Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
No. No it's not. But UOR is a world class vacation resort that has shown that it should not be underestimated.
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Fourth Disneyland Hotel Officially Cancelled
- Thread starter Stevek
- Start date
D
Deleted member 107043
It's such an odd feeling to be a life-long DL fan and have so much apathy about what's going on at DLR. As someone who has no love for Universal I might have scoffed at your comment if I'd read it a few years ago. Now, in the wake of the Eastern Gateway and 4th hotel debacles, I'm inclined to agree with you. If it weren't for SW GE on the horizon there'd be zero incentive for me to choose a DLR vacation next year. Even with all that fabulousness coming to Southern California making a special trip to Anaheim from the Bay Area is hardly a done deal considering an identical SWGE will come online a few months later at WDW.
Disney is doing nothing to move the needle in Anaheim. In short I'm bored.
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RollerCoaster
Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of indoor waterparks. I'm very familiar with Great Wolf and Kalahari. The poster did not specify indoor and why should I assume they meant indoor when Disney has never built an indoor waterpark?
It's interesting to note that both of the large regional theme park operators (Six Flags and Cedar Fair) each have one indoor waterpark, which in both cases after built they've invested almost no further capital in, nor made any plans to build anymore.
Indoor waterparks have a lot of limitations. They're largely built for and access is limited to guests staying at the adjoining hotels.
Have you been to one? I'm doubting you have. Humid 80-degree indoor climates with the burning smell of chlorine doesn't exactly replicate the outdoor waterpark experience. It works when the weather is freezing and all outdoor activities are limited. However, in Southern California where you can still enjoy the outdoors in the cooler months, the selling factor of a indoor waterpark is just not as strong.
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A.D.D. Boy
Member
Why not? You live in California...beautiful weather, brag about things to do, just stay at the Hyatt Regency Orange Grove 1 mile away and walk getting steps in like my family does for $150/nt.
A.D.D. Boy
Member
If you think $500/nt more is worth it, then more power to ya. Want cake, want to eat it too. #HyattRegency #HiltonAnaheim #CourtyardMarriottbythefrontgates
I’ve been to the Great Wolf Lodge indoor waterpark in Garden Grove and it’s a great experience. I live in Southern California and have a private pool at home. And NO, you can’t enjoy the outdoor pool in the Fall and Winter months in Southern California unless the pool is heated or you’ll get hypothermia. The evenings are already 60 degrees and that’s the pool temperature in the mid-afternoon despite warming up to 80 degrees outside. Then the evening gets dark at 6pm and the temperatures already are quickly descending to 70 degrees.
Unless you want a seasonal water park that closes in September and opens in May, indoor parks are the best compromise. Southern California is not Orlando where the outdoor temperatures remain hot and humid for most of the year. Evening temperatures drop quite dramatically in Fall and Winter.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
http://www.anaheimblog.net/2018/10/...with-deluxe-hotel-project-in-orlando-florida/
>>
Two weeks ago, the Disneyland Resort announced it was cancelling its planned 4-Diamond hotel – a 700-room, $700 million luxury hotel at the west end of Downtown Disney that would have opened in 2021. The decision came in the wake of the city’s claim a minor siting adjustment nullified the TOT rebate agreement upon which the project was premised.
Last week, Disney Parks and Resorts announced it would build a 900-bed hotel and vacation club villas project at Walt Disney World that will open its doors in 2022.
Critics of the TOT rebate agreement loudly and repeatedly claimed Disney would build the 4-Diamond hotel in Anaheim anyway, without the tax incentive agreement.
And they were wrong.
They forget Disney is a worldwide company that has choices where to invest its capital in order to get the best return for its shareholders. The governing city council majority led by Mayor Tom Tait and Mayor Pro Tem Jose F. Moreno have created an increasingly hostile political and business environment that is driving out investment. Just ask the Angels. But for now, let’s focus on Disney.
So Disney cancels a massive investment in the Anaheim Resort that would have created thousands of jobs and deposited hundreds of millions in tax revenue into city coffers. The City of Anaheim will now receive 100% of nothing. On the other hand, Disney continues to invest in Walt Disney World.
Critics who claim this announcement is evidence the TOT rebate incentive wasn’t necessary to build the 4th hotel are comparing apples to oranges. Construction costs in Florida are significantly lower than in California – upwards of 20% more expensive. And that doesn’t include land acquisition.
In Anaheim, Disney was and is obviously space constrained, whereas they face no space constraints in Walt Disney World. Furthermore, there is a building spree going in California – including Anaheim – which also increases costs since the strong demand bids up the expense of supply.
All these factors underscores the necessity of a tax incentive agreement in order to make the 4th hotel pencil out.
The bottom line is Disney has options. The usual suspects seem to believe otherwise, pointing out that Disney can’t physically move the Disneyland Resort. What they miss is Disney has options as it relates to their long-term investments. Companies understandably prefer investing in places with a stable business environment – and that’s not how you’d describe Anaheim in the Tait-Moreno era.
In 2016, the City of Anaheim entered into a contractual agreement with Disney regarding its fourth Resort hotel. Within months, the political winds shifted and a new governing majority worked to undermine and undo that agreement. What company would want to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in such an unpredictable environment?
Also last week, the Angels chose to opt out of their stadium lease with the city. The Angels, too, have been mau-maued by the mayor and his followers and prefer to take their chances on finding somewhere to play the 2020 season rather than pursue fruitless negotiations with a hostile council majority. Given their own experience with the city, and after watching the new council majority do everything it could to renege on and undermine a contractual agreement, who can blame the Angels for this course of action when they can’t be confident the city leadership will act in good faith.
Perhaps Anaheim voters should ask themselves what a new Mayor and City Council can do to change the tone and promote continued investment, resulting in jobs and revenue for the city of Anaheim. It would appear the Tait-Moreno majority’s approach of constantly assailing and attacking the city’s largest employer and taxpayer is resulting in less investment and job creation for Anaheim. This hostile attitude has already cost the city $100 million risk-free tax revenue over the next 20 years – a windfall that would increase by orders of magnitude in succeeding decades. Anaheim voters might consider if they want their city council to continue cutting off its nose to spite Disney.<<
>>
Two weeks ago, the Disneyland Resort announced it was cancelling its planned 4-Diamond hotel – a 700-room, $700 million luxury hotel at the west end of Downtown Disney that would have opened in 2021. The decision came in the wake of the city’s claim a minor siting adjustment nullified the TOT rebate agreement upon which the project was premised.
Last week, Disney Parks and Resorts announced it would build a 900-bed hotel and vacation club villas project at Walt Disney World that will open its doors in 2022.
Critics of the TOT rebate agreement loudly and repeatedly claimed Disney would build the 4-Diamond hotel in Anaheim anyway, without the tax incentive agreement.
And they were wrong.
They forget Disney is a worldwide company that has choices where to invest its capital in order to get the best return for its shareholders. The governing city council majority led by Mayor Tom Tait and Mayor Pro Tem Jose F. Moreno have created an increasingly hostile political and business environment that is driving out investment. Just ask the Angels. But for now, let’s focus on Disney.
So Disney cancels a massive investment in the Anaheim Resort that would have created thousands of jobs and deposited hundreds of millions in tax revenue into city coffers. The City of Anaheim will now receive 100% of nothing. On the other hand, Disney continues to invest in Walt Disney World.
Critics who claim this announcement is evidence the TOT rebate incentive wasn’t necessary to build the 4th hotel are comparing apples to oranges. Construction costs in Florida are significantly lower than in California – upwards of 20% more expensive. And that doesn’t include land acquisition.
In Anaheim, Disney was and is obviously space constrained, whereas they face no space constraints in Walt Disney World. Furthermore, there is a building spree going in California – including Anaheim – which also increases costs since the strong demand bids up the expense of supply.
All these factors underscores the necessity of a tax incentive agreement in order to make the 4th hotel pencil out.
The bottom line is Disney has options. The usual suspects seem to believe otherwise, pointing out that Disney can’t physically move the Disneyland Resort. What they miss is Disney has options as it relates to their long-term investments. Companies understandably prefer investing in places with a stable business environment – and that’s not how you’d describe Anaheim in the Tait-Moreno era.
In 2016, the City of Anaheim entered into a contractual agreement with Disney regarding its fourth Resort hotel. Within months, the political winds shifted and a new governing majority worked to undermine and undo that agreement. What company would want to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in such an unpredictable environment?
Also last week, the Angels chose to opt out of their stadium lease with the city. The Angels, too, have been mau-maued by the mayor and his followers and prefer to take their chances on finding somewhere to play the 2020 season rather than pursue fruitless negotiations with a hostile council majority. Given their own experience with the city, and after watching the new council majority do everything it could to renege on and undermine a contractual agreement, who can blame the Angels for this course of action when they can’t be confident the city leadership will act in good faith.
Perhaps Anaheim voters should ask themselves what a new Mayor and City Council can do to change the tone and promote continued investment, resulting in jobs and revenue for the city of Anaheim. It would appear the Tait-Moreno majority’s approach of constantly assailing and attacking the city’s largest employer and taxpayer is resulting in less investment and job creation for Anaheim. This hostile attitude has already cost the city $100 million risk-free tax revenue over the next 20 years – a windfall that would increase by orders of magnitude in succeeding decades. Anaheim voters might consider if they want their city council to continue cutting off its nose to spite Disney.<<
D
Deleted member 107043
Because staying at a non-descript Hyatt Regency in the middle of Orange County is absolutely the last thing I want to do on a Disney vacation. YMMV.
A.D.D. Boy
Member
Which I totally get. My intention was not to attack at all. It’s just that every trip to DL, I KNOW I’m in a park surrounded by a suburban town called Anaheim. The bubble just isn’t there as compared to WDW (and if it is it’s a tight squeeze of a bubble). On-site is all I do at WDW with the different themed hotels. The ungodly humidity and a rain shower at any given moment are the only constant reminders of being in the armpit that is Orlando. When you can fit DL/DCA as a whole in the parking lot of WDW’s Magic Kingdom, the choices for expansion and innovative hotels leaves Disney hostage to the City of Anaheim.
D
Deleted member 107043
Thanks for proving my point that WDW, at least for the full Disney immersion it gives vacationers, is a better experience than Anaheim. Again YMMV.
Old Mouseketeer
Well-Known Member
Well, that's not political at all.
Ismael Flores
Well-Known Member
I know some people didn't care for the fourth hotel design but I was really looking forward to it. I think the design was going to make that area of the park look amazing. Los Angeles area doesn't have enough buildings that go out of the norm and I think this design would have.
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ObscurityPoint
Well-Known Member
Being from the midwest and a passholder at Cedar Point, it’s funny because I’ve asked that question for years. Castaway Bay hasn’t been altered once since its opening in the early 2000s. The only change it has had is the replacement of TGI Friday’s with a different chain. It’s crazy because the park doesn’t even advertise or acknowledge its indoor water park anymore, and I have no idea why. It’s just sort of there. My guess is because the Cedar Fair chain is trying to make all their parks “equal” now, therefore it makes marketing and investments much easier, but it still puzzles me why they would disregard such a decent indoor water park.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Echoes Of Anaheim In Amazon's Escape From New York - Anaheim Blog
Last week, Amazon walked away from a nearly $3 billion package in state and local tax incentives to build a sought after HQ2 in New York City – in the Queens neighborhood of Long Island City. The agreement, announced last Fall, would have brought 25,000 good paying jobs to the area and generated...
www.anaheimblog.net
Last summer, when Disney need approval of very minor site adjustment to its planned luxury hotel project at Downtown Disney, the Tait-Moreno majority used it as an opportunity to kill the accompanying TOT rebate agreement.
Disney responded by cancelling the $700 million, 700-room project – which would have created 5,050 temporary jobs, 3,434 permanent jobs and $750 million in tax revenue for the city over 40 years. The decision confounded critics who claimed Disney would “build the hotel anyway” – forgetting that companies have choices where to invest their capital – and friendly business environments tend to win out.
Last November, Moreno and UNITE-HERE Local 11 successfully pushed Measure L – which ultimately imposes a highest-in-the-nation minimum wage hike on 4-Diamond hotel projects that have tax incentive agreements with the city. Like the Amazon deal, those tax incentives do not kick in until the hotels are open for business, and would ultimately generate enormous tax revenues for the city.
As a result, two planned 4-Diamond hotel projects in the Resort will almost certainly never be built – costing Anaheim thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions in future tax revenues.
In the case of Measure L, the Resort unions and Moreno were essentially using the ballot box to unilaterally re-negotiate city agreements – against the will of the other parties to those contracts. That’s how banana republics operate, and doesn’t inspire confidence in those contemplating a major economic development projects in the city.
That perception is further compounded when a sitting Anaheim City Councilman is arrested in an illegal action to disrupt the city’s biggest trade show as part of a ham-handed union ploy to leverage a major Resort business.
It’s a consistent theme: among the progressive-Left, ideological rigidity and hostility to business override common sense policies that foster job creation and growing tax revenues to fund public services. The greatest irony is support for such policies is often greatest among minorities and workers – the same people whom progressives like AOC and Moreno profess to champion. Killing the Amazon deal or 4-Diamond hotels in the Resort enables them to carve a notch in their ideological belts, but its working people who are left holding the bag – and empty bag of lost jobs.<<
D
Deleted member 107043
Rich T
Well-Known Member
But there really are some "evil corporations"... or, rather, corporations in the hands of people motivated by greed. There are corporations that treat their employees like garbage, corporations who overcharge for life-saving drugs to the point where it can't really be considered anything but evil, and corporations who destroy local businesses by the thousands and simply don't care. All those things can be remedied with better human beings at the helm.
(EDIT)
There are also corporations who abandon their life-long older fans in favor of focusing entirely on newly aquired IPs.... but that's not actually evil... just super annoying.
Rich T
Well-Known Member
When it comes to Amazon, I am such a hypocrite. There's so much about the company I don't like, but... it's so convenient...and often the only place I can get rare amiibos!!!