FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[Buried20KLeague]

I never post here and have less and less desire to visit WDW. But on this subject am I totally crazy thinking that if they want to "fix" the capacity issues at TSMM & Soaring, how about building more great family rides at each of these parks? Why spend so much money, waste so much time, and alienate so many devoted fans trying to invent some magic (joke intended) that will somehow fix the issue? Oh and if they want to increase sales at restaurants & merch how about better products? Am I totally off base?

Nope.

Clearly you're not Disney Middle Management Material.

 

[evilzorac]

Nope.

Clearly you're not Disney Middle Management Material.

Whew! Thank goodness

 

[CDavid]

I never post here and have less and less desire to visit WDW. But on this subject am I totally crazy thinking that if they want to "fix" the capacity issues at TSMM & Soaring, how about building more great family rides at each of these parks? Why spend so much money, waste so much time, and alienate so many devoted fans trying to invent some magic (joke intended) that will somehow fix the issue? Oh and if they want to increase sales at restaurants & merch how about better products? Am I totally off base?

I would say you need to post more often, for you are right on target.

 

[Bairstow]

how about building more great family rides at each of these parks?

Now that's just crazy talk.

 

[No Time To Say Hello Goodbye]

I fully understand Disney needs to collect data about the ride for the third track, possible FP only line, whatever. I just feel this situation could have been handled much better. For starters, Disney announces when they will have scheduled maintenance in advance. Unexpected ride closures happen, but this test was likely planned. It would have been simple for Disney to announce last week that this week they would be doing a test. Then guests would have had the option to adjust their schedules or come to the park knowing they couldn't ride TSMM without a FP. If you KNOW a ride isn't available when you enter a park you aren't as upset as when you show up expecting to ride and there is an unannounced test occurring. Second, the test doesn't have to run on consecutive days to gather data. I would think it would be easy to say every Monday in the month of October we are going to run a test on TSMM. Still several days of data, but more flexibility for guests. Guests then would have had the option of changing park days if they really wanted to ride TSMM and were on their once in a decade trip. Finally, a third option could have been to temporarily do away with tiers. During this week we will be running a test and on these test days no tiering system is in effect. So guests feel like they "get something" in exchange for the test messing with their plans. Any one of those things would have made this a bit easier for most guests to accept.

Does Disney have to do any of these things? Of course not. It is their park, their ride, their choice. But Disney should CHOOSE to. That would tell the guest "Hey, we have to do this test but we do care about you and your vacation so we are going to try to make this test easier on you". That is called customer service

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Okay, I mostly lurk and rarely post, and I guess I get the Capt. Obvious award for saying this...

But.... isn't it curious that every time a thread like this is posted where a new unexpected process, or closing, or change occurs, that a small zealous group of users expend an inordinate amount of time contradicting, belittling, and/or discounting those that are disappointed or upset.

It is a natural reaction for people to be disappointed when things change -- everyone deals with it in their own unique ways, which often include the ability to vent for awhile with others who share your interests. I truly do not understand the motivation of people who jump in and immediately start to poke holes in someone's post that is mostly driven by feelings.

As for the immediate issue at hand -- obviously it is disappointing to show up at a park and see that one of your favorite rides is down for renovation, closed for an unexpected break, closed for weather, etc., but the difference is that the disappointment is shared by all and is pretty much explainable and outside of anyone's control at that moment. The distinction here is that this is directly within Disney's control, was not announced so that anyone could adjust their plans at even a few days ahead, and is counterintuitive to how amusement parks have and continue to operate. There is also a very visible psychological component at play here that shows that SOME people are allowed to ride, but YOU are not even allowed to WAIT (in other words, move along, we don't want your kind here...) Think about how this has also played out in other places this year like BOG.

I do realize that people cast the golden age of WDW in this sepia-toned everything-was-perfect nostalgia, but one thing that Disney always used to do very well was provide an egalitarian environment for ALL their guests. This in my opinion is the worst casualty of MM+ and FP+ -- WDW is now a land of haves and have-nots, and it seems like every week I read another post that enhances that notion.

Yep. That's a dead-on assessment.

Go back years ago when we first started talking about the rumored "Next Gen" system that was on the way to WDW. Many predicted exactly this would happen. And unfortunately, we've been right.

 

[MichWolv]

I respectfully disagree. I have never waited less than 35 minutes standby for TSMM in California and it's a very lousy line. The standby line in Florida has it's faults, but at least there's something interesting to look at.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. The TSMM line at DCA is hot, boring, unthemed, crowded, and pathetic. The only remotely interesting thing in the queue is Potato Head, and you pass that 1 minute after entering. I much prefer the queue at DHS. I won't wait 30 minutes at DCA because of that queue, but a 45 minute wait at DHS doesn't bother me much at all.

 

[wendysue]

Well, I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad about this. On the one hand, I know that our upcoming trip will be the last, therefore will save mega dollars in the future. On the other hand, we had some good times there and will miss it. The direction that Disney is taking now with way too much planning and reserving, and the price for all of this so called "improvement" at the cost of any spontaneous "fun" is (in my opinion) a really bad way to go. We had said all along that when they started scripting every moment of our vacation, it was time to move on.
Another good thing, maybe, will be many other people doing the same, and then the rest of you won't have such long lines, right?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I dunno....to me they are just over thinking this thing. The real answer to guest satisfaction is to simplify things. Not make them more complicated. Weather you like FP+ or hate it, truth is it complicates your visit. I have zero confidence that what ever conclusions that come from this "test" will not make my visit less complicated.

I'm the go-to person for virtually anyone that knows me (or is friends with someone who knows me) for WDW advice and planning, etc, as I'm sure so many on this board are as well. To say I'm asked by dozens a year wouldn't be an overstatement.

Over the past year, I've had far more people get frustrated with the amount of planning, researching, and reserving than I've ever encountered over the previous 10 years. By a vast margin. It's not even close.

I've even had people get so frustrated with it all (and hence, with me) that they get overwhelmed and stop asking for help. Then I've had those same people come back from vacation and tell me they regret not following through with me because they were clearly in over their heads and their trip suffered because of it. They just couldn't fathom that all I was suggesting they do be necessary to "keep up with the Joneses" in the park, and ensure they get to experience as much as possible. The conversation I've had with people over the amount of required planning has happened so often, I've actually written a document to explain why it's necessary to do so much, and what it means if you do, and conversely, what it means if you don't... So they can make their own choice on how deep to go. I have that doc at the ready for the moment I'm asked by people if all the planning is really necessary... Which is virtually every time someone comes to me for help.

It's crazy. It's all just absolutely crazy. It used to be that planning for a cruise was over-the-top. Shore excursions, dinner times, mapping out activities during the days on the ship, transfers... All that is a cakewalk compared to what's necessary to make the most of a WDW trip now.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Each year, a visit should get simpler. The opposite is happening.

In the old days, you could go to a ride, stick your ticket in the machine, and get the next available Fastpass, or wait in line whenever you wanted if they were all gone. Simple.

Now, unless you download their malware app and have your phone with you and fully charged, you have to go to a kiosk nowhere near the ride, enter your name, address, birthday etc. in a clumsy terminal keyboard that barely works, then when they've NSA-style data captured all they can (or you've spent five minutes trying to enter fake details and zip codes so they don't spam your life and track your every move), you're either told nothing is left, go and ride something that's a walk-on anyway, or you can choose a good time from whatever is left. Works for some, but boy is it complicated in comparison.

I like you.

And I LOVE your avatar.

 

[seascape]

Rather than build a third track in Studio 1, build it in the existing queue and require fast pass. Then use Studio 1 to build the Monster Roller coaster.

 

[ford91exploder]

This is going to be my last post on this because it's off topic, but that's not what you postulated. You flat out accused Disney of forging their hotel occupancy numbers in official filing documents. That's not "discussing a DVC conversion".
That's really the only two words you needed.

As a refresher I suggest you re-read the Spirited 8'th Wonder thread

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-spirited-8th-wonder-wdws-future-you.887031/

What I said was Disney was artificially inflating occupancy by taking blocks of rooms offline, Then reporting the occupancy using the room count based on the AVAILABLE rooms not the TOTAL rooms, Both methods are accepted for official reporting however the AVAILABLE room count artificially inflates the occupancy figures unless you do the math and normalize for the TOTAL room count which no one even Wall St Analysts do except for the contrarians who make a living by NOT TRUSTING the 'Official' numbers.

If you recall @WDW1974 in one of this threads noted the REAL occupancy at times in some of the Deluxes was in the high 40's to low 50's at some times - a far cry from the REPORTED 75%-84% occupancy.

 

[wdisney9000]

Again, that doesn't prove anything when Standby isn't an option. They have 6 years of data that shows the redemption rate for Fastpass.

Heres what I dont get and pardon me if its been mentioned. If they are doing all these FP+ only tests to get an idea of how many guests are going through each hour or day and/or to maximize turnstyle clicks, then why dont they refer to all the data they have accumulated during the last 10 months+ of FP+ being operational? Did they not collect any data during all this time? How is what theyre doing now going to give them any more input than they already have?

They spent so much money to create a data collection system that seems to NOT collect the correct type of information.

 

[tigger1968]

So we are basically 25% of the way through a 4 day test of one attraction in one theme park. So far I have been told in this thread that this is the premiere attraction at DHS, that it's the worst, that Disney is apparently full of evil managers who want to ruin your vacation, that Disney is going to make every attraction FP+ only, and so on and so on.

So here's what we know. There's one attraction undergoing a test for 4 days to examine some aspects of how best to incorporate a third track into the attraction. That's it.

The best rumor I have heard about this is that it's part of a larger test for the third theater for Soarin'. Basically evaluating best practices on a smaller scale.

Don't get me wrong, I think that FP+ is the worst ever. I have friends at WDW now and they say trying to get FP for anything is a total hassle. I personally don't have any experience with it at this point.

I think the real crux of this matter is that TDO should have been MUCH more forthcoming about the test, and communicated it well in advance. Then arriving guests have time to react. But given the penchant they have for not revealing anything about future attractions and such, I am sure they wanted to keep this as quiet as possible. Big PR mistake in my opinion.

I think TDO is in the process of getting a LOT of things wrong at the moment. But this test phase is short and necessary in order to get real time data. I have seen posts to the effect that they have plenty of FP data to go by. Unfortunately, nothing can replace running real time operations to see what variables exist. For example I have seen some comments regarding the sending of empty ride vehicles through. That's part of the evaluation of this and I am sure a huge concern regarding a move to a FP only line. It's not an optimal solution for anyone to restrict a ride, especially for a guest who doesn't book a FP ahead of time for this. But in the long term, taking 4 days to help improve, or enhance, the guest experience for years is something I consider acceptable. Do I think that moving to this queing model is the best choice? No. But I am speaking strictly to the necessity of this testing needing to occur. The results of this test may or may not validate the idea. It may end up showing that moving to a FP only / segregated Standby line is in fact impractical.

 

[jakeman]

As a refresher I suggest you re-read the Spirited 8'th Wonder thread

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-spirited-8th-wonder-wdws-future-you.887031/

What I said was Disney was artificially inflating occupancy by taking blocks of rooms offline, Then reporting the occupancy using the room count based on the AVAILABLE rooms not the TOTAL rooms, Both methods are accepted for official reporting however the AVAILABLE room count artificially inflates the occupancy figures unless you do the math and normalize for the TOTAL room count which no one even Wall St Analysts do except for the contrarians who make a living by NOT TRUSTING the 'Official' numbers.

If you recall @WDW1974 in one of this threads noted the REAL occupancy at times in some of the Deluxes was in the high 40's to low 50's at some times - a far cry from the REPORTED 75%-84% occupancy.

Mayhaps you should read your own previous rantings.

Are they?, Deluxes and Moderates had half empty parking lots over the holidays, I've NEVER seen that before and even with cooked books ie huge blocks of rooms at Deluxe's 'Out of Service' occupancy at the world was only 79% which is only 3% higher than immediately after 9/11. And now we have 30% discount ads every 10 minutes on TV.

I think WDW has a problem, They MAY have hit that quality/value inflection point and from now on all trends will be downward absent some big moves from TDO.

THIS is what bugs me about the OFFICIAL attendance figures, I've talked to a bunch of people who have visited Disney recently and the resorts are GHOST TOWNS empty parking lots, QS restaurants with no lines, Buses being empty or no more than half full.

Yet Disney tells the tale of 79% full resorts and only 5% of rooms being 'out of service'

 

[wdisney9000]

Each year, a visit should get simpler. The opposite is happening.

In the old days, you could go to a ride, stick your ticket in the machine, and get the next available Fastpass, or wait in line whenever you wanted if they were all gone. Simple.

Now, unless you download their malware app and have your phone with you and fully charged, you have to go to a kiosk nowhere near the ride, enter your name, address, birthday etc. in a clumsy terminal keyboard that barely works, then when they've NSA-style data captured all they can (or you've spent five minutes trying to enter fake details and zip codes so they don't spam your life and track your every move), you're either told nothing is left, go and ride something that's a walk-on anyway, or you can choose a good time from whatever is left. Works for some, but boy is it complicated in comparison.

I really think they care more about collecting all your personal information a hundred times over, rather than making you wait less time in line. Why cant they just make FP+ available to guests who stay at WDW resorts only? Hotel occupancy rates go up, Disney gets more money, guests who spend the extra money are satisfied and Disney can still collect all the data they want from on and off site guests. Simple.

Theyve come back to where they started as of late with handing out paper FP for marquee attractions so I think its safe to say that they have no clue what theyre doing aside from data collection.

 

[CDavid]

But this test phase is short and necessary in order to get real time data. I have seen posts to the effect that they have plenty of FP data to go by. Unfortunately, nothing can replace running real time operations to see what variables exist.

While conducting proper tests are always important (I've seen way too many assumptions made, only to be demonstrated false), I've yet to see anyone here speculate on just what data they may need which they either shouldn't already have, or else could not have been tested without shutting out the standby queue.

Regardless, however, this test represents remarkably poor communication and guest service. An attraction closure or refurbishment (unless unexpected, such as a ride breaking down) would ordinarily be announced in advance. There is really no excuse for guests not knowing of such a major change prior to arriving at the attraction entrance, only to possibly be told all Fast Passes have been distributed for the period. That seems particularly odd for a company which thinks it wants guest to pre-plan every minute of their vacations.

I just commented in another thread (which disappeared???) that if those of us who frequent a Walt Disney World message board, and spend hours discussing all things Disney in great detail, cannot keep straight the current queue procedures for various attractions, that a typical day guest must be truly confused and bewildered. Is the guest experience even considered when they conduct these "tests" or push people into FP+ pre-planning?

 

[jakeman]

While conducting proper tests are always important (I've seen way too many assumptions made, only to be demonstrated false), I've yet to see anyone here speculate on just what data they may need which they either shouldn't already have, or else could not have been tested without shutting out the standby queue.

Fastpass throughput versus actual returns and FP+ queue time.

Regardless, however, this test represents remarkably poor communication and guest service. An attraction closure or refurbishment (unless unexpected, such as a ride breaking down) would ordinarily be announced in advance. There is really no excuse for guests not knowing of such a major change prior to arriving at the attraction entrance, only to possibly be told all Fast Passes have been distributed for the period. That seems particularly odd for a company which thinks it wants guest to pre-plan every minute of their vacations.

Correct. This should have been announced weeks if not months ago and appropriate compensation should be provided for walks up today.

 

[wdisney9000]

So we are basically 25% of the way through a 4 day test of one attraction in one theme park. So far I have been told in this thread that this is the premiere attraction at DHS, that it's the worst, that Disney is apparently full of evil managers who want to ruin your vacation, that Disney is going to make every attraction FP+ only, and so on and so on.

So here's what we know. There's one attraction undergoing a test for 4 days to examine some aspects of how best to incorporate a third track into the attraction. That's it.

The best rumor I have heard about this is that it's part of a larger test for the third theater for Soarin'. Basically evaluating best practices on a smaller scale.

Don't get me wrong, I think that FP+ is the worst ever. I have friends at WDW now and they say trying to get FP for anything is a total hassle. I personally don't have any experience with it at this point.

I think the real crux of this matter is that TDO should have been MUCH more forthcoming about the test, and communicated it well in advance. Then arriving guests have time to react. But given the penchant they have for not revealing anything about future attractions and such, I am sure they wanted to keep this as quiet as possible. Big PR mistake in my opinion.

I think TDO is in the process of getting a LOT of things wrong at the moment. But this test phase is short and necessary in order to get real time data. I have seen posts to the effect that they have plenty of FP data to go by. Unfortunately, nothing can replace running real time operations to see what variables exist. For example I have seen some comments regarding the sending of empty ride vehicles through. That's part of the evaluation of this and I am sure a huge concern regarding a move to a FP only line. It's not an optimal solution for anyone to restrict a ride, especially for a guest who doesn't book a FP ahead of time for this. But in the long term, taking 4 days to help improve, or enhance, the guest experience for years is something I consider acceptable. Do I think that moving to this queing model is the best choice? No. But I am speaking strictly to the necessity of this testing needing to occur. The results of this test may or may not validate the idea. It may end up showing that moving to a FP only / segregated Standby line is in fact impractical.

I completely respect your approach in being objective and perhaps there IS something TDO is shooting for with this test, but what can truly become of all or any rides going FP+ only? You will still have a line of people. A line is a line no matter how you got there. Only difference is with FP+ you had to go online and make a reservation compared to the old way of just walking up or getting a return time for later in the day.

Disney can claim a million times that these tests are to reduce wait times but how does that possibly work when you have the same number of attractions as before but more guests visiting each year? Aside from FORCING people to ride an attraction that would be a walk on anyway, theres no way to decrease wait times without adding to attraction capacity. By "forcing", I mean that you can only select a ride from the FP+ pool of remaining attractions like COP, Stitchs Escape, or Country Bear Jamboree.

 

[wdisney9000]

Fastpass throughput versus actual returns and FP+ queue time.

Cant they just see 'actual returns' via the computer system? If I book a FP+ online and do not use it I would think the system would be able to see that. Also, when I scan my magic band at the entrance of TSMM, cant they track how long it is until I actually get on the ride?