Fourth Disneyland Hotel Officially Cancelled

[Old Mouseketeer]

Yes, and keeping the rest of the screening area in tact, this would add, not detract from capacity. It is only serving as a screening area for one block of harbor businesses, and as a grand gesture to those businesses. When the ramp fills up, additional guests are rerouted to the expanse of the eastern gateway security checkpoints. For perspective, please check out how small the escalators out of the new parking structure to the east are. This is actually a huge property.

Well, I can't disprove your plan (or prove my own, for that matter) because I have neither the data nor the know-how to compute the tolerances in order to meet Code and ensure safe crowd flow (although I don't think five feet wide would be adequate for either ramp). I just don't think it's practical to do screening at such a merge point trapped in a bottleneck like that. You would need to accommodate a minimum of one bag checker, one machine screener, one wand screener, and provision for an optional support person or Working Lead. And I can't imagine one station being enough. But I'm not claiming to be an expert.

 

[Disney Irish]

I realized that after I made a few of those elevations. Literally all they need to do is pave a sidewalk from the harbor sidewalk toward the beginning of the ramp as it ascends to the east. allow no entry onto any sidewalks dedicated to exit, and feed those who are entering the ramp into a security checkpoint.

Even easier, just direct the sidewalk traffic all the way into the security checkpoint using a fence.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Basically the easiest thing they can do is to have one side (even both sides) along the ramp at ground level allowing accessing into the security area from Harbor. This allows for Harbor access to the bridge and allows the security screening to stay on the Machester side.

View attachment 319626

And then obviously opening the access from each of the Harbor businesses backends into the pathway leading up to the security area.

That certainly has some merit. It's simple. All they need to do is make some changes around the support building. Again, it depends on the occupancy calculation for the bridge and approach. We'll see what Disney and the City come up with in the coming months.

 

[Disney Irish]

That certainly has some merit. It's simple. All they need to do is make some changes around the support building. Again, it depends on the occupancy calculation for the bridge and approach. We'll see what Disney and the City come up with in the coming months.

Its the easiest, quickest, and other than the adding some "pretty" aesthetics to the bridge itself, it alleviates all the Harbor businesses complaints.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Meanwhile, follow my new thread on possibilities for a new Resort Master Plan:

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/new-dl-resort-master-plan-possibilities.950531/

 

[nevol]

Even easier, just direct the sidewalk traffic all the way into the security checkpoint using a fence.

View attachment 319635

The purple circles are the security checkpoints though. That path would dump guests into the area where guests have already been cleared for entry, and would thus require a security checkpoint.

 

[Darkbeer1]

By the way guys, I have a crazy day with too much interaction with the crazies this morning, just 5 blocks from my house in regards to a No on L event. (Yes the one that made all the local TV news stations).

Had to sacifice myself to distract the hecklers. But it worked for a few minutes until they figured out the game I was playing. (Pay attention to me while the press could interview some of the speakers in realitive peace). But hopefully later tonight I can look at the ideas and maps.

But the last thing the City and Disney wants is a checkpoint on the east side of Harbor

They want less pedestrians and vehicles on Harbor in general. The city staff wants to move whatever they can to Manchester.

 

[Darkbeer1]

OK, guys, I glaced at everything, and my mind is spinning. It has been a crazy day, and just too tired to write anything that makes sense.

I will do my best to find some time in the next few days to do it justice.

Thanks in advance for understanding.

By the way, this is where I was this morning, the local park 5 blocks from home. Make sure and watch the videos.

https://darkbeer.smugmug.com/Maxwell-Park-10112018/

 

[Disney Irish]

The purple circles are the security checkpoints though. That path would dump guests into the area where guests have already been cleared for entry, and would thus require a security checkpoint.

Yes, it easy to add a single checkpoint here, as I identified in orange. Or if you want you can keep directing the pedestrians all the way into the closest security checkpoint, again using fencing.

 

[Darkbeer1]

First off, I would like to congratulate Brady MacDonald, who was let go by the LA Times for going out on his own www.bradymacdonald.com, and becoming a source for the Southern California News Group. Ironic, his wife, Nancy Luna, the Food Maven was recently let go by the SCNG. (I should disclose that Brady did attend my wedding).

Long article and worth the read.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/...luxury-hotel-will-affect-theme-park-visitors/

 

[Darkbeer1]

Ok, let's talk Security Checkpoints in general, and not just at Disney.

A lot of the work is done prior to the actual checkpoint, where cameras, persons and dogs are watching those coming up. How are they acting, are they moving items around and other things.

This is why a "back door" is impractical.

In specific, for the Eastern Gateway project, they want to have the folks screened as far away from the resort as possible.

For example, plans are to have checkpoints at the Toy Story Lot, and then screened passengers taken to a secure drop off area.

So for pedestrians, they want them come to the Manchester check point walking through the plaza towards the check point.

Adding entrance/exit points from some Hotels/Motels work with no problem.

But some of the ideas mentioned don't work.

Asa frequent visitor to the StubHub Center, many times when an event is not be held, I can talk security.

Just like Disneyland, the StubHub Center is a Federal designated secure facility. That means Federal assets are provided to help keep it safe, and comes with a set of rules. And that means they are watched over 24/7. I am a known person, but still have to go through security checks. Think of me like an employee/contractor, or a frequent flyer with the TSA Pre-check.

The city of Anaheim does get Federal Funds to help watch over not just Disneyland, but also Angel Stadium, Honda Center, the Anaheim Convention Center and the American Sports Facility housing the US Olympic Volleyball teams.

So, both parties will require the security features Disney is pushing for.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I hope they look at my idea for an exit-only ramp/stairs/elevator with Security post on the East side of Harbor. The Carousel Motel property looks to be about 75 feet wide. If they push the anchor point for the bridge back I think there is adequate footprint to manage this. I think this could be an additional incentive for the Harbor businesses.

I mentioned this back months ago, yes, one thing on the drawing board is an exit only point near the bridge on Harbor.

So yes, hopefully if the logistics can be worked out, it will be part of the new application.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Good idea. They could honestly have both an entrance and exit ramp on harbor heading east to connect to the rest of the bridge traffic to head back west, with one of the ramps (the on-ramp) having a security checkpoint.

This is against the goals of the city to removeas much pedestrian traffic from Harbor as possible and security concerns.

Won't happen.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Imagine being an exec in charge of this whole mess and not being fired for sheer incompetence

 

[Darkbeer1]

I'm not sure how you do all that without building a separate bridge specifically for non-Disney foot traffic with no access to the parks. The whole point is to have security checkpoint before the bridge. This is to keep as much of the security threat away from the esplanade.

In the original plans from both Disney and the City, no crossing Harbor by Foot from a crosswalk at Manchester on the North end, and a crosswalk at Disney Way on the South. The Medium would be built up with fencing in the middle for security purposes. The Traffic Light at The Park Vue Inn would be removed, and the driveway into the transportation Hub will also disappear since it wouldn't be needed. Same with the current Taxi Stand/dropoff. It also would be relocated to Manchester.

In fact. Long Term, another Pedestrian Bridge at Harbor and Disney Way is planned. Maybe that could be fast tracked as the General non-Disney foot traffic crossing.

 

[Disney Irish]

In the original plans from both Disney and the City, no crossing Harbor by Foot from a crosswalk at Manchester on the North end, and a crosswalk at Disney Way on the South. The Medium would be built up with fencing in the middle for security purposes. The Traffic Light at The Park Vue Inn would be removed, and the driveway into the transportation Hub will also disappear since it wouldn't be needed. Same with the current Taxi Stand/dropoff. It also would be relocated to Manchester.

In fact. Long Term, another Pedestrian Bridge at Harbor and Disney Way is planned. Maybe that could be fast tracked as the General non-Disney foot traffic crossing.

This is what I would expect. All this other stuff is just armchair Imagineering. Though some, like my suggestion of a path from Harbor sidewalks along side the ramp into the security area for screening, might be a viable alternative. However I will admit I haven't seen the security assessment report that is part of this project. So I can't say if some of these ideas would go against that security assessment.

Anyways, here's hoping in 3 weeks that things go positively and we'll get a chance to find out next year.

 

[nevol]

This is against the goals of the city to removeas much pedestrian traffic from Harbor as possible and security concerns.

Won't happen.

I beg to differ. This arguably would reduce traffic on harbor; keep the rest of the transportation hub as is. The south end of the block was dedicated to getting pedestrian foot traffic from harbor /the harbor businesses and even convention guests from the south over to the eastern gateway already. Having both that sidewalk feeding the south and another one in the center of the block to serve hotel guests on that block would cut the flow of traffic heading south on the east side of harbor in half. All of those thousands of hotel and restaurant guests under the current plan will have to walk south on harbor toward the gateway. It would double access from harbor businesses to the gateway and the bridge to the east. They wouldn't need to allow pedestrian traffic to cross harbor or for a security checkpoint on the west side of (the actual) property where it is near the esplanade and the parks.

I think when Disney says they don't want traffic on harbor anymore, they are referring to their security perimeter on harbor and wanting to push it out further from their assets, and across the street. I don't think they literally mean no traffic on harbor whatsoever, as that would rule out the eastern gateway too, which is accessible from harbor. As long as the security checks are on the east side of the street and feed into the same bridge, it would be a win for everyone. Security checks on the west side of harbor feeding the east side of the esplanade are too close for disney's new security perimeter, and taking up valuable park real estate. Keeping any modifications to the bridge within the footprint of the bridge doesn't jeopardize either of these necessities.

If some secure access for harbor businesses is not to be considered, even onto this existing plan (certainly not advocating for a crosswalk or a security check near the esplanade) then Disney is expecting that this plan will go through without addressing any of the Harbor businesses concerns whatsoever.


Edit: @Darkbeer1 my notification brought me to your reply and I haven't seen the rest of your new comments above. Getting caught up now!

 

[TP2000]

Imagine being an exec in charge of this whole mess and not being fired for sheer incompetence

....Mr. Colglazier, please phone your office!...

 

[nevol]

Hearing and appreciating the desire to have a screening area large enough/long enough to be able to monitor guests' behavior before they get to the checkpoint. That property is probably 600 feet long though; Would a single security checkpoint serving select harbor hotel guests with a 600 foot approach for such screening not be adequate? I honestly am opening this question up because I think it is; it beats what they have on most of the property. I don't think the grand californian guests have such a lengthy approach for their park access. Heck, their east esplanade harbor checkpoints now barely have that length of an approach, they're just more crowded.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I beg to differ. This arguably would reduce traffic on harbor; keep the rest of the transportation hub as is. The south end of the block was dedicated to getting pedestrian foot traffic from harbor /the harbor businesses and even convention guests from the south over to the eastern gateway already. Having both that sidewalk feeding the south and another one in the center of the block to serve hotel guests on that block would cut the flow of traffic heading south on the east side of harbor in half. All of those thousands of hotel and restaurant guests under the current plan will have to walk south on harbor toward the gateway. It would double access from harbor businesses to the gateway and the bridge to the east. They wouldn't need to allow pedestrian traffic to cross harbor or for a security checkpoint on the west side of (the actual) property where it is near the esplanade and the parks.

I think when Disney says they don't want traffic on harbor anymore, they are referring to their security perimeter on harbor and wanting to push it out further from their assets, and across the street. I don't think they literally mean no traffic on harbor whatsoever, as that would rule out the eastern gateway too, which is accessible from harbor. As long as the security checks are on the east side of the street and feed into the same bridge, it would be a win for everyone. Security checks on the west side of harbor feeding the east side of the esplanade are too close for disney's new security perimeter, and taking up valuable park real estate. Keeping any modifications to the bridge within the footprint of the bridge doesn't jeopardize either of these necessities.

Once again, The CITY of Anaheim has goals, along with the OCTA (the main transportation agency in charge of road and freeways in the area, along with the Bus System as a secondary function.) These include reducing Pedestrian Traffic on Harbor for safety reasons.

The goal is to move them off Harbor to alternative options. So that is a combination of things.

When the original Eastern Gateway plans were drawn up, Disney sat down with city staff, and OCTA to discuss how Disney should draw up their plans to match up with the public streets and other related items. Prior to officially submitting them.

It is the city really trying to clean up the traffic, not Disney.