FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[asianway]

Wait.... So if you decide to get a different Tier 1 FP+ (e.g. ToT, RnRC), does that mean you can't ride TSMM at all with this system in place????

Correct. Now you see where this can go, right?

Then pay to play fp+ baby

 

[Next Big Thing]

Surely Fastpass+es for TSM are booked up weeks in advance aren't they? I'll be amazed if anyone who didn't book way in advance gets to ride it this week.

Normally you can easily get one within a day or two of when you are looking for.

 

[asianway]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

It would certainly reduce the fire Marshall capacity of the entire park, but they haven't thought that through yet

 

[TheRabbit]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

Very interesting observation.

 

[George]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

It would certainly reduce the fire Marshall capacity of the entire park, but they haven't thought that through yet

Interesting. I hadn't even thought about that aspect yet. It did occur to me that this could defeat the purpose of building entertaining queues. There are few times any more when MK feels easy to navigate. Do we have evidence that this could be for all the big rides and not just just TSMM and Soarin'? Has anyone ever pointed out in a meeting that a couple of more attractions in Pixar Place may actually have the desired effect? What if they add just one more decent ride to Pixar Place and it renders the third track unnecessary? This news does fill me with a sense of foreboding, but I don't want to jump the gun into panic.

It is obviously a test to see if it is possible to completely control the crowds by issuing everyone a time to go to it. That was the rumor that floated back when the original FP was instituted. The prediction was that eventually all rides of substance would have a specific time slot for everyone.

Personally, I'm glad that they are trying it out because now they might be able to realize that they cannot exercise that much control over people and their movements without some heady protests and anger. They need to get it out of their systems. FP has been a pain in the rear since it was first thought about. I think that eventually FP will be completely dropped because not only has it not fixed any problems but has created hostility and discontent far beyond what just standing in a moving line did. It was an idea that looked good on paper, but never took into account human nature.

I don't like FP myself, but I don't think it is ever going to disappear. I do think that if standby lines disappeared there would be tremendous push back. So, my guess is that we'll wind up with something similar to what we have now. TSMM with a third track would be a place where they will have to decide if they want more FP or more standby.

 

[Next Big Thing]

That's not really possible though. You can't give out more FP's than the total daily capacity of the attraction (plus a certain percentage to allow for no-shows), and once those are exhausted, without a standby option any further guests are not accommodated.

Sure it's possible. It's like how airlines overbook sometimes. If Disney has figured out the average % of people that skip their FP+ reservation, they should in theory be able to overbook the attraction to a certain extent and be fine.

 

[Dukeblue1227]

You are not justified in feeling that way.

Clearly you are wrong, and in the minority.

The guest experience is better than ever at WDW, and if you don't agree, then YOU are the problem.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Hoping you are... Otherwise welcome to the boards, and I'm glad you enjoyed your first trip to WDW last month...

Also would have been a wildly unnecessary attack on someone strictly expressing their opinion that had zero affect on you.

 

[TheRabbit]

If they want to lower the wait times on Toy Story, get that Cars Land built..fast!

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

I didn't even think about that aspect of it. Yikes.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Again, that doesn't prove anything when Standby isn't an option. They have 6 years of data that shows the redemption rate for Fastpass.

The redemption rate of Legacy FP and FP+ is something that is quite different. FP+ is a much harder concept to grasp for the average guest.

 

[Suwithoutane]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Hoping you are... Otherwise welcome to the boards, and I'm glad you enjoyed your first trip to WDW last month...

Also would have been a wildly unnecessary attack on someone strictly expressing their opinion that had zero affect on you.

These are not the Droids you're looking for...

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I think I agree that it doesn't make it much better to much worse. The only advantage is avoiding the mad rush to rides like TSMM to get a fast pass. And it does help with park hopping (am at one park without fast pass until the crowds get bad. Afternoon at pool. Evening at second park with FP lined up. )

And I don't think that people should stop going though many have said that they might. But I do see a lot of vitriol (not from you) aimed especially at anyone who doesn't HATE FP+. Much the same way you notice people being told they shouldn't go if they don't like FP+, if anyone defends it, they are told they are disney defenders or whatever.

Look, it has it lovers and it's haters. Then there are the rest of us. This test is awful if it were to become the way of the future. As a test, it is merely annoying.

I appreciate how balanced your post is, but I have to say, I disagree about it helping with park hopping. I've had multiple experiences when I decided to leave a park before my third FP+, and at the next park, was told that they couldn't cancel my old FP to give me a new one because it was in a different park (this was when the app was down; yes, it's happened to me more than once). The cast members even had an attitude like "I know this is stupid, I'm really sorry." From my experience with it, it's made park hopping much less fun and convenient.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I question the wisdom of this from a crowd control standpoint. As a cast member I worked operations/attractions and also in close proximity to some of the Magic Kingdom mountains. It's generally believed that a HUGE portion of a park's attendance are, at any given time, contained within the queue lines of the various attractions in a park. For an attraction that puts through 2,000 people an hour, with a wait of an hour long, that means theoretically there are 2,000 people standing inside the queue of that attraction (I say "theoretically" because FastPass messed those numbers around some).

On the rare occasion I witnessed, say, Thunder and Splash Mountain being evac'd and having their queues emptied at the same time (it sucks but it happens), you could tell the park almost couldn't handle the sudden addition of the several thousand guests being emptied into the walkways. If every major attraction were to switch to this "queue-less" system, and effectively turning the walkways of the park itself into the queue for the rides, I can't even imagine how much more crowded and insane the parks would feel. On busy days, there could potentially be thousands (or even tens of thousands) more people roaming around the outdoor areas of the park that would otherwise be in line for something. Factor that into how crowded the parks feel already, and I could see this causing quite the crowd control problem.

Another thing to add to this concept of more attractions going FP+ only - inevitably, FP+ will slow guests down in terms of getting rides/attractions completed. Popular rides/attractions will always go through their allotted reservations faster than non-popular attractions. Return times for popular attractions would likely fall later and later, and later in the day. Assuming there isn't some fundamental change to the FP+ system that would allow you to bank "popular/tier 1 caliber" attractions for later and still use FP+ for other attractions, then guests will be forced to make a daunting decision - do I take a FP+ reservation for an E-ticket attraction several hours in the future or do I take quicker return times for lesser attractions?

Ultimately, I don't see how guests could experience the same number of rides/attractions in a standby-less queue world than they could in a virtual queue only world unless Disney allows some sort of increase in the ability to be multi-queued at the same time. What guests could get done in a day may take several if standby queues go away all together.

FastPass has always been about providing guests the ability to multitask and be in two places at once. You could virtually queue for a popular attractions while eating, shopping, or even experiencing another attraction. Of course doing so, allows guests to get more done in less time - which is exactly what TDO is wanting to avoid as it exposes how little there is to do at 2 of the 4 parks in Orlando.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Hoping you are... Otherwise welcome to the boards, and I'm glad you enjoyed your first trip to WDW last month...

Also would have been a wildly unnecessary attack on someone strictly expressing their opinion that had zero affect on you.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was honestly trying to brainwash you by telling you what to think, and then posting a picture of ObiWan. I assumed that work.

Internetting is hard.

A view of almost any of my posts over the past 10 years (many of which are on the previous two pages of this same thread) will show you my viewpoint is sympathetic to yours. Maybe grab a little context before taking a swing.

 

[ford91exploder]

Wait.... So if you decide to get a different Tier 1 FP+ (e.g. ToT, RnRC), does that mean you can't ride TSMM at all with this system in place????

Yes

 

[ford91exploder]

Interesting. I hadn't even thought about that aspect yet. It did occur to me that this could defeat the purpose of building entertaining queues. There are few times any more when MK feels easy to navigate. Do we have evidence that this could be for all the big rides and not just just TSMM and Soarin'? Has anyone ever pointed out in a meeting that a couple of more attractions in Pixar Place may actually have the desired effect? What if they add just one more decent ride to Pixar Place and it renders the third track unnecessary? This news does fill me with a sense of foreboding, but I don't want to jump the gun into panic.



I don't like FP myself, but I don't think it is ever going to disappear. I do think that if standby lines disappeared there would be tremendous push back. So, my guess is that we'll wind up with something similar to what we have now. TSMM with a third track would be a place where they will have to decide if they want more FP or more standby.

I think the FP+ only park is inevitable, C level management has already decided that this is the path forward and time and time again TDO has demonstrated that they do not care about pushback from the guests. And unfortunately the fan community has rewarded them by continuing to visit the parks. By cuts in quality and attractions TDO has managed to squeeze out increases in revenue.

The ONLY thing which will cause TDO to reverse course is decrease in attendance and PRGS. Sorry it's a bleak picture but it's reality and it sucks.

So kiddies 'Embrace the suck' which is WDW today.

Personally I was never a FP commando, I like to wander the parks and see what interests me at the moment it might be watching a show or demonstration or riding a ride or just people watching and I might pull one or 2 FP's for favorite attractions.

The new FP+ only model has a huge impact on my touring style and when it becomes the norm, Well I will no longer visit WDW.

 

[asianway]

I think the FP+ only park is inevitable, C level management has already decided that this is the path forward and time and time again TDO has demonstrated that they do not care about pushback from the guests. And unfortunately the fan community has rewarded them by continuing to visit the parks. By cuts in quality and attractions TDO has managed to squeeze out increases in revenue.

The ONLY thing which will cause TDO to reverse course is decrease in attendance and PRGS. Sorry it's a bleak picture but it's reality and it sucks.

So kiddies 'Embrace the suck' which is WDW today.

Personally I was never a FP commando, I like to wander the parks and see what interests me at the moment it might be watching a show or demonstration or riding a ride or just people watching and I might pull one or 2 FP's for favorite attractions.

The new FP+ only model has a huge impact on my touring style and when it becomes the norm, Well I will no longer visit WDW.

As the clearer picture emerges, is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I think the FP+ only park is inevitable, C level management has already decided that this is the path forward and time and time again TDO has demonstrated that they do not care about pushback from the guests. And unfortunately the fan community has rewarded them by continuing to visit the parks. By cuts in quality and attractions TDO has managed to squeeze out increases in revenue.

The new FP+ only model has a huge impact on my touring style and when it becomes the norm, Well I will no longer visit WDW.

Unfortunately, I largely agree with you about FP+. This is my first year with an AP, and FP+ has made it really really difficult to experience things since I come on a whim frequently. I've still never eaten at BOG for dinner . I don't think I'll ever stop going to WDW, but if FP+ (especially if it's FP+ only) becomes more prolific, I don't think I'd be able to justify shelling out for another AP.

 

[ford91exploder]

As the clearer picture emerges, is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

I think "I Told You So" is entirely appropriate at this moment in time, It was amazing to hear the fanboi's say that the new reservation system would NEVER be used to upcharge but if not WHY build it, It would have been FAR cheaper to build what I called 'e-Fastpass' which would have used RFID cards/bands/NFC and simply replaced paper FP's with electronic ones.

As soon as I saw that 'reservations' would be needed I assumed that there would be at some point in time an upcharge for access to popular rides and attractions in addition to park admission.

This also makes each ride a profit center so TDO can gauge the profitability of each attraction.

Bottom line 'Follow the Benjamins', Guest Satisfaction, Customer Service and the 'Disney Difference' is DEAD i.e. 'it's so 90's...

 

[PhotoDave219]

This is bound to make things much, much worse.

Why would anyone want to come to for vacation or to escape when you are forced to schedule everything you want to do six months out? People do that organized, meaningless, rat-race crap at work every day, why would you want your vacation to be the same way?