FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So right off the bat we can assume most DVC owners go at least once every 2 years.

Anyone who lives out of state and buys the AP has to go at least twice for it to make any financial sense.

I personally go at least once a year until lately (thanks corona) and know many families that do also.

When I’m on vacation and start talking to people I also run into many repeat visitors.

Heck when I ride any ride with a pre show 95% of the freaking room knows it word for word and all blurt it out to showoff what a “pro” they are.

“Make it a stretch” “___________” fill in the blank!

People go back to Disney again and again.

It might not be every year, but it’s enough that if they stopped going Disney would be in trouble.

Let me end this:

1. first the “year” is not the criteria…that’s an arbitrary category. “Frequent” is studied and can be redefined at any time. If you go twice in 6 months and then don’t go for 18…the net effect is the same as if you show up for spring break. It doesn’t matter.
2. I had access to this data…it was along time ago…but it’s not a mystery. It got to 50% of repeat guests because that was what the third gen management built and designed for…but it’s not a theory.
Now…could that have slid since? Sure…but not clear out of the ballpark. And consider this: in my day you could easily do a week for 4 at $1500-2500. What is that now? $4000? More probably like $5000+. So with the continued mass of wealth going to the upper select and the lower class increase in the US - statistics…fact - there are now more people that can afford the one timer trip?

that makes sense…or is it more likely that the “private playground” aspect of the money compound in 32830 may even have increased?

what makes sense?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Interesting read from Joshua Harris, who was a Designer for Disney:

I take issue with the line, "If you love FastPass you should pay for it." We pay for it when we pay ever-increasing ticket or AP prices.

I understand that people accept paying for it at other parks. Those are cheaper parks, or did I miss the Disney version of the Coke can 2-for-1 deal like Six Flags has offered in NJ? Disney shouldn't be in the business of lowering themselves to their "competition's" level.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nope, NYC suburbs. Swear, never met anyone who went more than 5 times in 7 years. Most everyone I know thinks I’m crazy, for going 3 times in 10 years.

I know people who take cruises every year (to different destinations). Lots of people who go to Europe every year (pre-covid, different destinations each year). Know people who go to their Hamptons or Jersey shore houses every year, but don’t know anyone who goes to WDW in Orlando every single year.

Gotta be yonkers?

wait!!! Long Island!!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I take issue with the line, "If you love FastPass you should pay for it." We pay for it when we pay ever-increasing ticket or AP prices.

I understand that people accept paying for it at other parks. Those are cheaper parks, or did I miss the Disney version of the Coke can 2-for-1 deal like Six Flags has offered in NJ? Disney shouldn't be in the business of lowering themselves to their "competition's" level.

That dude is a complete tool. He can’t even swallow what he’s spinning

 

[No Name]

The whole point of Universal’s Express Pass system is that you pay a high amount in advance so that you can have a stress-free day and be in high spirits. The problem with this system Disney just invented is that it seems you’re constantly stressed deciding whether to further empty your wallet or wait in a long line.

Disney could argue all day that this is logistically better for guests. Anyone here could argue it. But it hardly matters if they’re right or wrong, because what’s ultimately lost here is the psychological effect. Ironically, legacy fastpass didn’t give the average person a real benefit but made people think they were getting one. Fastpass+ made non-hotel guests feel pretty valued too. In those respects, the system worked phenomenally. This new system seems so destined for failure that I’m curious whether it’ll make it out of Paris.

If they want to charge for it, they should just do something like what Universal and almost every other amusement park in the country does. It feels like they don’t want the perception that they’re behind the competition and/or copying their decade-old system, so they felt compelled to do this unwise thing.

 

[dovetail65]

21 million what? Magic kingdom? Disneyland?

and if 17 mil were “one and down”…you’d run out of capable Mericans in about a decade…maybe less.

babies aren’t that big of a “thing” anymore…this isn’t 1947.

I think you misinterpreted something wrong there…

and for the billionth time: don’t pay attention to investor calls!! It’s a sales pitch…like on a dodge neon.

and fastpass+ sucked. Period. But there are always minority opinions.

and Disneyland is AP dependent…wdw not even close.

The numbers were for Magic Kingdom and that is what I said WDW is dependent on AP a couple months a year, AP at Disneyland filled the park 50% on any given day adn create an issue.

If you don't like the numbers argue with the writers of the article on WDW news, I am not sure how they define unique visitors, but the point remains valid. Chapek is after higher spending per person.

he believes believes from the data he is relying upon that this does not come from repeat visitors, especially of the local variety ie AP users. Ap users apparently spend in huge uneven patterns, many never spend a dime, but a few select AP users spend mad money. I see more tires on the horizon, maybe a 1500 a year AP that includes FP or DPA?

Everything talked about here regarding FP, AP, DPA etc just backs this view up. Chapek does not seem to care about the repeat visitors, he believe they do not spend enough and truly he probably isn't wrong. My family did it ourselves after the first couple big trips we spent less an less, started staying off property, etc.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I do agree that it needs to be expensive if its going to be a thing. If it's too cheap, then we're just now paying for Fastpass+ and also enduring all the problems that Fastpass+ brings. If there's a steep fee, it will both be a benefit to those who purchase it and also have less of an effect on those who don't.

 

[Touchdown]

I can’t read this thread meltdown in its entirety, so I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I am not going to debate the merits of free vs paid FP. I instead want to focus on why I think premier access is not going to work at WDW, mainly by comparing it to other North American Theme Park offerings.

Ok first let’s guess on the price, 8 euros is roughly $10 based on the exchange rate. While WDW is likely to be more expensive I’m going to give PA the benefit of the doubt and make the starting price $9.99 my gut feeling is the top rate will be double that, $19.99. Let’s average that price at $15 for simplicity.

Ok what does that buy you? It buys you essentially a Fastpass, a ticket to come back later during a time you can’t pick (potentially hours later) during a set interval and wait in potentially a 30 min line once (assuming it’s used as much as FP now.)

The only park that offers something similar is Six Flags with their Flash Pass. The base model grants you a device where you can select a line and have your virtual queue wait for you 75% whatever the wait is for the ride (upcharges reduce that time by 50% and 90%) at your time you will have a <15 min wait at the ride. The price for the bronze flash pass at the chains flagship park (Magic Mountain) starts at $60, and Sat July 10 is $75 which I assume is the ceiling price (Saturday in the summer.). Obviously $75>$15, but I think even the most inept guest is likely to ride >6 rides in a day thus not only do you have to wait less time in a virtual queue you get a “discount rate on the whole day.”

Sea World/Busch Gardens has a punch card system that allows you a ride on every ride that offers quick queue (anytime you want) for a similar rate.

Cedar Fair and Universal offer a pass that allows you to use the Fastlane/Express pass queue unlimited times during the day. Cedar Fair’s flagship park Cedar Point charges $101-$169 for this privilege. To get to $15 a ride you have to ride 12 rides, very likely for an average guest. Universals 2 park unlimited ranges from $101-$329. 22 rides to get to $15 a ride, doable but only for warriors but even if you don’t hit all the rides the flexibility and unlimited access has tangible benefits.

As you can see, Disney’s Premier Access is more expensive, more restrictive, less user friendly, and feels more like a money grab (constantly having to purchase this anytime you want to use it for each ride) then any system in the United States and it has the additional handicap of being introduced to replace something that was free.

This is going to seriously hurt the brand, perhaps permanently and be widely unpopular and prone to user error; in short a disaster.

They should have brought Maxpass East or mimicked one of their competitors, I don’t think Americans are going to accept this.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

If they want to charge for it, they should just do something like what Universal and almost every other amusement park in the country does.

As you suggest, there's already an "industry standard" for this sort of thing. Pay once and you're good to go. Expensive, but easy to understand.

So of course Disney has to invent their own, convoluted system instead.

 

[britain]

I take issue with the line, "If you love FastPass you should pay for it." We pay for it when we pay ever-increasing ticket or AP prices.

I understand that people accept paying for it at other parks. Those are cheaper parks, or did I miss the Disney version of the Coke can 2-for-1 deal like Six Flags has offered in NJ? Disney shouldn't be in the business of lowering themselves to their "competition's" level.

But I think what he’s trying to say is paying for fast pass would not require such egregious price hikes elsewhere.

I am fine with saying that a fast pass for Rise of the Resistance has real monetary value above a fastpass for Winnie the Pooh.

There could be sneaky skulduggery involved here, but on the surface I am perfectly fine with the fast pass becoming an up charge, because it seems like it would address everything I disliked about fast pass.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Paid FastPass is another way Disney and its fans can hype the "value" of After Hours and the like.

"Why you'd have to buy x many FastPasses to get as many short lines in a 3 hour time frame!"

 

[TrojanUSC]

As you suggest, there's already an "industry standard" for this sort of thing. Pay once and you're good to go. Expensive, but easy to understand.

So of course Disney has to invent their own, convoluted system instead.

I just don't think they want the bad PR of people having to pay $200+ to skip the lines. Fastpass has become so identifiable with Disney. It's a lot more palatable to people who are non-theme park people when you hear $10-20/ride.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I can’t read this thread meltdown in its entirety, so I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I am not going to debate the merits of free vs paid FP. I instead want to focus on why I think premier access is not going to work at WDW, mainly by comparing it to other North American Theme Park offerings.

Ok first let’s guess on the price, 8 euros is roughly $10 based on the exchange rate. While WDW is likely to be more expensive I’m going to give PA the benefit of the doubt and make the starting price $9.99 my gut feeling is the top rate will be double that, $19.99. Let’s average that price at $15 for simplicity.

Ok what does that buy you? It buys you essentially a Fastpass, a ticket to come back later during a time you can’t pick (potentially hours later) during a set interval and wait in potentially a 30 min line once (assuming it’s used as much as FP now.)

The only park that offers something similar is Six Flags with their Flash Pass. The base model grants you a device where you can select a line and have your virtual queue wait for you 75% whatever the wait is for the ride (upcharges reduce that time by 50% and 90%) at your time you will have a <15 min wait at the ride. The price for the bronze flash pass at the chains flagship park (Magic Mountain) starts at $60, and Sat July 10 is $75 which I assume is the ceiling price (Saturday in the summer.). Obviously $75>$15, but I think even the most inept guest is likely to ride >6 rides in a day thus not only do you have to wait less time in a virtual queue you get a “discount rate on the whole day.”

Sea World/Busch Gardens has a punch card system that allows you a ride on every ride that offers quick queue (anytime you want) for a similar rate.

Cedar Fair and Universal offer a pass that allows you to use the Fastlane/Express pass queue unlimited times during the day. Cedar Fair’s flagship park Cedar Point charges $101-$169 for this privilege. To get to $15 a ride you have to ride 12 rides, very likely for an average guest. Universals 2 park unlimited ranges from $101-$329. 22 rides to get to $15 a ride, doable but only for warriors but even if you don’t hit all the rides the flexibility and unlimited access has tangible benefits.

As you can see, Disney’s Premier Access is more expensive, more restrictive, less user friendly, and feels more like a money grab (constantly having to purchase this anytime you want to use it for each ride) then any system in the United States and it has the additional handicap of being introduced to replace something that was free.

This is going to seriously hurt the brand, perhaps permanently and be widely unpopular and prone to user error; in short a disaster.

They should have brought Maxpass East or mimicked one of their competitors, I don’t think Americans are going to accept this.

I do certainly hope that model is not adopted over here. I think a paid system can work, and benefit the majority - but I am very unsure on what Paris is doing.

 

[Giss Neric]

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Will Disney be more selective about which rides offer FP? Will they finally get rid of it from HM and PotC?

Or is Disney counting on the ignorance of some to pay $10 to get one for Journey Into Imagination with Figment?

 

[Touchdown]

I do certainly hope that model is not adopted over here. I think a paid system can work, and benefit the majority - but I am very unsure on what Paris is doing.

Me too. Personally, if I’m going to pull the trigger on an upgrade I want all day access.

 

[havoc315]

Gotta be yonkers?

wait!!! Long Island!!

Neither. But I have a story of how I jinxed my neighbor and cost her a Presidential election.

 

[EdnaMode]

One thing I feel positive about in terms of DLP charging a per/person, per/ride fee to use the FP line is that I can easily see the valuation Disney puts on a given attraction. We are fortunate to be able to afford to do this, but it turns out there's no single attraction at DLP (or any Disney park) that I value at $20-$36 (two of us) in addition to admission.

 

[MrPromey]

My question is what attractions have 25 minute or less wait times these days?

For all those that don't, where is Disney going to store all those extra bodies not waiting in lines, anymore?

They can send them all off to stand on random pieces of concrete in Epcot but MK already has crowding issues, Hollywood Studios doesn't have much open space and Animal Kingdom is the park they realized really didn't have room to do parades in so....

 

[aaronml]

There is no way that 25 mins would be the cutoff point. 60 mins seems more likely IMO