Fantasmic gets cut to just 2 shows per week

[Giraffe Lounge]

Lest we forget, Disney calculates its attendance figures based on the first park you visit in a day--removing Fantasmic!, if anything, may promote more guests going to DHS first thing in the day and then Epcot or the MK later, so DHS could see an artificial boost in attendance numbers. I don't think overall profits are affected at all, though. People who are planning trips to WDW aren't going to cancel because of this. Whether they spend the evening at DHS or Epcot doesn't really matter. They'll still be eating dinner and buying souvenirs.

That's the way that the TEA/ERA yearly attendance figures are calculated, I would expect that Disney, with the ability to track passes and such, has a much more refined system.

But you're point is taken insofar as next year's Attendance Report may be skewed.

OT- this is a major gripe I have with the way the TEA/ERA report is created in regards to resorts with multiple parks. For example, all summer Disneyland opens at 8am and DCA opens at 10am, the two are 100 yards from each other. So even if you go to the resort expressly to ride the new Midway Mania attraction, if you're there at 9am you're going to spend an hour at DL and give that park attendance credit, even if you're really there for DCA (never thought those words would actually get typed by me).

 

[jmvd20]

But...that isn't what you said.


That is what you said.

I am asking you how that can be when it is the very case at MK?:shrug: People do choose to go or not go to certain parks because of the nightly entertainment that is or isn't taking place.

I know exactly what I said... The first statement is in relation to a family canceling their WDW trip altogether because Fantasmic is only being shown 2 days a week - which is ridiculous.

The second statement is a response to a post by you:

Originally Posted by Timmay
So is saying the amount of visitors in the park will remain unchanged whithout it.

And I still hold by what I said:

I doubt daily attendance numbers would be effected much at all by it. I doubt many people at WDW are going to say "Well Fantasmic isn't running so we aren't going to DHS today".

Now that Fantasmic will be showing only 2 nights a week then sure, more people may come on a night when it is showing, however I do not feel that there will be much of a negative overall impact on the days when it does not run.

This discussion began somewhere in the 350 posts prior to this one when people were saying that Disney is shooting themselves in the foot, Fantasmic is the number one crowd draw at WDW, without Fantasmic DHS can't survive etc... Statements like those are the ones that I was referring to about people massively overstating the effect Fantasmic has.

What is now being discussed and brought up is different, people shifting from one park to another based upon what is happening on a particular night. Of course people will migrate to where things are happening, however it does not effect the bottom line. DHS will be just fine with or without Fantasmic, that is jist of all this.

 

[Timmay]

Of course people will migrate to where things are happening, however it does not effect the bottom line. DHS will be just fine with or without Fantasmic, that is jist of all this.

You are making two false assumptions:

1) People that migrate from DHS will stay on property.

2) Everyone at the parks have Park Hoppers.

If you don't take those two into account, then of course it has no impact on the bottom line. But the fact is, both of those two are true and accurate. There will be an impact on the bottom line.

You give no credit to Fantasmic keeping people in the park...that is just as bad as saying Fantasmic is the only reason people go to the park (which you find plenty of fault with).

 

[jmvd20]

You are making two false assumptions:

1) People that migrate from DHS will stay on property.

2) Everyone at the parks have Park Hoppers.

If you don't take those two into account, then of course it has no impact on the bottom line. But the fact is, both of those two are true and accurate. There will be an impact on the bottom line.

You give no credit to Fantasmic keeping people in the park...that is just as bad as saying Fantasmic is the only reason people go to the park (which you find plenty of fault with).

I think that is where we are having the issue. I am not saying that Fantasmic cant keep more people at DHS longer, just that the number that end up staying longer will not be as significant as some think - for example 10,000 people a night.

 

[shoppingnut]

You are making two false assumptions:

1) People that migrate from DHS will stay on property.

2) Everyone at the parks have Park Hoppers.

If you don't take those two into account, then of course it has no impact on the bottom line. But the fact is, both of those two are true and accurate. There will be an impact on the bottom line.

You give no credit to Fantasmic keeping people in the park...that is just as bad as saying Fantasmic is the only reason people go to the park (which you find plenty of fault with).

I totally agree with this assessment. When I go with my sister and 4 yr old nephew, I won't buy park hoppers for them since I can plan a trip without them. He loves F, he is talking about going to see it when we go in September. While I have an AP and can hop anywhere I want, I might decide to take the night off and head off property for dinner and shopping at the premium outlets instead.

Disney's whole plan for the last several years was to keep people on property, not push or let them off.

 

[DisneyJoe]

F! routinely fills 6000-10,000 "seats" per night, now 5 nights a week those thousands need to find something else to do.

The new AI theater will not be able hold that capacity, lets say it holds 3000...thats 3000-7000 that will need to find something else to do - they used to stay.....UNLESS they do the AI nightly finale at the F! amphitheater!?!?!

 

[RiversideBunny]

Just think of it- thousands of guests running amok.
Wandering the streets. Lost in an unreal landscape with no Fantasmic, no pillar of fire to guide them.
Like the night of the living dead, like zombies staggering and lurching, seeking comfort in entertainment- but where, where is the entertainment?

The horror, the horror.

 

[Eyorefan]

just think of it- thousands of guests running amok.
Wandering the streets. Lost in an unreal landscape with no fantasmic, no pillar of fire to guide them.
Like the night of the living dead, like zombies staggering and lurching, seeking comfort in entertainment- but where, where is the entertainment?

The horror, the horror.

:roflol:

 

[radiohost]

I dont want to search through 20 pages to find the answer....


Is this true or not???

 

[jmvd20]

You are making two false assumptions:

1) People that migrate from DHS will stay on property.

2) Everyone at the parks have Park Hoppers.

If you don't take those two into account, then of course it has no impact on the bottom line. But the fact is, both of those two are true and accurate. There will be an impact on the bottom line.

These are both good points and are relevant to what was being discussed (somewhere on this thread) - in reality is closing the show for 5 nights a week in January going to lose huge amounts of money for WDW and I think the answer is no.

Lets assume that the theater would have had 6000 people in it on January 12th - which may be generous but we'll go with it. After all they are closing it in the off-season when crowds are much lighter.

Lets also assume that none of those people will stay at DHS because Fantasmic isn't running. Also not a single one of them is staying on property or has a park hopper so they all leave around 5 or 6 at night. By that time they have most likely already bought their Mickey Ears, souvenirs, and possibly dinner since they are not on property and may have another hour or 2 before they get back to where they are staying.

Assuming all of that how much money did WDW really lose out on for keeping them there another 3 or 4 hours. Some glow in the dark toys for sure, popcorn, pop, hot dogs etc... However now we must consider how much they saved by not having Fantasmic shown that night along with a possibly reduced workforce since the crowds will be smaller, less water and soap used in the restrooms, less gum scraped off the seats, etc...

Of course I do not have the definitive answers to these questions but I would guess that overall effect on the bottom line is nearly nothing. Even in this situation where we have assumed everyone left the park.

 

[jmvd20]

I dont want to search through 20 pages to find the answer....


Is this true or not???

:lol:

But it is a really fun 20 pages!!! :lookaroun

Yes, it is true that Fantasmic will only be shown 2 nights a week in January. After that I dont think there has been an official release yet.

 

[markjohns1]

Personally, I think that the average vacationer will ultimately end up going back to his/her hotel on nights that Fantasmic isn't showing. First, I'm not even sure how many average vacationers have Park Hopper passes to begin with. If these people do have Park Hoppers, the removal of Fantasmic may just serve to FOCUS nighttime revenue to MK and Epcot on nights Fantasmic isn't playing. If they don't have Park Hoppers, DHS will see a decrease in attendance on non-Fantasmic nights, plain and simple.

For the average vacationer, they might very well look to go to DHS only on the days Fantasmic is showing. This might also convince the seasoned Disney vet to target a DHS visit on the non-Fantasmic days. Overall weekly attendance may be quite similar to what it is now, though. That definitely remains to be seen.

If the average vacationer does go to DHS on a non-Fantasmic day, I still do not think it will change their plans too much. For those with hoppers, I agree, it will focus the nighttime crowds to MK, Epcot, or DTD. For those without hoppers, though, I don't see the lack of Fantasmic convincing them to leave earlier then they normally would have. Most visitors who are coming for the first time or come infrequently are probably going to look to get the most for their money, staying until the park's closing hours. They might even determine they've got more time to enjoy a table service meal. If someone is going to go off property because Fantasmic isn't there, it's a safe bet to assume they were planning on going off property at some point during their vacation anyways.

As short-sighted as many seem to think the Disney Execs are, seeing this as simply a short-term cost cutting move, I think there is a lot more to this decision. Expectations have been created to have a nighttime show every night at DHS. If the execs are wanting to make DHS an attraction-oriented park and move away from a major nighttime event, which the latest slew of rumors seem to indicate, they need to break that expectation. Scaling back the number of showings of Fantasmic helps to bridge that gap, instead of eliminating Fantasmic altogether. It seems to me that this is one of the first moves of many to create a new focus for the park. Sure it may be a problem for a little while, and I am bummed because I truly enjoy this show, two showings per week will eventually be the norm and more showings will indicate a special occasion.

Who knows? Maybe they want to add a park-wide nighttime show, along the same lines as Wishes or Illuminations, and want to run Fantasmic like Spectro currently does. That certainly does not seem outside of the realm of possibility.

 

[Timmay]

Of course I do not have the definitive answers to these questions but I would guess that overall effect on the bottom line is nearly nothing.

Really...if that were the case, why didn't they do this years ago? Millions and miliions of dollars could have been saved with little impact on guests to the park.

Many of the things Disney does with their parks I agree with and see logic in. This is not one of those things. I think Disney is taking a huge risk on this move, and I think they know they are too. Disney is trying to make more money any way they can...I just think they are giving some guests excuses to spend some of their Disney money elswhere. I think they believe it is worth the risk. We shall see.

 

[sbkline]

I'm not talking about attendance at just DHS...I'm thinking that Disney is expecting a Resortwide attendance drop, thus they are looking at ways across the board (as any good business would) to reduce costs to offset that lost revenue (I know, these things don't always directly offset each other, but in general, they do in some way)...one way to reduce costs - less F! shows...

At least someone acknowledged and responded to my posts. I was starting to think that my posts were not visible on anyone's computer except my own. :brick:

As to your point, I will reiterate what I have said a few times. The free dining promotion seems to be successful in bringing in more money (even though they are giving away thousands of dollars worth of food for free). Why is that? Because it entices guests to come in, stay on property, buy passes, souveniers, etc. The money spent by these guests outweighs the money lost by offering free food, and as a result, business increases, profits increase and everyone is happy. Since the free dining program is offered year after year so far, it is apparently a succesful promotion. Since Disney has found a way to attract more guests by offering a huge savings, I still argue that if that were their goal now, then they wouldn't do it by cutting Fantasmic. They would do it by offering a similar promotion. Maybe a dining promotion. Or maybe slashing the rates on rooms. The Disney execs know how to bring in the business, so with the success of the free dining program, I don't know why they would all of the sudden, try to turn to silly things like this to make a buck. So I don't think that lost revenue is the reason behind this move. Or, to say it another way, if Disney really was projecting such a drop in resortwide attendance, then I would think that they would be trying for ways to increase attendance (by offering good deals on rooms, dining promotions, etc) rather than just accepting defeat and slashing popular attractions to make up for the loss in revenue. Why do you think Disney gives discounts on tickets using the "more you play the less you pay" promotion? On the surface, Disney is losing alot of money by giving an entire 10th day for only 2 dollars more than a 9 day ticket, or making 9 days only a few dollars more than 8 days, etc. Well, the plan is to get people to book that extra night in the room, and to be in the parks an extra day and buy food and souveniers, thereby outweighing any loss on the almost free admission for that day. It just seems to me that the WDW marketing execs already know that the way to bring in more business is to offer deals like that to entice people to come down. So if they really were facing a bleak forecast for attendance, I don't see why they wouldn't employ that strategy again to combat it, rather than doing things like cutting popular attractions, which won't even save that much in the grand scheme of things, anyway.

 

[hauntdmansion79]

In your mind there is nothing to justify taking away Fantasmic because you think that it is "so amazing". Obviously WDW management disagrees with that and apparently many non-disney message board members do as well.

As far as making DHS packed on those 2 nights - perhaps that is part of their consideration and part of the plan... although I still seriously doubt the pull that many here think fantasmic has.

Ask the average guest what they remember about MGM/DHS and I would bet the vast majority will mention ToT and RnR which are the real attractions that draw crowds to the park.

If you are right and Fantasmic does cost less than Illuminations or Wishes (I have no idea how much the cast would make) then this decision would most likely not be due to monetary issues as many have speculated.

I definitely know that the Disney Company and the average Disney guest probably does not agree with me (I know that is the case with many WDW related things), that is just my opinion of Fantasmic.

But what I was stating (and it's only my opinion) is no matter how popular High School Musical, American Idol, or Pixar is. Most of the things in Disney's quote about the new additions to Hollywood Studios do not compare scale/scope wise to Fantasmic.

I am hoping that other posters are correct in that they are reducing it so they can work on something new the other 5 nights a week. That's a smart guess.

I also agree that it doesn't have to do with budget cuts. That was a quick thought I had and after some thought, that can't be the reason.

 

[jmvd20]

Really...if that were the case, why didn't they do this years ago? Millions and miliions of dollars could have been saved with little impact on guests to the park.

I'm not sure why they would choose to do it now and not years ago, but I can guess. Perhaps it is the same reason I have just recently canceled some newspaper and magazine subscriptions we have had for years - money is tighter now and the subscriptions, while nice to have, were really not that important after all :shrug:

 

[earningmyfins]

You'll be less likely to see the show, it's going to be crowded, and the dates will throw everyone off. This sucks.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I can confirm "randomdude657" is correct...

We are continually focused on providing the best possible experiences for our Guests who visit the Walt Disney World® Resort. Within the last six months, we have added significant new attractions and shows at Disney’s Hollywood Studios™, including Block Party Bash, Toy Story Midway Mania!, Pixar Place and Journey Into Narnia: Prince Caspian.

Coming in October 2008 will be the recently announced “High School Musical 3: Senior Year” and later this year, Disney’s Hollywood Studios™ will host the annual Night of Joy event for the first time and welcome back ABC Super Soap Weekend. At the same time, we have continued to update existing offerings such as Playhouse Disney—Live On Stage! Next year, the park will unveil The American Idol Experience, host the first Grad Nite events at Disney’s Hollywood Studios™ and welcome back ESPN: The Weekend and Star Wars Weekends.

We regularly evaluate and refine our operations. At the same time we unveil The American Idol Experience in January 2009, we will make an adjustment to our operation by offering Fantasmic! on select evenings each week. Fantasmic! will be performed two times weekly –generally Mondays and Thursdays - and more often during our busiest times of the year.

On nights when Fantasmic! is not performed, Guests (with appropriate ticket media) will continue to have the opportunity to enjoy nightly fireworks spectaculars such as Wishes at the Magic Kingdom® Park and IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth at Epcot®.

Showtimes will be published for Guests in the Times Guide, which is available at the theme parks, and online at disneyworld.com.

Wow.

So this is what it feels like to be marginalized. :lookaroun I'm not the demographic the WDW Co. is going after. I'm over 40 and my kids are old enough to drive, and WDW wants guests who like American Idol and High School Musical to go to the Studios Park at night, and people who like . . . well, Fantasmic, to go to the Magic Kingdom or Epcot. :brick:

Not that there's anything wrong with Magic Kingdom or Epcot. :shrug:

 

[culturenthrills]

I totally agree with this assessment. When I go with my sister and 4 yr old nephew, I won't buy park hoppers for them since I can plan a trip without them. He loves F, he is talking about going to see it when we go in September. While I have an AP and can hop anywhere I want, I might decide to take the night off and head off property for dinner and shopping at the premium outlets instead.

Disney's whole plan for the last several years was to keep people on property, not push or let them off.

Well, with cost cutting moves like this and closing PI they will be doing a crappy job of keeping people on property.

 

[Epcotian]

I've just learned that Undercover Tourist is raising ticket prices on Aug 3. Is this mirroring a Disney ticket price increase? They call it the annual increase. If so, it leads me to believe Disney isn't very worried about a drop in attendance in January, and that Fantasmic's reduction is not economy-driven.