seeing people getting on, and not being able to get on yourself, I am actually now dreading our next trip!

 

[DougK]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, while consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

@ParentsOf4 This describes my situation perfectly. We still like vacationing in Orlando and we like the DVC accomodations (for the lower DVC price). But the price of Park admission is really getting out of hand. So overall I agree with you but I think if Disney is desperate to get us DVC'ers back into the parks they could do a better job. The $300 off of an AP a couple of years ago was fantastic and we happily purchased them, but the current offer of 4 different parks over 4 days for $199 has too many restrictions to be appealing. If Disney is really desperate to get us back into the parks they need to come up with better offers, or simply make the $300 (or more!) off an AP offer permanent. At one time park admission was free with your DVC membership. I do not expect that offer any longer but I think they should sell all AP's to DVC members for 50% off. That would make it a no-brainer for most DVC'ers and Disney would benefit greatly.

 

[jakeman]

Agree, I post here when I have downtime so I don't always have my sources when I post, And I enjoy speculating on what will happen I seem to hit nerves over at CP and with the 'Dusters' on a regular basis though.

Since my job involves being a researcher and analyst I collect data points and try to put them together as a coherent whole my conclusions which are mine alone seem to upset a bunch of people.

When you present your conclusions as fact based on faulty or hidden data that are then disproved, yeah folks get annoyed at your persistent falsehoods. It doesn't make them "Dusters", it makes them sane.

 

[dadddio]

The wait time for the FP line? IMO it shouldnt even be that long if its FP+ only. Thanks for the update.

I would think that you would want to build in some wait time to account for the variations in return behavior.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Please stop with the "DVC members locked in" myth.

The reality is that, in growing numbers, DVC members have stopped going to WDW theme parks. Instead of spending at WDW's theme parks, they've been staying onsite at WDW's Deluxe Resorts paying a fraction of what non-DVC members pay for a room, eating in their rooms which contain functioning kitchens, visiting Universal and other Orlando attractions, while consuming Disney's 'free' services such as DME, DVC member pool hopping privileges, watching Wishes from outside the Magic Kingdom, etc.

It's gotten so bad that Disney has started offering DVC members deep theme park ticket discounts; $300 off annual passes a couple of years ago, a $199 4-day ticket this year (vs. the $294 price you pay).

Even worse, as DVC members get bored with Disney offering the same-old attractions every year, they've been selling their memberships on the resale market, hurting Disney's direct DVC sales. This year, Disney is on pace to sell only a fraction of the DVC points they sold 5-8 years ago when they were able to quickly sell out the large SSR and BLT.

DVC members have been renting their DVC points to non-DVC members, hurting Disney's highly profitable hotel room rentals, resulting in a plunging Deluxe Resort occupancy rate. It's gotten so bad that Disney no longer can fill their Deluxe Resorts even during peak season. This summer, the Wilderness Lodge ran at about a 75% occupancy rate (below the Metro Orlando average), even as the Wilderness Lodge's DVC rooms (which cost only a fraction of the hotel rooms) ran at near-100% occupancy.

The rise of the Internet in recent years has made it incredibly easy for DVC members to sell or rent their points when they decide not to visit WDW exactly because DVC members perceive that it has declined.

So please stop thinking that DVC members are "locked in".

The reality is that Disney is desperate to get them (and their money) back into the theme parks.

There is truth to the "DVC members locked in" myth. It's just not true for DVC member = turnstyle spin perspective.

While the Mouse would certainly be happy if all DVC members visited their theme parks, the truth is that once you sign your soul to the DVC contract - you've provided TDO what they want: your money upfront and your commitment for future money as stipulated by the contract. Other than making sure the resort doesn't burn to the ground or completely falls apart, they have no incentive to do anything more to get the terms of the contract fufilled. At the point you make your commitment, you've provided them with compound interest. Much like Ticketmaster selling you seats to a show that won't happen until next year, they don't care if you actually come back and use them. They've got your money and are earning intrest on it and can factor in your maintenance going forward.

TDO is banking (intentional pun) on the short term gains of DVC sales to their pocketbooks versus the long term harm to the brand that their mismanagement of the resort exposes on repeat visits.

The sad truth is that they understand that the Disney Parks legacy of historically providing an outstanding vaction product continues to drive new business into Orlando. TDO knows "there's a sucker born every minute" that hasn't been to WDW multiple times and they can continue to rely on them. They've also clearly demonstrated that they are willing to lose repeat business by cutting quality every chance they can and by not reinvesting in what truly does drive people with the desire to return to the resort year after year - new and improved experiences.

If TDO really cared about getting DVC members into their parks year after year, it's not discounts that would make people need to step foot into them. It's giving DVC members something new quality experiences that they haven't done before.

Unfortunately, TDO knows that in terms of capital expenses... keeping a DVC member happy and visiting the parks is far more expensive than getting a rube that just fell off the turnip truck/plane/Magical Express. They have every incentive to sell the rube the Magic Bean that is DVC and start the whole process all over again.

 

[Bryansworld]

In the past, (2002-2010) I used to go to WDW every year... .sometimes 2 times a year. I knew it would cost more to get in the gates, but then once I got in, prices for Food and drinks were less expensive than most amusement / theme parks. Such as a Coke for $2.20 instead of $3.50. I could eat a Grilled Chicken Wrap, Fries, and get a coke for $9-10. The main reason I loved going to WDW was because of the WOW factor of the guest experience. It felt magical. It was escaping to a different world. Cast Members were happy, the park was clean, freshly painted, light bulbs all worked, and the rides were all in good shape. Park Music and Atmosphere was top notch. The stress in my life went away. Sure I still made a "Game Plan" of what attractions I was going to hit. I knew when I was going to get a fast pass. I also made a few Restaurant Reservations. I had a plan, but still could relax and enjoy a vacation. If I felt like riding Big Thunder Mountain again, I could. Getting a spot for Fireworks was simple... find a spot 30-45 minutes before and it was fair game to everyone else. Guests also seemed more friendly and respectable to their fellow guests back in the day as well.

Now, we fast forward to 2014. The price of a drink and food in general is just as high as other parks, and the ticket prices have become extremely high. Prices are over $100 a day. Food meals are now $15+ for Fast Food and $40-50 each for a Restaurant (without Alcohol.. all that and increase to $60) Disney wants me to pick my fast passes 6 months in advance, with my food reservations, use up some of my Fast Passes if I want the same viewing places for Fireworks, plus limit how many fast passes I can get on favorite rides per day. (I used to use a few on Tower of Terror a day.) Guests have also become more self centered and rude as they are trying to get the most out of the money that they are charged for their Dream Vacation. Most attractions now have Fast Pass + Available causing rides that had 10 minute waits because of how efficient they were, to have 45 minute waits.

I have come to accept these changes. As I could still wait in slow moving stand-by lines. Now they want guests to use Fast Passes for Quick Service meals, as well as make some rides Fast Pass + Only. (I know this is only a test phase.... but still) Maybe they will start selling Mickey Tablets, so I can carry it around with me all day and follow a set schedule that Disney picks for me. That's more planning than my regular routine where I am working. So Why would I spend over a thousand dollars to have to work, plan, and deal with sometimes miserable people who are just trying to get the best bang for their buck. Not to mention no new rides or attractions other than a Junior Mine Ride Coaster (that took 3 years to build) and Meet and Greets where it may also be Fast Pass only or have a 3 hour wait. And I love the cast members and feel so bad for them. Most of them seem happy and try to make the place feel magical. But have reduced hours, are paid low wages, and some seem miserable.

The sad fact is that Disney can get away with all of this because the general public will pay it and work with it. I hope that guests complain enough about the Toy Story Midway Mania test so that it never happens again. I do hope they increase capacity on it, as well as on Soarin. I love Disney and will always have a special place for it. But I want the Magical Escape feeling back. I want to go to a different world and have a great time. I think this is why I have grown to love the Harry Potter areas at Universal. Sorry for the long rant. Just had to say what I feel.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Does Disney let people know about their "tests" as with TSMM ahead of time??? We do our due diligence when planning trips, looking at ride refurbs,get fast passes, etc. but to be totally blindsided, after paying tons of $ for rooms tickets, etc., not even being able to stand in line, knowing full well it's prob gonna be 1- 1 1/2 hrs poss (which we have done) not even being able to ride PERIOD,unless you have the FP?! CRIMINAL! TERRIBLE! It would totally ruin it for a family!! How long is Disney thinking people will put up with this stuff? I will certainly be way more careful, or try to be, planning our next trip, maybe I won't plan a trip for fear of being disappointed! It would be diff if the ride were down,just come back later. But seeing people getting on, and not being able to get on yourself, I am actually now dreading our next trip!

I don't understand how there is a winning time to do something like this. Either you or somebody else will be involved no matter when they do it. I would certainly hope that no one spends that much money and it all hinges on a single attraction. Seriously, much ado about nothing. Repeat after me... It's a theme park! It has hundreds of other things to see. The world will not come to an end because it is a little more difficult to get into nothing more then a large sized video game. Life will go on.