FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[GhostHost1000]

I dont understand the people saying the 60 Day advance Fast Pass was hard to do. In all the time we went we sat down as a group and decided, Never once did we have to juggle parks to get a Fast Pass on any day, including Frozen and Avatar (we were there the 1st or 2nd week it was open on a fluke) and got FOP. If anything for us the 60 day thing made it a bit more relaxing and easier to plan in advance how we wanted to enjoy Disney.

I agree. Other than being up early to do it and the site crashing half the time lol it was nice going on vacation and kinda having things planned out to know you’ll get to do A B and C each day

 

[homerdance]

Over time, people forget about that extra $40, $80, $120, etc. they spent on Premier Pass.

So yes, 3 or 4 years later that family will mostly remember what a great time they had and will be ready to return.

Meanwhile, those who didn’t pay for Premier Pass will remember the long lines and not want to return.

BUT DISNEY DOES NOT WANT THIS SECOND GROUP BACK.

The second group didn’t spend the extra for Premier Pass. Their Per Capita Guest Spending (one of WDW’s important financial metrics) will be lower. With the parks already overcrowded, Disney would rather save the space for someone who might be willing to pay for Premier Pass, or those who return again and again no matter how long they waited in line.

Also, which I have not seen mentioned, the paid passes will create havoc on the standby wait times.

With both FP AND FP+ they were able to predict the total demand of both queues. But with on demand, there will be waits that are posted at 30, but balloon past that due to people skipping the line. This will be especially true with the headliners. And waiting in a posted 30 minute line only to wait longer to see a bunch of people skip it in front of you will poss people off.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney doesn't want you to take a 7 day vacation anymore with them. They want you to spend your 7 day budget in 3-4 days and get out to make room for the next rube. They don't have the capacity to handle everyone's full 7 days of vacation.

Which might be a bad business model if more start going to Uni too. Before Disney wanted you to stay in property and do everything there and only there. Of course with magic express going away….hmmm

 

[dsinclair]

We shouldnt have had to think about that until Disney started building 4 and 5 star hotels.

The point was that it is extremely normal for expensive hotels to charge for parking, as the person I was responding to was saying because Disney hotels are expensive the parking should be free.

 

[orky8]

All you have to do is look at the tickets pricing and how they increase each over a length of stay to prove that this narrative is incorrect.

That ticket pricing is based on the old model. I expect it will change to accommodate the new model if needed.

The old model was very much based on the research that folks take vacations in 1 week increments, have a set budget, and Disney wants to capture that entire budget and weeklong vacation. That old model was also about trying to fill the parks and spark demand. Under that model, Disney captured you at MCO, brought you to their property, and kept you there. Ticket prices incentivized you to stay. Free transportation made it hard to leave. And perks made you want to stay onsite.

Now, Disney has a demand problem -- too many people want to come there and they can't accommodate everyone who wants to come. Instead of increasing capacity, they are trying to find ways to maximize revenue based on the capacity they have. We have seen them take many steps to do this, all of which are moving away from the old model. First, no more MDE. Second, a token EMH benefit for all, but really, mainly for deluxe guests. Third, pay to play FP. Fourth, more after hours events -- essentially double selling the parks. Didn't have a magical time? Then you should have spent more. Don't come back unless you are willing to pony-up, because there are a thousand people ready to take your spot.

And this is no secret, Chapek has said all this to wall street. They have unprecedented demand. APs are undesirables. They are looking to increase per guest spending.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Who’s bankrolling the vloggers in this brave new world? You’re going to see more allegiance than ever — in order to survive.

I don’t want anyone to do poorly but I can’t help but think lifestyle vloggers and tiktokers contributed to this crossroads, greatly. Especially those who say that everything at Disney is fabulous. Kids aren’t the only ones watching them. What’s an extra $300 per person per day when we live in the FOMO era. What’s an extra $500? Oh, and club level is a must to have that perfect experience. Here are all the things you need (and money to spend) to do to make your trip perfect. Disney sitting back saying… do your thing, we’ll just accommodate quietly in the background.

 

[Raineman]

Disney doesn't want you to take a 7 day vacation anymore with them. They want you to spend your 7 day budget in 3-4 days and get out to make room for the next rube. They don't have the capacity to handle everyone's full 7 days of vacation.

But Disney knows that the longer they keep you in the bubble, the more $$ they make from you. And most people's budget is set before they go, with room and park tickets already purchased, and either a DDP or money set aside for food; the only variable in the budget would be souvenirs and other extras, and I don't think anyone is gonna burn through that budget allocation in half the time they plan to be there. And I think it has been proven that they can handle many longer vacations with the number of resorts on property-if the resorts and parks were filled to capacity on a regular basis, then that would be an issue, but I don't think that's ever been the case. I would think that the average duration of a WDW vacation is around 1 week, so Disney really couldn't count on short stays to make their $$.

 

[MrPromey]

Pay twice to play.

FTFY

 

[RSoxNo1]

Also, since it seems FP+ is dead, I’ll reveal something about it that AFAIK wasn’t public knowledge.

Same Day FP drops:

TDO used to release same-day FP+ inventory at scheduled times throughout the day for many / most popular attractions in all parks except MK. e.g. Soarin’ used to drop same day FP+ at 1:30pm and 3:30pm.

I’m not really sure why they never did it for any MK attractions, but they did indeed do it for the most popular attractions in the other 3 parks.

That was known.

 

[homerdance]

You know Disney had to issue billions of dollars of debt to get through the closures, right?

At next to nothing, it’s pretty much free money. Also, it didn’t inhibit them from giving full compensation for the C-suite employees.

 

[MrPromey]

We celebrate 50 years only to go back full circle...

If admission prices were to go down (factoring inflation) to match that, I think a lot more people would be on board.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree. Other than being up early to do it and the site crashing half the time lol it was nice going on vacation and kinda having things planned out to know you’ll get to do A B and C each day

What if when I get it to the park and don't feel like doing A B and C but want to do X Y and Z instead.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

To be honest, I much rather them raise prices to like $250/person/day then do this. Whatever is the cost to lower crowds down enough while they still hit whatever revenue they need to hit. Though I would imagine it could get much higher than that to truly drop the crowds to a reasonable level.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The point was that it is extremely normal for expensive hotels to charge for parking, as the person I was responding to was saying because Disney hotels are expensive the parking should be free.

I would counter this with suggesting that it’s common for luxurious hotels to charge for parking.

There’s no hotel at WDW or Universal that I would consider luxurious. Four Seasons? Yes. Any Disney operated hotel? No.

What’s particularly irritating at WDW is that you already were paying for parking - it was included in your room rate. (Just like you were paying for Disney’s Magical Express, but that’s a different topic.)

Other hotels start by charging for parking separately. Parking is not included in the room rate. But this is not the case at WDW. At WDW, you already were indirectly paying for parking.

This is why when Disney started charging for parking, they couldn’t add the fee to DVC stays. Parking was already included in the DVC Maintenance Fees.

This is one of the things offensive about Premier Access. You already were paying for FP+. Disney is taking that away and charging you for its replacement.

 

[phillip9698]

Exactly. Not much difference in price from a 5 day and 10 day. Also, why would Disney want to find 2 families to stay in one room as opposed to finding 1 with a longer stay and not have to clean it.

Its a 51% difference in price, that adds up when you are talking about 4 guests.

IMO the situation reads as Disney wants the whales, they want the people who will come for 5 days, visit each park once, and spend a ton each day on food, souvenirs, and park tickets. Im only going to buy my kid 1 goofy hat/set of ears, 1 caricature, 1 boutique experience, etc...and that number isnt going to increase whether im there 3 or 8 days.

But if someone is booking a 7-14 day trip there is a very high chance that person will look at other Orlando attractions as well, so now Disney has to do something to keep that person in a Disney park. Which is why the largest price decrease on a multi day ticket occurs when you go from a 4 day park ticket to a 5 day park ticket. So if someone is planning a longer vacation they want the comparison to be a $70 Disney ticket vs. a $128 Universal ticket.

 

[lentesta]

Disney can manipulate capacity. Run one track on space mountain. No reason why FP sales have to be limited to busy days

I mean, that's the big concern, right? They control both the posted wait time and the supply of ride capacity.

I can imagine that the legal disclaimer around these paid FastPasses is going to be astounding. Like "You agree that even though we say the standby wait is 60 minutes, and we're charging you based on the fact that we say the wait time is 60 minutes, we might have inside knowledge that the actual wait time is 15 minutes and we're not going to tell you that, and you agree that you can't sue us over that difference."

Also, since it seems FP+ is dead, I’ll reveal something about it that AFAIK wasn’t public knowledge.

Same Day FP drops:

TDO used to release same-day FP+ inventory at scheduled times throughout the day for many / most popular attractions in all parks except MK. e.g. Soarin’ used to drop same day FP+ at 1:30pm and 3:30pm.

I’m not really sure why they never did it for any MK attractions, but they did indeed do it for the most popular attractions in the other 3 parks.

My understanding was that it was to guard against ride breakdowns on FP rides flooding the other FP rides for make-good FPs.

 

[aaronml]

That was known.

Publicly known? It wasn’t that hard to figure out honestly, but I never saw any info about it online, or a list of “drop times” for various attractions, etc.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I can imagine that the legal disclaimer around these paid FastPasses is going to be astounding. Like "You agree that even though we say the standby wait is 60 minutes, and we're charging you based on the fact that we say the wait time is 60 minutes, we might have inside knowledge that the actual wait time is 15 minutes and we're not going to tell you that, and you agree that you can't sue us over that difference."

I hope there’s also a disclaimer, to satisfy some folks on this board, that guests may also be struck by lightning, involved in a vehicular crash, contract the flu, or be eaten by an alligator.

 

[tanc]

Sounds like it would ruin WDW. You're already paying $110+ for a park ticket and you know people will buy this pass. I just hope Japan won't implement this... just sad really. As it stands, I hated having to plan my entire trip months before I even go. In August 2020, that was the first time in years I could go with minimal reservations. I only had dinner reservations and the rest was sort of winging it. All I can say is that if this is a new thing for the American parks, I may start making Tokyo Disney my home resort.

How is it that Japan is like $80 a ticket to Disney but the American parks are over $100 and just keep adding some questionable changes?

 

[LittleBuford]

That was known.

Not if this thread is anything to go by. Many here were insisting you couldn’t get FPs for the headliners unless you were sixty days out.