Fire Mountain

PhilharMagician

Well-Known Member
Maintenance fees will be divided up among the Water Parks, 15+ resorts, Theme Parks, golf courses, mini golf courses, DTD and probably more that I can't even think of. On the other hand all of these entities generate money to cover the resorts maintenance.

To tout Maintenance as the reason for this significant disparity is ludicrous. The revenue generated by a resort, a water park, DTD or whatever generates plenty for that locations maintenance , then profit is determined, and then that profit is diverted (in WDW’s case) to other places in far too great a disparity. Unless you really believe that there is not enough revenue at WDW to upkeep its components and therefore development dollars need to be diverted to upkeep. Tokyo’s profits are dedicated to expanding Tokyo and CA to expanding CA, but each and every time, WDW bears the lion’s share of the costs of expansion elsewhere (first Tokyo, then Paris, HK, and who knows where next).

Until competition surfaces in Orlando, or patrons go elsewhere within Disney’s parks, or WDW patrons get vocal (with their dollars as well as visits and comments) nothing will change.

My point is pretty simple: WDW would get more growth with the 1 billion investment than CA would, but as long as people continue with their “MK is good enough” mentality, then “MK is good enough” will stay the mantra of Disney management.

There is no reason WDW should have so many less AP’s than DL does. It should be far more! There’s no reason WDW should have 3% to 5% growth (sales and attendance) when DL is having 10%. The perceived (and actual) value of CA exceeds that of FL by far, so there’s a reason to get an AP each year. In FL every other or every third year is enough because nothing changes much.

If Florida management has any clue at all, they will start lobbying for real growth in FL. A fifth gate would guarantee 10 million additional visits (a 22% increase), but I forget, FL visitors are content to see attractions being referb’ed after years of delayed maintenance in lieu of a real maintenance plan and true reinvestment. If your maintenance philosophy is true, you must be very proud of Disney management for their decision to close 20K, the maintenance savings was astronomical.

WDW visitors unite!


Easy Carl! I am trying to state the maintenance is non-issue and should not be touted as an issue! Please note my edit above for easier understanding.

And you also talked about competition in Orlando? Refresh my memory. Orlando is the worlds leading tourist town. The Orlando area is home to Universal Studios Florida, Islands of Adventure, Sea World Orlando, Busch Gardens Africa, Cypress Gardens, Nasa Space Center, Wet N Wild and many other small amusement parks. I really can't see much competition there.


Where did you get that a Fifth Gate would guarantee 10 million guests? AK has been open for 10 years and is not quite there yet, but close.

I believe we are trying to get the same point accross.
 

mhead

Active Member
I was not comparing WDW to DL, I was comparing MK to DL. One park to one park.

I can agree on the castle and monorail references you made, but DL's subs are far better than MKs, as are it's Star Tours, Indiana Jones, Mr Toad, Matterhorn, Space Mountain, Pirates, HM, Fantasmic, the list goes on and on and on....

There are 11 Disney parks and the one setting the records is getting the least attention. It will eventually lose its spot unless it is invested in, perhaps as soon as Harry Potter moves into Orlando.

OK I can go with you on all of those but Star Tours - I mean it is EXACTLY the same, other than it being located in Tomorrowland at DL and MGM at WDW.

Oh and while the actual show of Fantasmic at DL is better - the seating stinks!
 

CarlHS

New Member
A fifth gate would guarantee 10 million additional visits (a 22% increase),

You said alot that was correct. There is no evidence, however, to support that.


Sure there is. Both AK and DCA were new parks and both now are nearing 10,000,000 in less then 10 years, as has every park Disney has ever opened.
 

CarlHS

New Member
Star Tours

Um. . . yeah, because Star Tours is elsewhere. Since, you know, there are seperate parks.


Yes, there 1 Star Tours in DL and 0 in MK. I.e. DL has 1 more E ticket.
 

CarlHS

New Member
Easy Carl! I am trying to state the maintenance is non-issue and should not be touted as an issue! Please note my edit above for easier understanding.

And you also talked about competition in Orlando? Refresh my memory. Orlando is the worlds leading tourist town. The Orlando area is home to Universal Studios Florida, Islands of Adventure, Sea World Orlando, Busch Gardens Africa, Cypress Gardens, Nasa Space Center, Wet N Wild and many other small amusement parks. I really can't see much competition there.


Where did you get that a Fifth Gate would guarantee 10 million guests? AK has been open for 10 years and is not quite there yet, but close.


--> I'm counting the near 10,000,000 visitors per year who come to WDW specifically to see AK, most of whom spend extra days at other parks on top of that. The opening of Everest caused a surge at not only AK, but all the parks, because who would come just for 1 day to AK only.

I believe the pre AK numbers to be around 32,000,000 so 46,000,000 now would be an increase of 14,000,000 from then. If you don't want to give AK and Everest credit for that then reduce my guarantee to 9,000,000 or 8,000,000. Still good enough numbers to be the #7 or #8 park in the country and financially successful.

DL is proof as well, the 50th investment paid off with record attendance which still is not waning, and the addition of the subs is generating 4+ hour lines and continuing the growth.

Disney can and will do what they want, but they do respond to consumer demand. California management sees this and is investing vigorously in their parks and it is consistently paying off. DL will surpass MK in attendance eventually, unless Florida management does something. DL is planning a 3rd gate as we speak (possibly water park or high end experience). There is no reason to believe that a 5th gate, New E ticket for MK (the only Disney park with negative E ticket growth on the planet), a reinvigorated MGM and/or an expanded AK won’t drive attendance up.

The whole reason for this thread is Fire Mountain, one of 2 new mountains and a new land planned for 2001 and 2002 in response to IoA at US. Eisner thought adding 2 E tickets was a good idea then and I think it still is. I just know it won’t happen until the consumers on the east coast start expecting more. The AP holders on the west coast have already figured it out and are getting more of what they want.

You can bet if potterland draws of 1% of Disney’s attendance (that’s off the top where all the profit is mind you) that Disney will respond in kind. I just think they should do it in advance this time rather than wait to see if there is an impact.
 

jmvd20

Well-Known Member
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ohioguy

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I tend to agree that Fire Mountain would be out of place in Fantasyland, and would overpower the Castle (although, admittingly, the castle in Anaheim has two mountains in close proximity).

If they must add a new e-ticket, then why not this one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fBUMRk-nkdA

originally conceived for DL Paris, but never built.

Wouldn't it fit perfectly next to Ariel's Grotto on the old 20K site?
 
I tend to agree that Fire Mountain would be out of place in Fantasyland, and would overpower the Castle (although, admittingly, the castle in Anaheim has two mountains in close proximity).

If they must add a new e-ticket, then why not this one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fBUMRk-nkdA

originally conceived for DL Paris, but never built.

Wouldn't it fit perfectly next to Ariel's Grotto on the old 20K site?
That actually was an enjoyable ride. It would fit quite nicely.

And for whoever mentioned the Villain/Bald mountain concept, it would definately have to be changed at this point. With the lake gone, they would have to reinvent the whole splash into the lagoon part.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
I tend to agree that Fire Mountain would be out of place in Fantasyland, and would overpower the Castle (although, admittingly, the castle in Anaheim has two mountains in close proximity).

If they must add a new e-ticket, then why not this one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fBUMRk-nkdA

originally conceived for DL Paris, but never built.

Wouldn't it fit perfectly next to Ariel's Grotto on the old 20K site?

I don't believe that would have been an E-ticket attraction. I could be wrong though...
 

Lee

Adventurer
And for whoever mentioned the Villain/Bald mountain concept, it would definately have to be changed at this point. With the lake gone, they would have to reinvent the whole splash into the lagoon part.
Nah...not really. As I recall, they weren't gonna use the old lagoon anyway. The "Villain Village" and the splashdown lagoon would occupy all that space.
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
Star Tours

Um. . . yeah, because Star Tours is elsewhere. Since, you know, there are seperate parks.


Yes, there 1 Star Tours in DL and 0 in MK. I.e. DL has 1 more E ticket.

But. . . that's kind've the point. Disney has no reason to shove as much as they can into the Magic Kingdom. They're catering to people spending a vacation at multiple different parks.

Part of my problem with Disneyland (much as I do still love it) is how freakin' crammed it is.
 

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