Food and Wine Nickel and Diming

[jakeman]

C'mon, let's ... this is fun and I haven't even poured the first glass of Conundrum yet!

At first I thought you were speaking of the poster that likes to follow you around as much as jt, then I realized you were speaking of the excellent wine. Good taste, sir!

And I don't disagree that waits have increased the past few years at all. I'm just saying that cutting back the number of the tastings and raising the costs of the samples at the booths have led to that largely ... and I'm sure with the economy tanking and Disney being very pricey many folks are looking for whatever they can get.

While I agree, I also remember the waits increase to an intolerable point, for me, prior to a reduction in offerings.

One thing that we haven't mentioned that has been an improvement is that the mark up on the wine has come down considerably in the past few years.

I remember seeing a $30 bottle of Kendall-Jackson there my first year.

No. I see how TDO sees this as 'logical' ... they can make a ----load of money by charging $8 for something that's been free for 15-plus years.

I also see how it once again is Disney raising the cost of a visit, while cutting quality.

I just see it different. I see them regulating something that was out of hand before they started to reduce offerings.

It's certainly OK for loyal visitors and guests (and again I think you'd agree that by having an AP for 28 years and staying hundreds of nights in WDW resorts -- we'll leave out the other resorts and Disney purchases -- that I am a whale by Disney standards) to complain, including on a fan forum, when they make very guest unfriendly moves like this.

You're right. I'm not under any obligation to purchase anything. I gave up my DDE card in 2008 (after having one from 1995 when they were for Florida residents only and two cards came for $25 total!) when I realized I wasn't comfortable enough with Disney's gouging to pay to renew. And I have no intention of paying $8 for these either unless I hear they have tripled of quadrupled the size of the tastings.

To each his own. Eight dollars isn't that much to me. The memory is worth the money.

No. But you seem to always want to give da man da benefit of da doubt.

If by "da man" you mean a company that has no real purpose other than to make money? I see what they are doing. I just don't see it as the detriment that you do.

This isn't a drug company or a car company that produces a product that is even remotely arguable as needed. It's an entertainment conglomerate that's sole purpose is to take your money. I'm okay with that and see it for what it is. That's why I don't get worked up about these sorts of things and can see the other side.

So ... how much would you pay for an unlimited FP? (it's coming!)

I don't know. Probably not much since the wife and I are pretty adept at working the FP system now. If that is an option they provide then we will evaluate it when the time comes.

Now, why would you want to do that? ... Oh yeah, I'm right on that point too!

I agree with some of what you say, not all and not the majority, but you have to give me credit that I'm not one sided like some of your other detractors!

 

[jakeman]

I'm not big on beer, but I did enjoy the Sam Adams free tastings at AA ... wonder if they'll start charging for those too.

As to coffee, Disney used to have wonderful coffee until 1994 when Nestle took over sponsorship of The Land and got the coffee deal property-wide. Even though they're gone, their alleged 'coffee' remains.

The McCafe at Crossroads McD's is now a regular stop for me. I'd bet the new one at the BB/All Stars McD's is likely more pricey.

They do have Starbucks in the DD Hilton, although not a unit ... they just sell it in their marketplace.

And next month I'll get to try the new Starbucks at Disney Village at DLP. Good coffee, but not happy it took the place of the great western shop that was there before.

Oh, the only good coffee I've had at WDW in the past five years was the press pots at Jiko and Boma. Good stuff.

They also have a Starbucks setup similar to the Hilton at the Swan and Dolphin.

Kona is a good press pot as well.

 

[CBOMB]

More profit and greater guest satisfaction....sounds good to me. When you have a winning formula it is a good idea to stick with it.

The only thing we know for sure is it will be more profitable. Guest satisfaction seems to be what our main discussion is about at this time. As far as I'm concern that doesn't seem to be a lock by our small opinion poll here so far.

Fine, you present a way to keep them free but get me a 15 minute wait time with no other effort on my part.By that logic all drinks and food should be free in the park. You paid admission right? Food is just part of the experience.

Wine tasting Fast Pass.:shrug:

I see '74 has already listed different ways this event could be managed, and keep it free, if they really wanted to. WDW deals with crowds every day of the year. As I've stated before, it's just easier to raise prices. That's what they do best. Perfect example, I like to have a couple of beers in the evening while I sit on the balcony at WL overlooking Bay Lake. I would pick up a 6 pack at the merchantile, and stick it in the fridge for later that night.

It was about $14 before taxes. Now certainly that is a hugh profit margin that any convience store in America would be proud of. Flash forward to my visit in January of this year. I go down to the merchantile to pick up a 6 pack, and they don't have any. I ask the folks at the counter, and they tell me they only sell single beers now at $5.25 a piece. That's $31.50 per 6 pack before taxes. I guess Disney wanted to shorten the lines at the check-out for me.

I was told later on by some CM's that management felt it was cutting into their beer sales at the bar. Their solution was the tried-and-true method of raising prices. That's always the Disney solution. It's all about money with no concern about guest experiences anymore. Things that seem to work for so long have to be different now. The one defining thing that links all of these things together is a major price increase.

If I want a beer in my room now, I just buy it off property, and bring it back to my room. Something I had never considered doing before.

 

[Phonedave]

They also have a Starbucks setup similar to the Hilton at the Swan and Dolphin.

Kona is a good press pot as well.

A press pot does not equal good coffee. Good coffee in a press pot equals good coffee.

It's GIGO all over again.

"Dispensed" coffee at WDW is concentrated coffee syrup that is mixed with hot water at the point of extraction.

I could put garbage in a press pot and still get garbage coffee. If WDW would just use some decent coffee GROUNDS in the coffee it would be OK. But BIB syrup is cheaper, easier to store, easier to load, and easier to clean. Its just a lot harder to drink.

-dave

 

[jakeman]

The only thing we know for sure is it will be more profitable. Guest satisfaction seems to be what our main discussion is about at this time. As far as I'm concern that doesn't seem to be a lock by our small opinion poll here so far.

I agree. This could be completely unpopular. I know I will appreciate it.

Wine tasting Fast Pass.:shrug:

That are gone before I arrive? Or that I have to wait in line for in hopes that I get in the tasting that interest me? No, thanks.

I see '74 has already listed different ways this event could be managed, and keep it free, if they really wanted to. WDW deals with crowds every day of the year. As I've stated before, it's just easier to raise prices. That's what they do best. Perfect example, I like to have a couple of beers in the evening while I sit on the balcony at WL overlooking Bay Lake. I would pick up a 6 pack at the merchantile, and stick it in the fridge for later that night.

It was about $14 before taxes. Now certainly that is a hugh profit margin that any convience store in America would be proud of. Flash forward to my visit in January of this year. I go down to the merchantile to pick up a 6 pack, and they don't have any. I ask the folks at the counter, and they tell me they only sell single beers now at $5.25 a piece. That's $31.50 per 6 pack before taxes. I guess Disney wanted to shorten the lines at the check-out for me.

I was told later on by some CM's that management felt it was cutting into their beer sales at the bar. Their solution was the tried-and-true method of raising prices. That's always the Disney solution. It's all about money with no concern about guest experiences anymore. Things that seem to work for so long have to be different now. The one defining thing that links all of these things together is a major price increase.

If I want a beer in my room now, I just buy it off property, and bring it back to my room. Something I had never considered doing before.

The bottom line is nothing that 74 suggest is grounded in any sort of facts that we are aware of.

We don't know how much they cost Disney nor do we know how much they cost the vendor.

Unless we have those, speculation is just that. 74's and my conclusions differ, because he, and you it seems, are willing to make more assumption than me. That's fine.

I also find it interesting that we take CMs word when anything negative about management is posted, but require press releases for good news.

We'll know after this year whether it was a successful venture or not.

I'll also be dure to dig this thread up if I don't feel that they were worth the $8.

 

[janoimagine]

You are suggesting that Disney is doing this to control crowds.

That's your opinion.

My opinion is they are doing this to make more money and lower the value of the Food and Wine Fest as they have been doing annually for years now.

I agree the value has been on a downturn for a while, I laughed when we were at Japan last year and what they had on the menu was 'California Rolls' the wines are decent I will give them that, but the Food is nothing more than America's stereotyping of the represented nations.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Since this thread already has its share of complaining about certain posting styles (started by yours truly, admittedly)...I have to extend props to jakeman, for a series of informed posts that clearly take a side, but also maintain an open mind, without insulting anybody who disagrees.

I tend to share 74's suspicion toward seemingly arbitrary price hikes...but I don't see issues like this as multiple-choice quizzes, with one Right and 3 Wrong answers, and it's nice to see the same approach from somebody who also seems to have a clue what he's talking about.

 

[CBOMB]

The bottom line is nothing that 74 suggest is grounded in any sort of facts that we are aware of.

We don't know how much they cost Disney nor do we know how much they cost the vendor.

Unless we have those, speculation is just that. 74's and my conclusions differ, because he, and you it seems, are willing to make more assumption than me. That's fine.

I also find it interesting that we take CMs word when anything negative about management is posted, but require press releases for good news.

We'll know after this year whether it was a successful venture or not.

I'll also be dure to dig this thread up if I don't feel that they were worth the $8.

I'm only dealing in facts Jake, really that's all. It has been established that in the past there were many more free wine tastings. Over the years the size of the pour became smaller, and the number of free tastings became fewer. Now that number has dwindled to zero. Those would seem to be the facts.

Now it's very true we can only speculate on why WDW is going to charge $8 for something that just one year ago was free. From past practices my speculation is it's purly to increase their profits. I also believe that they believe they can get away with any price increase. I further believe the guest experience in no way figured into this decision. I'm sure it will certainly make the lines shorter. Whether or not it improves the event will unfold later.

I just find it hard to find a positive in a price increase from free to $8. That's all I'm saying.

 

[bugsbunny]

As someone who has been going to the F&W show for about 10 years now, I can say that the prices seem to go up leaps and bounds, the portions get smaller, the menu is/has become predictable for most booths, and its losing its charm. I think the whole thing jumped the shark once they stuck in Oklahoma as a "country". :ROFLOL:

And someone mentioned about California Roll in Japan. I thought the same thing! First off, California roll is a type of sushi that his basically "Americanized" to seem more appealing to our boring palettes. "Real" sushi is a hunk of fish laid on some rice with a tiny band of seaweed covering it over, not the COOKED IMITATION CRAB MEAT rolled in to a wheel like California Roll is done.

 

[janoimagine]

As someone who has been going to the F&W show for about 10 years now, I can say that the prices seem to go up leaps and bounds, the portions get smaller, the menu is/has become predictable for most booths, and its losing its charm. I think the whole thing jumped the shark once they stuck in Oklahoma as a "country". :ROFLOL:

And someone mentioned about California Roll in Japan. I thought the same thing! First off, California roll is a type of sushi that his basically "Americanized" to seem more appealing to our boring palettes. "Real" sushi is a hunk of fish laid on some rice with a tiny band of seaweed covering it over, not the COOKED IMITATION CRAB MEAT rolled in to a wheel like California Roll is done.

That would have been me on the California Roll. I agree, I was expecting some yellowtail with ponzu, then I saw the California Roll and laughed. Unless you have the DDP and can use the snack option on your plan, don't waste your time, I was throughly disappointed last year.

 

[Testtrack321]

Let the TDO apologists rejoice!

You've never been to the Taste of Chicago, eh? TDO MUST RUN CHICAGO TOO! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

 

[jakeman]

I'm only dealing in facts Jake, really that's all. It has been established that in the past there were many more free wine tastings. Over the years the size of the pour became smaller, and the number of free tastings became fewer. Now that number has dwindled to zero. Those would seem to be the facts.

Now it's very true we can only speculate on why WDW is going to charge $8 for something that just one year ago was free. From past practices my speculation is it's purly to increase their profits. I also believe that they believe they can get away with any price increase. I further believe the guest experience in no way figured into this decision. I'm sure it will certainly make the lines shorter. Whether or not it improves the event will unfold later.

I just find it hard to find a positive in a price increase from free to $8. That's all I'm saying.

I understand what are you saying. However, I am saying that before the number of tastings were reduced the waits were a problem, at least for me. I only go down to the F&W festival for a few days each year and don't feel that I have the time to wait 45-90 minutes for a wine tastings. They were something that I was used to doing at the spur of the moment or if there was a specific winery I wanted to see.

If the $8 price tag reduces wait times to a level that is acceptable to me, then it is a positive, for me, and has increase my satisfaction as a guest.

If it does not reduce the wait time, or the quality of the tasting is diminish from what I have experienced in the past, then I'm out $8 and I won't do them or recommend them to anyone else.

I just see these type of decisions in a different light that's all. I don't begrudge Disney for looking for ways to increase their profit, like other seem to.

 

[Phonedave]

As someone who has been going to the F&W show for about 10 years now, I can say that the prices seem to go up leaps and bounds, the portions get smaller, the menu is/has become predictable for most booths, and its losing its charm. I think the whole thing jumped the shark once they stuck in Oklahoma as a "country". :ROFLOL:

And someone mentioned about California Roll in Japan. I thought the same thing! First off, California roll is a type of sushi that his basically "Americanized" to seem more appealing to our boring palettes. "Real" sushi is a hunk of fish laid on some rice with a tiny band of seaweed covering it over, not the COOKED IMITATION CRAB MEAT rolled in to a wheel like California Roll is done.

REAL sushi is rice. Thats what the sushi refers to. You can put whatever you like on it. Heck I have had samgak kimbap "Korean triangle sushi" that had a freaking chicken nugget with catsup in it once.



However........

I am in the same camp as you. California rolls are not indicitive of something from Japan. They could have made a lot of other choices, even ones that appeal to American tastes. Egg come to mind as somthing that can hold up to the handling and storage. Natto does as well, but not many people like that (I would). Cucumber, while not Japanese, would have been halfway decent choice as well.

-dave

 

[WDW1974]

I understand what are you saying. However, I am saying that before the number of tastings were reduced the waits were a problem, at least for me. I only go down to the F&W festival for a few days each year and don't feel that I have the time to wait 45-90 minutes for a wine tastings. They were something that I was used to doing at the spur of the moment or if there was a specific winery I wanted to see.

If the $8 price tag reduces wait times to a level that is acceptable to me, then it is a positive, for me, and has increase my satisfaction as a guest.

And if they raised the price ... well, raise isn't exactly the correct term since they've been FREE ... let's say if they were to institute a $25 fee for tastings, I'd bet you'd be able to get into anyone you want with no wait.

If it does not reduce the wait time, or the quality of the tasting is diminish from what I have experienced in the past, then I'm out $8 and I won't do them or recommend them to anyone else.

Don't you think by any rational thought that charging a fee for something that's always been free is DIMINISHING the quality for most people?

And do you really think Disney is at least gonna do something to make it worth the $8 ... by like tripling the size of the 'sample'?

I just see these type of decisions in a different light that's all. I don't begrudge Disney for looking for ways to increase their profit, like other seem to.

That's obvious. And I certainly don't begrudge Disney increasing profits, I am a stockholder as well. I DO, however, begrudge Disney nickel and diming guests at every turn

Anyone who has gone to Food and Wine would tell you that prices increase annually while portion size and, often, quality decrease.

I don't like seeing WDW WalMarted.

 

[jakeman]

And if they raised the price ... well, raise isn't exactly the correct term since they've been FREE ... let's say if they were to institute a $25 fee for tastings, I'd bet you'd be able to get into anyone you want with no wait.

What's your point? Everyone know that there is a certain price that a market can bear. Perhaps $8 is too high for the general public. It's not for me and given that Disney is a luxury product I'm not really concerned how it affects others. I'm concerned about my vacation and my good time when I go to WDW.

Again, I'm not going to attribute some sort of quasi-moralistic framework of price fairness to an entertainment company.

Don't you think by any rational thought that charging a fee for something that's always been free is DIMINISHING the quality for most people?

I don't have the answer for that. I can only speak for myself, not the general public. Perhaps it diminishes the quality for people who are unwilling or unable to pay, but that are those individual guest issues, not mine.

And do you really think Disney is at least gonna do something to make it worth the $8 ... by like tripling the size of the 'sample'?

I don't know. Again I'm not privy to that information. Charging $8 is worth a reduced wait time and the same product I was getting.

That's obvious. And I certainly don't begrudge Disney increasing profits, I am a stockholder as well. I DO, however, begrudge Disney nickel and diming guests at every turn

That is your qualm. I don't see this to the extreme that you do. It's $8, pay it or not.

Anyone who has gone to Food and Wine would tell you that prices increase annually while portion size and, often, quality decrease.

Perhaps that has been your experience. While I won't debate that prices have increased, I disagree that quality and sample size has diminished. Some years are better than others, but overall it is a consistent experience.

Just because you have experienced what, in your opinion, is a decrease in quality, doesn't give you the right to extrapolate that opinion on "anyone who has gone".

I don't like seeing WDW WalMarted.

So they are providing same goods as other retailers at a discounted price? To compare WDW to WalMart doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of your argument. Or are you just falling back on a buzzword in hopes that will over shadow the rest of the arguement.

 

[GMan123]

Not sure if anyone else posted this yet (I didn't get time to read all the posts) but man, $8 is really not too bad when you are involved in a 45-minute presentation on what you are eating. Look at the NYC Food and Wine Festival or Miami F&W Festival. You can expect to pay from $25-$110 for their presentations. Granted they are an hour and most of the time it is a celebrity chef but it is the same food!

 

[Pete C]

How much wine comes in one tasting? Are they freaking NUTS?!? Every wine tasting I have been to is completely free after admission, and you get a taste of each wine. $8 is what you pay for a GLASS of wine at the Italy pavilion. Stupid event. Just go to The Wine Room in Winter Park and pay much less and they have hundreds of wines on tap every day...and that's in expensive Winter Park on Park Ave!! Why bother going to Epcot for something you can do anywhere? The Grape? Tastings? Eola Wine Company? A wine festival is not supposed to be a pay-per-drink affair. It is getting harder by the day to defend Disney's actions.

 

[prbiker15]

Not sure if anyone else posted this yet (I didn't get time to read all the posts) but man, $8 is really not too bad when you are involved in a 45-minute presentation on what you are eating. Look at the NYC Food and Wine Festival or Miami F&W Festival. You can expect to pay from $25-$110 for their presentations. Granted they are an hour and most of the time it is a celebrity chef but it is the same food!

Agreed.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The great thing about the internet is it allows all sorts to express their worthless opinion as fact. I suppose this gives those whos real lives lack meaning some sort of boost.

But the up shot seems to be, some will never criticise the mouse, some will rarely praise it, some are obviously happy to brag about their wealth or have little problem with paying over the odds for food, while others begrudge every penny living on a budget, but then what are poor people doing trying to use a premium product, its for us rich dontcha know.

Either way, your all just wonderful. No I mean that most sincerely. The only thing bigger than a New Yorkers gob is some egos around here.
You are boring me.

 

[CBOMB]

The great thing about the internet is it allows all sorts to express their worthless opinion as fact. I suppose this gives those whos real lives lack meaning some sort of boost.

But the up shot seems to be, some will never criticise the mouse, some will rarely praise it, some are obviously happy to brag about their wealth or have little problem with paying over the odds for food, while others begrudge every penny living on a budget, but then what are poor people doing trying to use a premium product, its for us rich dontcha know.

Either way, your all just wonderful. No I mean that most sincerely. The only thing bigger than a New Yorkers gob is some egos around here.
You are boring me.

I can well understand your anguish at being bored. After three straight hours of reading of monorail expansions, fifth gates, and the escalating price of a bottle of coke I find myself becoming bored also.

I have found the perfect solution to put ones life back into perspective once again. Simply pack up the Mrs., and spend an evening at the ballet or perhaps the opera. It does wonders for the soul, and ultimately invigorates you to the point of looking forward to your next discussion of, which is better, Doyle Whips or Strawberry Swirls.

You might want to discuss these options with Mrs Sak.