Express Transportation starting Dec 7th

[LAKid53]

Could you be any more obtuse? Seriously, maybe if you tried very, very hard, you could. I doubt it, though. Your effort thus far is stunning.

It has ALWAYS required "some" amount of planning to visit WDW. Familiarizing yourself with the park layouts, understanding about what to expect for food, making a few key touchstone dining reservations, etc.

It was already well-established how exceptional WDW is in this regard for a long time - but now, there are more restaurants just at WDW that require booking six-months-out than there are in the entire rest of the United States combined. Disney fans have long ago normalized this sort of insanity, as it's been increasing in degree - tell most people who have not been or haven't been in a long time that they need to schedule every non-fast-food meal six-months-out (and now even some of them!) and they will look at you like you have three purple heads speaking Swahili. And scheduling a fastpass months out for a specific time? Nonsensical to those not majorly desensitized.

What we are talking about is how this has grown so considerably, particularly over the past five years. Gone are the days when you could get in pretty much most anywhere besides Cindy's if you stopped by a kiosk early in the day - you may have gotten a weird time but you could still get a time to stop in and eat. FP+ is the height of ridiculousness - I mean, even just based on the weather. It's a whole lot more complicated now to say, "uh, it's raining like crap today, let's go to Epcot instead of AK".

And this isn't just due to "demand" - it's a very conscious and calculated effort by Disney to maximize things for their direct financial and operational benefit, which is all well and good except for the fact it has all tied into a measurably reduced guest experience and comparatively astronomical cost rise, which is why they get called out on it.

I don't know how long you have been visiting WDW - but there really was a day - and not so very long ago - where you could do a reasonable amount of research, make a rough plan, and not feel like you were about to enter a militarized operation. Sure, there has always been that segment who have been "theme park commandos", and the more research and (flexible) planning you did, generally the *more* full of an experience you could have.

There has been a marked shift to that type of thinking being the norm, not just an option; not just available to guests with the inclination, but being downright required by Disney if you want to eat anything other than double-priced increasingly dismal fast food (who's "value" is about a quarter of what it is priced), or if you want to get a few fastpasses for a couple of key attractions.

We joke about needing to reserve bathrooms in advance - but at this point, can anyone honestly say they would be surprised to wake up tomorrow and read about a new add-on ticket entitlement you can attach to your Magic Band that gets you access to an exclusive set of posh "executive" style bathrooms at each park?


TL;DR? It was one thing when you had to keep updated on official Disney schedules to plan your trip effectively, making a few key reservations for things like Cindys or a Pontoon boat a few months out - it has become an entirely different beast now, sold under the guise of convenience, to a level that was only demanded by the tiniest portion of guests (i.e. the cult of the "Disney Mom's").

There was no reason to be rude and insulting in your response. I visit WDW every 3-4 months and have well over 50 visits since I live about a 4 hour drive away.

 

[AEfx]

I visit WDW every 3-4 months and have well over 50 visits since I live about a 4 hour drive away.

That explains it.

You are essentially a "day guest", even if you stay overnight.

When people are talking about the level and intensity of advance planning required today, we are talking about to the average guest - a family who infrequently visits or the once-or-three-times-in-a-life folks. The vast majority who visit every day.

If they don't get to eat at Be Our Guest (to even be allowed access to cross the bridge to look at it!) as the commercials aired on TV incessantly show, they can't just go next time since they live 4 hours away. Not to mention, presumably you have your own vehicle while there - something Disney highly discourages most guests to do, as the topic of this thread is just another example of. You can grab something to eat anywhere - something the majority of resort guests can't do.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I really hope they bring it back.

 

[WDWTrojan]

If they don't get to eat at Be Our Guest (to even be allowed access to cross the bridge to look at it!) as the commercials aired on TV incessantly show, they can't just go next time since they live 4 hours away. Not to mention, presumably you have your own vehicle while there - something Disney highly discourages most guests to do, as the topic of this thread is just another example of. You can grab something to eat anywhere - something the majority of resort guests can't do.

Exactly. It's a pretty big learning curve for guests of a five-star hotel to learn they can't get a sit-down breakfast at their own resort, because guests not staying there booked it up months ago, yet guests at the Polynesian, Beach Club and others deal with it every day.

 

[doctornick]

Oh, and to be honest, under the current rules I'm less stressed knowing I have a reservation exactly where I want to eat, but I would love to not have to play by those rules. Abolish the 180 ADR!

I think if you got rid of advance bookings and made ADRs and FP day of, it would actually be far more stressful for the once in a lifetime folks. Now, they'd have to wake up each day and remember to book BoG while still getting FPs for PPF and Splash Mountain while still making sure they get to the park earlier enough to ride Space on standby without a big wait all while trying to get their 2.5 kids ready in the morning and not forget their ponchos or water or whatever.

There's a legit argument that the time windows for advance registration is an issue as it obligates people to commit to things far in advance for high demand stuff. Perhaps a 30 or 60 day ADR window or reducing FP+ to 30 days on property/15 days off might be easier. But getting rid of the advance stuff won't eliminate stress at all for once in a lifetime vacationers.

Running around the park to get paper FPs wasn't exactly a joy for noobies either. In fact, the people who benefited from that were the frequent visitors and especially local APs who knew how to maximize the system even when going on a whim. That's why we see so much complaining about FP+ on these types of boards -- it's lessened the advantage that regular visitors had with using paper FP. Most once in a lifetime guests weren't pulling 3 paper FPs a day to use in the good old days.

 

[flynnibus]

I think if you got rid of advance bookings and made ADRs and FP day of, it would actually be far more stressful for the once in a lifetime folks. Now, they'd have to wake up each day and remember to book BoG while still getting FPs for PPF and Splash Mountain while still making sure they get to the park earlier enough to ride Space on standby without a big wait all while trying to get their 2.5 kids ready in the morning and not forget their ponchos or water or whatever.

Or... you just make a majority of your capacity "First Come, First Served..." instead of ADR.

 

[drizgirl]

It has ALWAYS required "some" amount of planning to visit WDW. Familiarizing yourself with the park layouts, understanding about what to expect for food, making a few key touchstone dining reservations, etc.

It was already well-established how exceptional WDW is in this regard for a long time - but now, there are more restaurants just at WDW that require booking six-months-out than there are in the entire rest of the United States combined. Disney fans have long ago normalized this sort of insanity, as it's been increasing in degree - tell most people who have not been or haven't been in a long time that they need to schedule every non-fast-food meal six-months-out (and now even some of them!) and they will look at you like you have three purple heads speaking Swahili. And scheduling a fastpass months out for a specific time? Nonsensical to those not majorly desensitized.

What we are talking about is how this has grown so considerably, particularly over the past five years. Gone are the days when you could get in pretty much most anywhere besides Cindy's if you stopped by a kiosk early in the day - you may have gotten a weird time but you could still get a time to stop in and eat. FP+ is the height of ridiculousness - I mean, even just based on the weather. It's a whole lot more complicated now to say, "uh, it's raining like crap today, let's go to Epcot instead of AK".

And this isn't just due to "demand" - it's a very conscious and calculated effort by Disney to maximize things for their direct financial and operational benefit, which is all well and good except for the fact it has all tied into a measurably reduced guest experience and comparatively astronomical cost rise, which is why they get called out on it.

I don't know how long you have been visiting WDW - but there really was a day - and not so very long ago - where you could do a reasonable amount of research, make a rough plan, and not feel like you were about to enter a militarized operation. Sure, there has always been that segment who have been "theme park commandos", and the more research and (flexible) planning you did, generally the *more* full of an experience you could have.

There has been a marked shift to that type of thinking being the norm, not just an option; not just available to guests with the inclination, but being downright required by Disney if you want to eat anything other than double-priced increasingly dismal fast food (who's "value" is about a quarter of what it is priced), or if you want to get a few fastpasses for a couple of key attractions.

We joke about needing to reserve bathrooms in advance - but at this point, can anyone honestly say they would be surprised to wake up tomorrow and read about a new add-on ticket entitlement you can attach to your Magic Band that gets you access to an exclusive set of posh "executive" style bathrooms at each park?


TL;DR? It was one thing when you had to keep updated on official Disney schedules to plan your trip effectively, making a few key reservations for things like Cindys or a Pontoon boat a few months out - it has become an entirely different beast now, sold under the guise of convenience, to a level that was only demanded by the tiniest portion of guests (i.e. the cult of the "Disney Mom's").

The insane amount of prior planning is one thing. To me the part that makes it worse is the complete disregard Disney has for the pre-planning guests have done. They have no issue at all yanking back FPs, changing up park hours last minute, closing restaurants, etc, which all affects those long ago made plans.

 

[jaklgreen]

It has ALWAYS required "some" amount of planning to visit WDW. Familiarizing yourself with the park layouts, understanding about what to expect for food, making a few key touchstone dining reservations, etc.

It was already well-established how exceptional WDW is in this regard for a long time - but now, there are more restaurants just at WDW that require booking six-months-out than there are in the entire rest of the United States combined. Disney fans have long ago normalized this sort of insanity, as it's been increasing in degree - tell most people who have not been or haven't been in a long time that they need to schedule every non-fast-food meal six-months-out (and now even some of them!) and they will look at you like you have three purple heads speaking Swahili. And scheduling a fastpass months out for a specific time? Nonsensical to those not majorly desensitized.

What we are talking about is how this has grown so considerably, particularly over the past five years. Gone are the days when you could get in pretty much most anywhere besides Cindy's if you stopped by a kiosk early in the day - you may have gotten a weird time but you could still get a time to stop in and eat. FP+ is the height of ridiculousness - I mean, even just based on the weather. It's a whole lot more complicated now to say, "uh, it's raining like crap today, let's go to Epcot instead of AK".

And this isn't just due to "demand" - it's a very conscious and calculated effort by Disney to maximize things for their direct financial and operational benefit, which is all well and good except for the fact it has all tied into a measurably reduced guest experience and comparatively astronomical cost rise, which is why they get called out on it.

I don't know how long you have been visiting WDW - but there really was a day - and not so very long ago - where you could do a reasonable amount of research, make a rough plan, and not feel like you were about to enter a militarized operation. Sure, there has always been that segment who have been "theme park commandos", and the more research and (flexible) planning you did, generally the *more* full of an experience you could have.

There has been a marked shift to that type of thinking being the norm, not just an option; not just available to guests with the inclination, but being downright required by Disney if you want to eat anything other than double-priced increasingly dismal fast food (who's "value" is about a quarter of what it is priced), or if you want to get a few fastpasses for a couple of key attractions.

We joke about needing to reserve bathrooms in advance - but at this point, can anyone honestly say they would be surprised to wake up tomorrow and read about a new add-on ticket entitlement you can attach to your Magic Band that gets you access to an exclusive set of posh "executive" style bathrooms at each park?


TL;DR? It was one thing when you had to keep updated on official Disney schedules to plan your trip effectively, making a few key reservations for things like Cindys or a Pontoon boat a few months out - it has become an entirely different beast now, sold under the guise of convenience, to a level that was only demanded by the tiniest portion of guests (i.e. the cult of the "Disney Mom's").

I don't know if I agree with everything that you are saying. We have been going for over 20 years and even back then there were some places like CRT and LeCellier that you could not get into without booking ahead. But on the flip side, with the exception of those 2 and BOG and a couple other restaurants on property, we have been able to get into plenty of restaurants without making a reservation. Our last trip was in June, just got back 11 weeks ago, and we did not make any reservations because I knew that most of the restaurants keep room open for walk ups. We are more then happy to eat between 4 and 5pm. What is true now, and has been true for a long time is that yes, there will be some restaurants that will be hard to get into. No question. But there are so many more restaurants on property that you will have no problem walking up to. The reason we hear so many ppl complain about it is because the complainers want one of the few restaurants that fall into that small category. If you are someone that will be happy eating pretty much anywhere, then you will not have any issues getting food, even without an advanced reservation.

 

[MaximumEd]

I think if you got rid of advance bookings and made ADRs and FP day of, it would actually be far more stressful for the once in a lifetime folks. Now, they'd have to wake up each day and remember to book BoG while still getting FPs for PPF and Splash Mountain while still making sure they get to the park earlier enough to ride Space on standby without a big wait all while trying to get their 2.5 kids ready in the morning and not forget their ponchos or water or whatever.

There's a legit argument that the time windows for advance registration is an issue as it obligates people to commit to things far in advance for high demand stuff. Perhaps a 30 or 60 day ADR window or reducing FP+ to 30 days on property/15 days off might be easier. But getting rid of the advance stuff won't eliminate stress at all for once in a lifetime vacationers.

Running around the park to get paper FPs wasn't exactly a joy for noobies either. In fact, the people who benefited from that were the frequent visitors and especially local APs who knew how to maximize the system even when going on a whim. That's why we see so much complaining about FP+ on these types of boards -- it's lessened the advantage that regular visitors had with using paper FP. Most once in a lifetime guests weren't pulling 3 paper FPs a day to use in the good old days.

I agree. When I said abolish I didn't mean completely, and should have been more specific. 30-60 days is plenty. 6 months out is just crazy.

 

[jaklgreen]

The insane amount of prior planning is one thing. To me the part that makes it worse is the complete disregard Disney has for the pre-planning guests have done. They have no issue at all yanking back FPs, changing up park hours last minute, closing restaurants, etc, which all affects those long ago made plans.

What do you mean "yanking back fps"? And I have never been in the park where they said, "sorry everyone get out because we decided to close early today". Most things you get plenty of notice on unless it is an emergency.

 

[drizgirl]

What do you mean "yanking back fps"? And I have never been in the park where they said, "sorry everyone get out because we decided to close early today". Most things you get plenty of notice on unless it is an emergency.

FPs can get clawed back for a variety of reasons. Less than 60 days notice on a ride closure or a change in policy about booking (like has happened this year to some booking FPs with a party ticket).

The point is that once you put this puzzle together, choosing park days with ADRs at 180 days, then FPs at 60 days, Disney really should have a very good reason to change things up. And that just isn't always the case. Remember the thread where they closed CRT early for a high dollar private event and called people to cancel/change their ADRs? That was a clear indication they don't take their guests' plans seriously. It they want people to plan that early, they should also plan that early.

 

[AEfx]

The insane amount of prior planning is one thing. To me the part that makes it worse is the complete disregard Disney has for the pre-planning guests have done. They have no issue at all yanking back FPs, changing up park hours last minute, closing restaurants, etc, which all affects those long ago made plans.

This has been an ongoing issue since the windows exploded in size from 60 to 180 days. Back then, Disney only put out their own park hours two or occasionally months in advance, so there was an odd overlapping period when you could make reservations six months out but park hours were not available for months which made planning really difficult.