Expert's Planned Attraction Updates?

[RSoxNo1]

Lots of suits are annoyed with the FLE because it doesn't improve the park's capacity at all. TLM is basically patching the holes left by the 20K removal and Stitch change.

The M&G's replace the TTF circus tents; and although the princesses do deserve better than what they've had in the back corner of the MK, Entertainment is already nervous about the multimillion dollar M&G's with (relatively) tiny hourly capacity.

If I were in charge, I'd keep everything the same except Pixie Hollow, and use the space for the shelved Mickey's Circus D-ticket. Then a new E-ticket would make its way to AL. :lol:

I would love to see what the capacity of each park has been over the years. I know that the numbers are often highly variable based on staffing, but I would assume that some of this information is out there?

20K to Aerial should be an increase in attendance, as should the additional meet and greets. However, does that difference offset the other changes (removal of Skyway, and Tomorrowland theater)?

Also, was there a capacity change from Alien Encounter to Stitch, Toad to Pooh, or Timekeeper to Monster's Inc?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well we know for a fact that the utilidors were his idea. Also the basic location of the MK on the vast property. We also know he was heavily involved with abstract and preliminary concepts for E.P.C.O.T. which he intended for the southern part of the property. Wasn't he also involved with the MK monorail and Contemporary designs?

The idea that he didn't have some discussions with Imagineering about his vision for the MK is naive it seems to me. Fantasy Forest seems very Walt-esque to me.

If Walt had any discussions with the Imagineers about the design of the Magic Kingdom, beyond what is seen in The EPCOT Film, nobody has come forward in the past half century to totally challenge what is known about the man's last months.

If FL didn't also have Pooh, SWSA, Phil., PPF, IASW, Carousel, Tea Cups already I would be more concerned if I were them. But people will have tons of options and since the entire land is targeting a smaller demographic than if it had thrill rides, I really don't think it will be a problem that fastpass can't solve if needed. It is not like they will have the issues the WWoHP has with it's tiny shops.

FastPass does not really help with capacity, as it just puts people in the park somewhere else instead of on an attraction. The only thing it does is affect perceived waits. With the small capacity of the Meet & Greets, it looks like it will have to be no FastPass or only FastPass, as is being done with World of Color.

 

[jt04]

If Walt had any discussions with the Imagineers about the design of the Magic Kingdom, beyond what is seen in The EPCOT Film, nobody has come forward in the past half century to totally challenge what is known about the man's last months.

Which is why I keep bringing up the issue. The silence is compelling in and of itself. If I had to guess it is because a significant ammount of his ideas were cut and/or delayed. It is quite possible the Disney company feared the entire Florida project might ultimately fail without his leadership. The MK opened to guest complaints of not enough attractions as Disney was rather conservative until they knew they had a winner. Then they rushed to complete Pirates and Space ASAP. And the rest is history.

 

[tirian]

I would love to see what the capacity of each park has been over the years. I know that the numbers are often highly variable based on staffing, but I would assume that some of this information is out there?

20K to Aerial should be an increase in attendance, as should the additional meet and greets. However, does that difference offset the other changes (removal of Skyway, and Tomorrowland theater)?

No, TLM simply brings FL's capacity back to about where it was during the Skyway and 20K days, and the M&G's are replacing TTF. Nothing is truly being added.

Also, was there a capacity change from Alien Encounter to Stitch, Toad to Pooh, or Timekeeper to Monster's Inc?

No, the capacity has hovered around the same mark for years. If you read the Company's PR statements carefully, they admit FLE is being built to help absorb the crowds that already exist. It isn't intended to bring in new ones (many execs don't expect it to). FLE addresses poor M&Gs, inadequate quick service and character dining (despite Adv Veranda's being permanently shuttered), and the general lack of FL's landscaping. The Mermaid ride helps spread crowds throughout FL, but it doesn't add any appreciable capacity to the park.

I hope it DOES attract more Guests, but that isn't the expansion's purpose.

 

[jt04]

No, TLM simply brings FL's capacity back to about where it was during the Skyway and 20K days, and the M&G's are replacing TTF. Nothing is truly being added.


No, the capacity has hovered around the same mark for years. If you read the Company's PR statements carefully, they admit FLE is being built to help absorb the crowds that already exist. It isn't intended to bring in new ones (many execs don't expect it to). FLE addresses poor M&Gs, inadequate quick service and character dining (despite Adv Veranda's being permanently shuttered), and the general lack of FL's landscaping. The Mermaid ride helps spread crowds throughout FL, but it doesn't add any appreciable capacity to the park.

I hope it DOES attract more Guests, but that isn't the expansion's purpose.

If they include the details people expect from Disney (see the new mexico m&g) and they don't cut back on the overall plan (toontown NEEDS to go) then I think the place will draw huge crowds. I keep thinking that it will be especially beautiful at night with the trees lighted, traditional background music, water features etc.

I expect it will even be better than the World Showcase aesthetics but on a bit smaller scale. I amazed others don't see the potential of how great this area can be.

 

[RSoxNo1]

FastPass does not really help with capacity, as it just puts people in the park somewhere else instead of on an attraction. The only thing it does is affect perceived waits. With the small capacity of the Meet & Greets, it looks like it will have to be no FastPass or only FastPass, as is being done with World of Color.

While I have suggested that Fastpass be used at the Character spot, I really don't expect to see it at the enhanced meet and greets.

No, TLM simply brings FL's capacity back to about where it was during the Skyway and 20K days, and the M&G's are replacing TTF. Nothing is truly being added.

No, the capacity has hovered around the same mark for years. If you read the Company's PR statements carefully, they admit FLE is being built to help absorb the crowds that already exist. It isn't intended to bring in new ones (many execs don't expect it to). FLE addresses poor M&Gs, inadequate quick service and character dining (despite Adv Veranda's being permanently shuttered), and the general lack of FL's landscaping. The Mermaid ride helps spread crowds throughout FL, but it doesn't add any appreciable capacity to the park.

I hope it DOES attract more Guests, but that isn't the expansion's purpose.

Yeah, this seems to have been known for a while. I expect this to increase the attendance only marginally.

When was the last time any park other than the Magic Kingdom closed for capacity?

How does the Magic Kingdom's capacity compare to Disneyland's?

 

[lebeau]

No, TLM simply brings FL's capacity back to about where it was during the Skyway and 20K days, and the M&G's are replacing TTF. Nothing is truly being added.

That's a real "glass is half empty" approach. If capacity is higher than it was before FLE, then capacity has been added. It doesn't matter if capacity is merely being restored to what it was historically (not sure if that's true or not). Capacity is being added to the park. Truly.

 

[lebeau]

The silence is compelling in and of itself.

The evidence for your theory is the complete lack of evidence? :brick:

 

[jt04]

The evidence for your theory is the complete lack of evidence? :brick:

Then folks would be willing to clarify rather than becomming angry and dismissive. We know Walt Disney was directly involved with several aspects of the design of the Magic Kingdom. He very much wanted to draw from "lessons learned" at Disneyland. So wondering if a Fantasy Forest type design was ever discussed seems very legitimate to me. It was quite obvious in the early days that Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and Frontierland were "half baked" at best. I'd just like to hear what Walt himself wanted in the longer term for the MK's overall scope with as much specificity as possible. Again that is a worthwhile question that should be answered before those memories are lost forever. For instance, how old is the idea of a walled courtyard? If you examine FL's structure it appears to be part of the design from day 1 but was never built out fully. :shrug:

My guess is the sky ride, dumbo (in its location), 20K (in its former location) and even the CoP would not have been approved had he lived longer.

 

[tirian]

That's a real "glass is half empty" approach. If capacity is higher than it was before FLE, then capacity has been added. It doesn't matter if capacity is merely being restored to what it was historically (not sure if that's true or not). Capacity is being added to the park. Truly.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Supposedly—and I don't have numbers to back this up—but I've been told the MK's official capacity did not drop to reflect its closed attractions. In other words, 20K and the Skyway closed, but the park's official capacity remained the same, because the same number of Guests still fit. They simply couldn't do as much as they could before.

FLE allows that same number of Guests to spread out better instead of walking through the current Fantasyland Hallway, by sending them to other M&Gs and one new ride.

For the record, I'm very happy with the FLE (except for Pixie Hollow); yep, I even like the glorified M&Gs. Heck, they're better than the Princess Toy Boxes in TTF. But FLE will mostly solve the MK's current overcrowding that already exists. In its current form, it probably won't add an appreciable capacity increase.

EDIT: In my earlier post, I said it restored "Fantasyland's capacity," not the park's. :wave:

 

[AEfx]

I just can't picture putting a ride in the MSUSA area. It just sounds like an odd concept. Maybe because the Castle Parks are so organized in their hub-leading-to-lands design.

Be careful if you ever go to Disneyland then, where you can see Space Mountain clearly right behind the Main Street buildings from anywhere in the hub. It's jarringly close.

 

[lebeau]

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Supposedly—and I don't have numbers to back this up—but I've been told the MK's official capacity did not drop to reflect its closed attractions. In other words, 20K and the Skyway closed, but the park's official capacity remained the same, because the same number of Guests still fit. They simply couldn't do as much as they could before.

FLE allows that same number of Guests to spread out better instead of walking through the current Fantasyland Hallway, by sending them to other M&Gs and one new ride.

For the record, I'm very happy with the FLE (except for Pixie Hollow); yep, I even like the glorified M&Gs. Heck, they're better than the Princess Toy Boxes in TTF. But FLE will mostly solve the MK's current overcrowding that already exists. In its current form, it probably won't add an appreciable capacity increase.

EDIT: In my earlier post, I said it restored "Fantasyland's capacity," not the park's. :wave:

I appreciate the explanation. That makes more sense. But to some extent, it's kind of fancy accounting. It is helping to address the capacity problems of the park. I'm not sure that the rest really matters all that much.

I don't want to open the PH can of worms (but I will). So many people here on the forums have objections to Pixie Hollow. But most of them don't seem to realize just how hugely popular the Disney Fairies franchise is and how important it is to the Disney Co as a whole.

I've gone on and on in other threads about how its a 2-billion-dollar a year (and growing) franchise. How it helps Disney hold on to their target audience of little girls between the Princess phase and the Hannah Montana years. Etc, etc. Most recently, Disney cast Elizabeth Banks as Tinkerbell in the romantic comedy Tink.

So while PH may not be all that popular among the people on this forum, it really makes a lot of sense for it to be included in FL because it is far more popular than any of the properties suggested by the posters here.

 

[jt04]

I appreciate the explanation. That makes more sense. But to some extent, it's kind of fancy accounting. It is helping to address the capacity problems of the park. I'm not sure that the rest really matters all that much.

I don't want to open the PH can of worms (but I will). So many people here on the forums have objections to Pixie Hollow. But most of them don't seem to realize just how hugely popular the Disney Fairies franchise is and how important it is to the Disney Co as a whole.

I've gone on and on in other threads about how its a 2-billion-dollar a year (and growing) franchise. How it helps Disney hold on to their target audience of little girls between the Princess phase and the Hannah Montana years. Etc, etc. Most recently, Disney cast Elizabeth Banks as Tinkerbell in the romantic comedy Tink.

So while PH may not be all that popular among the people on this forum, it really makes a lot of sense for it to be included in FL because it is far more popular than any of the properties suggested by the posters here.

This is exactly right. John Lasseter has explained the reasons and strategy behind the FLE. But we live in a me me me society so people only want what they want and that is it. Call it selfishness, narcissism, whatever. From what I understand the WDW version will be far superior than the Disneyland version which looks amazing. I can imagine that it would impress the age group you mention even more and that is the point. That said, an E or at least a D ticket should anchor this new land IMO.

 

[Lee]

So many people here on the forums have objections to Pixie Hollow. But most of them don't seem to realize just how hugely popular the Disney Fairies franchise is and how important it is to the Disney Co as a whole.

Unfortunately for PH...far more important people also have objections to Pixie Hollow.
If I were a betting man (which I am...) PH is not something I would be putting any money on right now. Not sure it still has much of a pulse.

 

[lebeau]

Unfortunately for PH...far more important people also have objections to Pixie Hollow.
If I were a betting man (which I am...) PH is not something I would be putting any money on right now. Not sure it still has much of a pulse.

Interesting... I would have though Lasseter's involvement in the franchise would have offered it some amount of protection.

Based on all the rumors, I've assumed PH would be drastically reduced from the original concept art. But I have always assumed they will at least create a dedicated Tink M&G. They'll have riots on their hands if they don't at least preserve that.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

Unfortunately for PH...far more important people also have objections to Pixie Hollow.
If I were a betting man (which I am...) PH is not something I would be putting any money on right now. Not sure it still has much of a pulse.

Thank god PH would have stunk.

 

[wdwfan94]

Unfortunately for PH...far more important people also have objections to Pixie Hollow.
If I were a betting man (which I am...) PH is not something I would be putting any money on right now. Not sure it still has much of a pulse.

Do you konw if it will be replaced by anything or just a bunch of grass and trees?

 

[BrerFrog]

Interesting... I would have though Lasseter's involvement in the franchise would have offered it some amount of protection.

I was thinking the same, Dumbo and PH have his name spelled all over them.

The question is, is there anything on the pipeline as a possible replacement for PH if the project does not materialize? Or are we just getting trees and grass?

If PH doesn't happen they will need to quickly find a place to put the Fairies M&Gs.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

I was thinking the same, Dumbo and PH have his name spelled all over them.

The question is, is there anything on the pipeline as a possible replacement for PH if the project does not materialize? Or are we just getting trees and grass?

If PH doesn't happen they will need to quickly find a place to put the Fairies M&Gs.

Why? No one cares about the other Faries build a small M&G for Tink and be done with it.

 

[BrerFrog]

Why? No one cares about the other Faries build a small M&G for Tink and be done with it.

Good point. :lol:

They would need to build a new M&G anyway, or just put her in some random place in FL. With the lines she draws, they will probably need a lot of free space, though.