FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ironically…I just got the “new exclusive access” (EMH) email from vacation club…

as Gandalf says “the board is set…the pieces are moving”

 

[Tom P.]

…yeah about that…

…this

what year is it again?

So the whole "fight for 15" thing is pretty much a bust then? As I always knew it would be. Keep those goalposts moving. I still say, why not just make the minimum wage $100 per hour and then everybody can afford everything. The important thing is that Disney is always in the wrong. Always. No exceptions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And that's why most young people have roommates and don't have luxuries like living alone. You aren't going to have a 30yr career being a simple shift lifeguard and no one should expect to be. So can we stop the stupid 'living wage' non-sense as if every job is a 'support your whole life' thing.

Problem is how much of the total jobs fall into that “stupid” range?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So the whole "fight for 15" thing is pretty much a bust then? As I always knew it would be. Keep those goalposts moving. I still say, why not just make the minimum wage $100 per hour and then everybody can afford everything. The important thing is that Disney is always in the wrong. Always. No exceptions.

Fight for $15 is a political football used by BOTH sides…not hard to decipher…

but not here

 

[havoc315]

We go every summer and have for the last decade (minus 2020). Always stay on property. I know several families in my town that do the same thing

And you’re on this board. I know many people on this board who go every year.

Off the internet, I’ve never met any person outside Florida who does so. I know such people exist. But the biggest Disney fanatic I know, went maybe 10-15 times in 25 years. I’ve never met anyone offline who has done more than 20 trips. (I’m at about 8 over 50 years now).

But here is the question— do you know anyone who has gone 1-3 times?
Is everyone you know a 20-tripper or a 0-tripper. Or do you know people that have gone just 1 time or just a few times?

And do you know more “occasional” visitors than every-year visitors? Or do the every-year visitors outnumber the occasional visitors?

 

[GhostHost1000]

They're already giving resort guests early EMH, and apparently deluxe will start getting some evening EMH. They could think that's enough.

That’s probably just trying to soften the blow when this crap hits the fan

 

[flynnibus]

I do mean in the grand context of Fastpass and Capacity Management. Disney is worried about long term growth and providing a "better guest experience" so they want to change it ... but do they need to? Is there actually a problem?

The parks were meeting demand (2019) and they were rarely turning people away.
The guest keep complaining it's too crowded, but they keep going.
They complain it is too expensive, but they keep going.

A lot of folks here seem more angry with the change than the status quo .... so ... is there really a problem with keeping things the same? What's the risk?

This is all trying to leading to your own conclusions non-sense

1) Do not take a customer's acceptance of something as a preference, like, or even support for. They can simply be begrudgingly taking it because they feel there is no alternative available.
2) Being angry about ONE solution does not mean people prefer the status quo or even are tolerable of it. If you propose a horrible idea, people are going to shoot it down REGARDLESS of what the current situation is.

 

[aliceismad]

And that's why most young people have roommates and don't have luxuries like living alone. You aren't going to have a 30yr career being a simple shift lifeguard and no one should expect to be. So can we stop the stupid 'living wage' non-sense as if every job is a 'support your whole life' thing.

See that's where we disagree. If an employer pays someone to work full time, yes, that job should support a living wage.

This is $16 for housekeepers. When was the last time you saw a lot of high-school and college-aged housekeepers who were just using it as a part-time job until their "real career" came in. That's the type of thinking that gets us into labor issues in the first place. When we look down on "the help/non-career jobs" and everyone pushes their kids to "get a real job."

My mother in law worked in housekeeping and kitchens until the day she retired (on my father in law's military benefits mostly). These are adults, raising kids, spending hours on their feet to serve us. So yeah, I think they deserve to be paid well enough to eat healthy meals and buy a home and afford to go to the doctor.


BUT this is neither here nor there in relation to the fastpass thread, which I failed to realize I was on. So for that, I will say that it's sad people feel they're being priced out by Disney but I don't see how this is surprising to anyone who has been half paying attention.

 

[ParentsOf4]

At this point though.... both things can't be true: Pricing can't be oppressively high AND the park is overcrowded.

Supposedly, Guest surveys all report the same thing. WDW is too expensive. WDW is too crowded. So yes, both can be true.

Supply and Demand ... still alive and well.

You know that does lead to an interesting hypothetical: If the parks are meeting demand, but just really busy, is there really such a thing as overcrowding?

Yes, there is such a thing as overcrowding. Perhaps more than anything, overcrowding and price are what hurts Guest satisfaction the most. Overcrowding and price probably are the two leading factors that cause Guests to return less often.

I mean I think it's miserable and I'm pretty tired of paying money to wait in long lines for the same attractions over and over again but .... people still do it. Maybe there really isn't any problem to be solved here. Let the market figure it out.

Except "let the market figure it out" is not what Disney sells. Disney sells magic. Disney sells dreams.

Disney has to be careful - their financial success revolves around their image.

From a marketing & sales perspective, perhaps the most important aspect of Premier Access is that it's an impulse buy. It's not something you purchase ahead of time. You don’t factor in its cost when deciding where to vacation.

This is central to its success. Premier Access costs nothing before you arrive. You make your decision literally in the heat of the moment. You're hot. You're sweaty. You're tired. The thought of waiting in line for an hour makes you miserable. For only $10 (or $20) per person, Disney can send a little magic your way. You just spent $5000. What's another $40 (or $80) more?

What Disney cannot do is let Guests feel as if "the market is figuring it out." That's not magical. Getting to the front of the line - that's magical.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We go every summer and have for the last decade (minus 2020). Always stay on property. I know several families in my town that do the same thing

Of course you do…because wdw has a high number of frequent visitors at all times…

except from New York…where they have the highest number of vacation club contracts (at last glance) and second highest per capita

 

[dreday3]

See that's where we disagree. If an employer pays someone two work full time, yes, that job should support a living wage.

This is $16 for housekeepers. When was the last time you saw a lot of high-school and college-aged housekeepers who were just using it as a part-time job until their "real career" came in. That's the type of thinking that gets us into labor issues in the first place. When we look down on "the help/non-career jobs" and everyone pushes their kids to "get a real job."

My mother in law worked in housekeeping and kitchens until the day she retired (on my father in law's military benefits mostly). These are adults, raising kids, spending hours on their feet to serve us. So yeah, I think they deserve to be paid well enough to eat healthy meals and buy a home and afford to go to the doctor.


BUT this is neither here nor there in relation to the fastpass thread, which I failed to realize I was on. So for that, I will say that it's sad people feel they're being priced out by Disney but I don't see how this is surprising to anyone who has been half paying attention.

And we should accept the fact that prices are going to increase when wages increase. Even at Disney.
I'm okay with paying more so someone else can earn more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

See that's where we disagree. If an employer pays someone two work full time, yes, that job should support a living wage.

This is $16 for housekeepers. When was the last time you saw a lot of high-school and college-aged housekeepers who were just using it as a part-time job until their "real career" came in. That's the type of thinking that gets us into labor issues in the first place. When we look down on "the help/non-career jobs" and everyone pushes their kids to "get a real job."

My mother in law worked in housekeeping and kitchens until the day she retired (on my father in law's military benefits mostly). These are adults, raising kids, spending hours on their feet to serve us. So yeah, I think they deserve to be paid well enough to eat healthy meals and buy a home and afford to go to the doctor.


BUT this is neither here nor there in relation to the fastpass thread, which I failed to realize I was on. So for that, I will say that it's sad people feel they're being priced out by Disney but I don't see how this is surprising to anyone who has been half paying attention.

I’ve never been able to find any controversy in the idea that a full time job should be liveable and provide health care….

im practically Lenin

 

[ctrlaltdel]

And that's why most young people have roommates and don't have luxuries like living alone. You aren't going to have a 30yr career being a simple shift lifeguard and no one should expect to be. So can we stop the stupid 'living wage' non-sense as if every job is a 'support your whole life' thing.

At the risk of going off-topic, I just want to say there is dignity and value in all work and while I don’t think everyone should be making gobs of money doing absolutely anything, you certainly should be making a wage you can comfortably live on if you work full time in America, especially for a corporate behemoth like Disney that relies on their labor to make sure their cash cow properly functions. Disney’s wages don’t appear great, but they certainly are in the range of livable, even if they could, and probably should, pay more.

 

[flynnibus]

Off the internet, I’ve never met any person outside Florida who does so. I know such people exist. But the biggest Disney fanatic I know, went maybe 10-15 times in 25 years. I’ve never met anyone offline who has done more than 20 trips. (I’m at about 8 over 50 years now).

I've met plenty of people with temples to Disney in their house.. and go and spend like mad who just aren't forum people.

Never do I say "I wonder what their wdwmagic handle is..." when I see an AP sticker all the way up here in the Mid-Atlantic because I know we are the tiniest of minorities. The number of people on the forums/etc are a tiny sliver. Even the numbers that just follow facebook groups, or those armies of vloggers/twitter/etc dwarf the population of the biggest forums.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And we should accept the fact that prices are going to increase when wages increase. Not right or wrong, just is.

And in Orlando…the living expenses are increased to immediately gobble the difference up.
…and Disney makes more

 

[Ripken10]

And you’re on this board. I know many people on this board who go every year.

Off the internet, I’ve never met any person outside Florida who does so. I know such people exist. But the biggest Disney fanatic I know, went maybe 10-15 times in 25 years. I’ve never met anyone offline who has done more than 20 trips. (I’m at about 8 over 50 years now).

I know more than I thought I knew and we live a good distance away. A guy I work with goes about once a year while his wife goes a couple times a year. My oldest friend goes at least twice a year, sometimes 3 times (goes every spring break, usually goes for marathon weekend, picks halloween or christmas every year). My mentor at my other job goes at least once a year. Neighbor has gone twice this year and is planning a 3rd in October (wants us to join them every year, but I want to switch to every two years so the kids don't get used to it). Another close friend goes at least 2 times a year (3 if she doesn't do a disney cruise...most often she seems to not to go to disney when doing a cruise).

A few years ago I would have said the same as you, but the more we talk to people the more we realize how many people do go a lot. And they are from every work of life. One of the above makes a good deal of money, while another is a police officer. One of my wife's co workers (teacher) goes with her husband (also a teacher) several times a year. Govt worker, nurse. Not all upper middle class like you would expect (honestly I never know how some can afford it so often).

None of the people I described are on these boards. I only know of one person that is on any of these boards (and he does one of the "other" ones). So there is definitely a crowd of people not on these boards that go to disney world once a year. The more you go the more people you meet in that same situation. It doesn't mean it is a majority. I have taken half a dozen different families for the first time (or first time in 25 years). Always seems to be someone that wants to plan with us to do a "once in a lifetime" trip.

 

[dreday3]

And in Orlando…the living expenses are increased to immediately gobble the difference up.
…and Disney makes more

I edited my post while you were quoting me. Not that it would change what you posted, but thought neighborly to tell you.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I know multiple people that go to WDW every year, although I’ve lived on the east coast for all my life (except for college). Those places are either extremely wealthy with lots of people (DC area) or Florida-crazy (Western NY).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And you’re on this board. I know many people on this board who go every year.

Off the internet, I’ve never met any person outside Florida who does so. I know such people exist. But the biggest Disney fanatic I know, went maybe 10-15 times in 25 years. I’ve never met anyone offline who has done more than 20 trips. (I’m at about 8 over 50 years now).

But here is the question— do you know anyone who has gone 1-3 times?
Is everyone you know a 20-tripper or a 0-tripper. Or do you know people that have gone just 1 time or just a few times?

And do you know more “occasional” visitors than every-year visitors? Or do the every-year visitors outnumber the occasional visitors?

 

[flynnibus]

At the risk of going off-topic, I just want to say there is dignity and value in all work and while I don’t think everyone should be making gobs of money doing absolutely anything, you certainly should be making a wage you can comfortably live on if you work full time in America, especially for a corporate behemoth like Disney that relies on their labor to make sure their cash cow properly functions. Disney’s wages don’t appear great, but they certainly are in the range of livable, even if they could, and probably should, pay more.

Nothing about acknowledging a job as not being something you can live and support a family on means it is not dignified nor should it be looked down on. Simply put - not all work is 'support a family' type of work. Not all work is full 40hrs/week. Not all work is gonna get you a house in the burbs, a shiney car, and paying for college. Sorry, we are not at Star Trek yet.

And mentioning its because it's Disney... No wage should be set because "oh look, its a rich guy you work for...".

Good companies share their success with their employees to help motivate, build a sense of ownership and inclusion. They do it because they know their business relies on good people. It's a business straegy and philosophy... not the mindset of "we can afford it"... and people shouldn't apply that thinking from the outside. That's just simple "trying to spend someone else's money" thinking.. and its always flawed.

And don't think I"m defending Disney here - I've said countless times how horrible I think Disney is as an employer, especially for it front-line park workers. But that has little to do with philosophies like LifeGuards should be able to support a family because... humanity.