Express Transportation starting Dec 7th

[21stamps]

Um, I think you are missing the point. There's a 100% correlation between recessions and downturns in consumer confidence.

Yes, but the graph shows the recession times, yes? There are periods outside of those times where consumer confidence was extremely low. Specifically in the early 2000s, there's other time periods as well.. we have gradually improved and now where we are today- spending again, heavily.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Yes, but the graph shows the recession times, yes? There are periods outside of those times where consumer confidence was extremely low. Specifically in the early 2000s, there's other time periods as well.. we have gradually improved and now where we are today- spending again, heavily.

No, consumer confidence rises (sometimes slowly) after the end of a recession.

You're chasing a red herring. Disney is not a consumer; they are a cash-rich producer. A recession represents a building opportunity for Disney. Construction labor is cheap. Businesses are anxious to sell goods at discounts. Recessions end and are followed by upticks in consumer spending. Having a new offering ready to go soon after the end of a recession is ideal.

It's one of the reasons the Wizzarding World of Harry Potter was so successful in 2010. Universal timed it perfectly after the "Great Recession" and had a product ready to capitalize on that changing market.

By comparison, Disney sat back and lost market share in 2010. Disney's shortsighted strategy allowed the struggling Universal to become a player.

Sorry for the thread drift. Let's discuss this on another thread if you want to continue. I created one recently about Disney's financial performance.

 

[21stamps]

No, consumer confidence rises (sometimes slowly) after the end of a recession.

You're chasing a red herring. Disney is not a consumer; they are a cash-rich producer. A recession represents a building opportunity for Disney. Construction labor is cheap. Businesses are anxious to sell goods at discounts. Recessions end and are followed by upticks in consumer spending. Having a new offering ready to go soon after the end of a recession is ideal.

It's one of the reasons the Wizzarding World of Harry Potter was so successful in 2010. Universal timed it perfectly after the "Great Recession" and had a product ready to capitalize on that changing market.

By comparison, Disney sat back and lost market share in 2010. Disney's shortsighted strategy allowed the struggling Universal to become a player.

Sorry for the thread drift. Let's discuss this on another thread if you want to continue. I created one recently about Disney's financial performance.

No that's ok, I just know that the '90s amusement and theme park boom was directly related an improved confidence by consumers..or at least that's what it has always been attributed to. The 90s saw huge growth in that entire industry at that time. Not just Disney.

 

[DDLand]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I find this whole set up remarkably out of step with everything Disney's ever tried to do.

From their inception Disney Parks have put on a show for park entrance. Traveling through a tunnel and suddenly being transported to a fabulous new world. Walking under an incredible monument and being invited to the epicenter of science and technology. Embarking into deep rain forests to journey and find one's self in a beautiful natural world. Entering a soundstage... I guess we could forget about WDS

In the above, show comes first. A message is relayed to the guest. You're not in the world you knew. Welcome to a Magic Kingdom of land or sea, an Epcot, or a Kingdom celebrating nature with a message it wants to share.

Much like a well written essay, the opening street sets the scene, establishes the thesis, and transports the reader (or in this case guest) into a whole other world.

There have been examples of park gates not found at the main park gate. Hotels like Miracosta and Grand Californian serve to soften the transition, and are actually helping tell the story of their adjoining Parks while the guests explore, sleep, and relax. Subtle yet effective. The entrance into World showcase is slightly less effective, but with ample park space and a more drawn out transition it makes for an enjoyable and fun experience entering the park. Disneyland Monorail also builds suspense and sets the stage impressively well in Tomorrowland and Fantasyland. The worst alternative park entrance ever created has to go to Paradise Pier's entrance, which was pathetic. Of course the same could be said of the host land at the time so...

Even in those cases attempts to soften the transition or even more effectively reinforce the story are carried out.

Now this bus system. The areas of entrance are not purpose designed. They're actually slightly repurposed backstage areas. Instead of attempting to tell story with this transport option they're simply plopping guests into the middle of the park with no thought to theme.

Letting guests out at Harambe or Tomorrowland is akin to asking someone to just start reading an essay right in the middle. The guest misses the purpose and thesis. You're implying the opening isn't worth it or is a hassle to be avoided. The reader should just get to the best parts in the body of the work.

Any mature adult would realize that without context, the best parts of a book become almost meaningless. There is no understanding of why the events are taking place. There is no emotional investment. There is no higher purpose to the events happening. It's simply a ride or themed area that could exist anywhere in any city.

The power of theme parks is the fact that a whole bunch of disparate worlds and adventures can tell a cohesive story. Skipping proper story order and experiencing the events out of the intended sequence cheapens the experience and leaves it's purpose distorted.

Ironically in the guest's pursuit for checking things off a list, they miss any greater message that's trying to be sent. That's part of the reason theme parks are seen as a lesser form of entertainment. When the experiences are looked at through a narrow lens of rides instead of the broader picture of a whole experience.

This is a clear case where being affluent backfires and produces an inferior experience for the guest. I'd expect someone at Disney to realize that as stewards of parks like these, it should be their responsibility to uphold their integrity...

Disney's Animal Kingdom clearly suffers the most from these transport changes.


So to end this, I also have to join the chorus of people amused that they're exposing backstage areas. So 2016 Disney...


It is worth noting that the VIP tour guided guests could already do this. I laugh at the idea of paying hundreds of dollars to skip show you're paying for. Such is life.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nice! I just love it when my remarks are taken out of context and/or entirely misinterpreted.

So I'll reiterate my actual point - Disney has made a habit of not investing in WDW on a regular basis, and then when they do invest in infrastructure improvements (eg MM+, hub makeover, transportation), there is a concomitant upcharge/item for purchase - Magic Bands, fireworks viewing party, and now the park-to-park ticket.

One can debate whether or not the regular guest is impacted or whether you agree with it or not. One cannot debate whether or not the trend is taking place, unless one is willing to disregard the facts.

Well, yes, there is an upcharge trend right now. I imagine every division got a memo asking them to think of a extra service they could provide and then charge extra for.

However, with transportation, there has been...

• new triple axle buses,
  
• dedicated bus lanes (and just generally, a lot of local highway and roadwork being done),
  
• GPS monitoring of buses displayed for guests to see at the bus stops,
  
• the new bus terminals at MK's gate and at DS,
  
• new bus routes to DS from the parks after 4 PM,
  
• and Magical Express.

Disney had been adding and upgrading busing for years now without a concomitant upcharge service until this park-to-park service just now. So, I wouldn't call that a habit of not investing in infrastructure with regard to busing. And I would guess it's more likely this is in response to Uber rather than a monetization of existing services ploy.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, yes, there is an upcharge trend right now. I imagine every division got a memo asking them to think of a extra service they could provide and then charge extra for.

However, with transportation, there has been...

• new triple axle buses,
  
• dedicated bus lanes (and just generally, a lot of local highway and roadwork being done),
  
• GPS monitoring of buses displayed for guests to see at the bus stops,
  
• the new bus terminals at MK's gate and at DS,
  
• new bus routes to DS from the parks after 4 PM,
  
• and Magical Express.

Disney had been adding and upgrading busing for years now without a concomitant upcharge service until this park-to-park service just now. So, I wouldn't call that a habit of not investing in infrastructure with regard to busing. And I would guess it's more likely this is in response to Uber rather than a monetization of existing services ploy.

Magical Express.. not even relevant to the in resort transportation system
New routes to DS? Wow.. let me stand back and bask in that one for a minute.
DS isn't getting new bus stops - the entire place was being rebuilt due to the changes in traffic flow and parking needs
MK Bus Depot... shouldn't have ever been done.. but that is one incremental upgrade they have done. Ok
GPS Monitoring and signboards? Welcome to the year 2000 Disney!!! Disney is still woefully behind in this area and is nothing like a innovator or leader in their capabilities here. Literally, Disney is more than a decade behind modern systems here.
Bus Lanes - thank Reedy Creek
Newer high capacity buses.. in limited use

And after all those wonderful changes you outline... the system is STILL behind the curve, behind the times, and not meeting customer expectations. So as we like to tell employees on their PIP... 'glad to see you making improvements, but you still have a long way to go'

Disney hasn't been investing to the level they need to.

 

[ford91exploder]

Magical Express.. not even relevant to the in resort transportation system
New routes to DS? Wow.. let me stand back and bask in that one for a minute.
DS isn't getting new bus stops - the entire place was being rebuilt due to the changes in traffic flow and parking needs
MK Bus Depot... shouldn't have ever been done.. but that is one incremental upgrade they have done. Ok
GPS Monitoring and signboards? Welcome to the year 2000 Disney!!! Disney is still woefully behind in this area and is nothing like a innovator or leader in their capabilities here. Literally, Disney is more than a decade behind modern systems here.
Bus Lanes - thank Reedy Creek
Newer high capacity buses.. in limited use

And after all those wonderful changes you outline... the system is STILL behind the curve, behind the times, and not meeting customer expectations. So as we like to tell employees on their PIP... 'glad to see you making improvements, but you still have a long way to go'

Disney hasn't been investing to the level they need to.

Disney is investing in their Stock Price, Last year they spent almost 9 billion of their cash on repurchasing shares at the top of the market, But since the executive team is compensated for improvements in stock price not improvements in the BUSINESS, Well in that case you get the deplorable situation we have today and it will only get worse.

I feel bad for the NEXT management team who has to re-allocate that cash that TWDC is currently funneling to Wall St to make necessary capital upgrades to the business. There are gonna be a blaze of shareholder lawsuits etc, Just look at the earnings call Iger is saying we plan no further investment in MLBam (the streaming service) Yo Iger REAL tech is capital intensive.... tech != phone apps

 

[ford91exploder]

In addition to recessions, you need to take into account the number of theme parks. As the number of theme parks increases, those investment dollars get spread pretty thin.

View attachment 179408

Funny thing; except for 2001, there isn't much correlation between recessions and downturns in capex. Strategic-thinking, cash-rich companies know that recessions often offer the best investment opportunities.

Neither of those terms apply to today's Disney, It's more akin to Home Depot under Bob Nardelli who along with his cronies were systematically looting the company. Nardelli's pay package in his last year caused HD to run an operating loss. Fortunately the BoD showed him the door.(unfortunately he got to keep his ill gotten gains).

 

[ford91exploder]

Um, I think you are missing the point. There's a 100% correlation between recessions and downturns in consumer confidence.

We also have a new phenomenon, The CEO recession where businesses refuse to spend and that drives down consumer confidence because of the job losses induced by the refusal of businesses to spend. There are parts of the country who have NEVER emerged from the 2001 recession and the 2008-2010 recession just drove those parts of the country down deeper.

 

[ford91exploder]

Exactly.

Why haven't they driven a bus into a monorail support column yet? Why have they not smuggled weapons in when dropping off cast members backstage yet?

Disney screens their employees and does the best they can with them.

Picking up and dropping off guests from behind screened areas does not increase/decrease the security surrounding a rouge cast member.

Seriously, It seems that recently the only qualification is that one has a pulse, heck especially in F&B and Mousekeeping the staff don't even speak english in many cases, So how can you say Disney has 'extensively screened' their staff, Reality is Disney is going for the cheapest labor possible and in many cases contract labor where the vendor swears in blood that they have screened & trained the staff (The guy using a mop to clean tables is a good example) where in reality neither has happened a fueler is one of these low level jobs which is where you would want to infiltrate if you wanted to do harm because NOBODY pays any attention to low level staff.

No one cares about Manuel bringing in a trash can to a 'secure' area whereas those higher on the food chain are searched entering and leaving. It's just reality but it harks back to a time when Manuel's predecessor Bill was a full time employee and EVERYONE knew and trusted Bill because he'd been there forever and everyone knew his kids birthdays. But Bill retired and was replaced by a stream of contract Manuel's who no one on the staff knows anything about but because the low level staff was always 'trusted' the unfettered access was continued. Bad Idea in todays world.

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

MK waiting area was hot because of the sun, and it was cool outside. there wasn't any kind of shade available, except a small umbrella for the cast. I was sweating by the time the bus picked us up.

Well then you should rent on of Tomorrowland's fabulous cabanas! (/ssssss)

 

[drizgirl]

Well, yes, there is an upcharge trend right now. I imagine every division got a memo asking them to think of a extra service they could provide and then charge extra for.

However, with transportation, there has been...

• new triple axle buses,
  
• dedicated bus lanes (and just generally, a lot of local highway and roadwork being done),
  
• GPS monitoring of buses displayed for guests to see at the bus stops,
  
• the new bus terminals at MK's gate and at DS,
  
• new bus routes to DS from the parks after 4 PM,
  
• and Magical Express.

Disney had been adding and upgrading busing for years now without a concomitant upcharge service until this park-to-park service just now. So, I wouldn't call that a habit of not investing in infrastructure with regard to busing. And I would guess it's more likely this is in response to Uber rather than a monetization of existing services ploy.

That "upcharge" has come in the form of addition revenue from additional guests. It's not like they've been trying to scrape by serving more and more people with the same income. It's just up to management to decide how much of that revenue they want to reinvest in the parks and how much more they want to take as profits.

And of that list, some of those items are directly tied to increasing profits:

1) Buses to DS are to get guests to spend more money. I have no issue with that, but don't hold it out as some sort of humanitarian gesture.

2) Same with Magical Express. If you can get guests to avoid renting a car, they are a captive audience and might spend all of their budget on property. Once again, no complaint since anyone can choose to do this or not. It's a win/win and I like the program. But they aren't doing it to be nice.

3) Triple axle buses? Are those the longer buses? If so, it's possible that's so they can move more people without adding more drivers.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but on my last visit to MK on 12/11, I saw the Express Trans check-in area. It is located in tomorrowland behind Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin. Which makes sense due to the small CM parking lot directly behind the wall in the pic. Which is also the same location as the old Galaxy Theater, RIP.

 

[21stamps]

That "upcharge" has come in the form of addition revenue from additional guests. It's not like they've been trying to scrape by serving more and more people with the same income. It's just up to management to decide how much of that revenue they want to reinvest in the parks and how much more they want to take as profits.

And of that list, some of those items are directly tied to increasing profits:

1) Buses to DS are to get guests to spend more money. I have no issue with that, but don't hold it out as some sort of humanitarian gesture.

2) Same with Magical Express. If you can get guests to avoid renting a car, they are a captive audience and might spend all of their budget on property. Once again, no complaint since anyone can choose to do this or not. It's a win/win and I like the program. But they aren't doing it to be nice.

3) Triple axle buses? Are those the longer buses? If so, it's possible that's so they can move more people without adding more drivers.

A convenient perk that benefits the customer and the business does not automatically make it a bad thing. It doesn't need to be a "humanitarian gesture".

Magical express- same thing. It's a perk that benefits both. Disney World also has rental car agencies on their property, so the notion of picking up guests and stranding them on an island isn't quite accurate...and then there's the Uber, Lyft, and Taxi drivers who are all over the property as well.

The larger busses- once again, mutual benefit.

 

[drizgirl]

A convenient perk that benefits the customer and the business does not automatically make it a bad thing. It doesn't need to be a "humanitarian gesture".

Magical express- same thing. It's a perk that benefits both. Disney World also has rental car agencies on their property, so the notion of picking up guests and stranding them on an island isn't quite accurate...and then there's the Uber, Lyft, and Taxi drivers who are all over the property as well.

The larger busses- once again, mutual benefit.

Maybe you missed my "no complaint" and "no issue" comments?

 

[21stamps]

Maybe you missed my "no complaint" and "no issue" comments?

You repeated the "not doing to be nice". What I'm asking you to consider is - who cares? They don't need to do it to "be nice". A nice perk and a humanitarian effort do not need to be the same thing. That's where I think people are getting confused.

 

[drizgirl]

You repeated the "not doing to be nice". What I'm asking you to consider is - who cares? They don't need to do it to "be nice". A nice perk and a humanitarian effort do not need to be the same thing. That's where I think people are getting confused.

Yes, I agree that some are getting confused.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, I agree that some are getting confused.

Yes. An upcharge and providing a complimentary bus route that may benefit the business and the consumer are not the same thing.

 

[SorcererMC]

Well, yes, there is an upcharge trend right now. I imagine every division got a memo asking them to think of a extra service they could provide and then charge extra for.

However, with transportation, there has been...

• new triple axle buses,
  
• dedicated bus lanes (and just generally, a lot of local highway and roadwork being done),
  
• GPS monitoring of buses displayed for guests to see at the bus stops,
  
• the new bus terminals at MK's gate and at DS,
  
• new bus routes to DS from the parks after 4 PM,
  
• and Magical Express.

Disney had been adding and upgrading busing for years now without a concomitant upcharge service until this park-to-park service just now. So, I wouldn't call that a habit of not investing in infrastructure with regard to busing. And I would guess it's more likely this is in response to Uber rather than a monetization of existing services ploy.

I don't need to repeat what others have already said, but I will add that your post encouraged me to consider something that I hadn't - the Disney Springs route. As Disney was expanding the bus routes to accommodate DS, and therefore shifting resources to support DS, they are likely increasing the burden on the hotel/park transportation routes (especially after 4pm when guest are probably park-hopping)....further necessitating the use of an 'express service' between parks. Well done, Disney!

(Perhaps this was previously discussed in this thread or elsewhere but I'm not going back through nearly 40 pages).

 

[Bandini]

That "upcharge" has come in the form of addition revenue from additional guests. It's not like they've been trying to scrape by serving more and more people with the same income. It's just up to management to decide how much of that revenue they want to reinvest in the parks and how much more they want to take as profits.

And of that list, some of those items are directly tied to increasing profits:

1) Buses to DS are to get guests to spend more money. I have no issue with that, but don't hold it out as some sort of humanitarian gesture.

2) Same with Magical Express. If you can get guests to avoid renting a car, they are a captive audience and might spend all of their budget on property. Once again, no complaint since anyone can choose to do this or not. It's a win/win and I like the program. But they aren't doing it to be nice.

3) Triple axle buses? Are those the longer buses? If so, it's possible that's so they can move more people without adding more drivers.

If this was a humanitarian move on Disney's part, wouldn't they provide a free bus to their outlet store?