Expert's Planned Attraction Updates?

[Lee]

Wasn't the Magic Kingdom beautification another project that was shoved through the pipeline by corporate?

Not that I've heard. Refurbs, at least cosmetic ones, have always been a basic part of park operations.
MK has just decided to do a lot recently, likely so they can be done before FLE opens.

 

[cslafferty]

While FLE is not a direct response to WWoHP, now that it's open and attracting crowds, the public's eyes will now turn to Disney to see what's next for them. When FLE is ready to open, expectations will be high, and I can't believe that there's anyone in the Disney org. that will want to see that fail, whether their intention is to maintain Walt's dream, or to simply line their pockets.

I also can't imagine a FL without Dumbo. I may be wrong, but I believe I read in a bio that when Walt planned DL, which the MK is modeled after, FL was intended to be the land of classic Disney fairytales. Dumbo is one of them. I'm all for change and expansion, but I would always hope that the basic premise of the parks would always be maintained. IMHO.

 

[cslafferty]

I also feel the theme of the FLE seems to be more geared towards girls, but if you think about the other lands, they tend to be more masculine - pirates, frontier, space, etc. However, with each princess comes a prince and other male supporting characters that will hopefully appeal to young boys as well. My young son enjoyed all of those movies as much as my daughters did. The MK has always been more geared to younger children and families than EP and DHS, IMO. I don't think young boys will have a problem with FL.

 

[jt04]

While FLE is not a direct response to WWoHP, now that it's open and attracting crowds, the public's eyes will now turn to Disney to see what's next for them. When FLE is ready to open, expectations will be high, and I can't believe that there's anyone in the Disney org. that will want to see that fail, whether their intention is to maintain Walt's dream, or to simply line their pockets.

I also can't imagine a FL without Dumbo. I may be wrong, but I believe I read in a bio that when Walt planned DL, which the MK is modeled after, FL was intended to be the land of classic Disney fairytales. Dumbo is one of them. I'm all for change and expansion, but I would always hope that the basic premise of the parks would always be maintained. IMHO.

Yes but Walt probably never would have envisioned the manner in which wdw has evolved. Given that there are 4 very unique parks, each capable of showcasing Dumbo and all in need of more content, I think it is likely he would approve of an all European folklore based FL at the MK with Dumbo featured somewhere else. IMO.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

I hate that people keep throwing this statement around as if its fact. It doesn't even make sense that TDO would fight any sort of expansion or upgrades. "NO, WE DONT WANT ANYTHING OVER HERE! WE JUST WANT OUR PARKS TO BE STAGNANT!!" Its such a ridiculous statement and you guys need to stop using it. If anything, the higher ups would be the ones halting projects, not TDO. And don't give me the excuse that they just want to look good for the higher ups by not spending cash, cause thats ridiculous as well. New attractions bring people back who will thus spend money, and the idea is to always make more than last year. If TDO was trying to impress their bosses, they would want new stuff in the parks to drive business to continually beat the previous years income.

Also, I dont know why people keep complaining that the FLE is too princess driven. Why does it matter? Those classic movies are unisex. I am a 31 yr old male, and I prefer Beauty & the Beast over say Monsters Inc or the Incredibles. I dont know why some keep thinking about the FLE expansion in terms of "its too girly". It just means that you don't like those franchises, but those movies that are being portrayed in this expansion are enjoyed by guys and girls alike.

Why? Because a couple people on here who are armchair imagineers said so? I don't believe that anyone on these message boards is deep enough within the company to get any sort of info like that.

And if it was forced, it wasn't because TDO doesn't want to do anything, it was because Universal was getting an expansion in Harry Potter and the execs at Disney wanted to also tout the fact that they are expanding as well. Im just sick of this whole "TDO was forced to do this expansion because they refuse to do anything and just dont care about the parks" attitude.

The two best posts that I've read on here today. :sohappy:

 

[Disneyfanatic!!]

Dumbo is Americana.

As the traveling circus it will be themed as, which were gaining popularity early last century in the states. Yet not so much in Europe. At least ones utilizing Americana. There is a perfect area east of the town square. Or it could fit DHS also or CMM if they intend to keep that land.

FF needs a cohesive backstory. Dumboland will destroy that potential.:brick:

Fantasyland is not World Showcase.

Dumbo fits in fine. Casey Jr. was transporting the circus to it's next stop when they made an unscheduled stop in Fantasy Forest.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Or Dumbo is the most popular attraction and they want to double the capacity :brick:

That's good! As far as i'm concerned, i'm liking the dumbo expansion! More people will be waiting in line for that, then holding up lines for PPF, Little Mermaid ride, and the rest of the rides!

Heck, i bet half of the theme park guests with children will forget about all the other lands and head straight to Fantasyland and spend there whoe day there! Soon you will see a 15 minute wait for splash mountain

Or maybe even be the only ones to walk into the country bear jamboree :lookaroun

But besides keeping crowds away from better attractions (hehe) i think fantasyland didn't need an expansion! Fantasyland needed a completely upgrade on all attractions as it was!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'm not sure that FLE will actually drive merchandise. They didn't build in too many merchandise locations, and they're actually getting rid of the 2nd highest grossing store in the Magic Kingdom (County Bounty). I would also maintain that because the FLE is so specific in who it caters to, especially from a merchandise standpoint, that it's really not going to help much in that respect.

Simply put, there isn't a franchise that exists right now that has the massive theme park merchandise appeal that Harry Potter has, so Disney's best bet is divide and conquer. Princesses for the girls, Cars for the boys, Star Wars for the older crowd, and possibly more throwback shirts and whatnot for the fanboys.

 

[PirateFrank]

Again, no.
FLE has nothing to do with Potter. It is not, and was never meant to be, an "answer" for HP. The Potter countermeasures were all cancelled.

Not to sound argumentative....but what exactly were the countermeasures then?

To me FLE seems like an answer to Potter, because I can't see something like the Monsters Inc Coaster or another E ticket thrown into one of the parks an 'answer' to potter.

To be a true answer to potter, it has to be either a full expansion of a park or a 5th gate itself...

we know the 5th gate is a pipe dream.....so that leaves an expansion on a park.

Which brings me back to FLE.....if not that, what?

 

[Disneyfanatic!!]

Not to sound argumentative....but what exactly were the countermeasures then?

To me FLE seems like an answer to Potter, because I can't see something like the Monsters Inc Coaster or another E ticket thrown into one of the parks an 'answer' to potter.

To be a true answer to potter, it has to be either a full expansion of a park or a 5th gate itself...

we know the 5th gate is a pipe dream.....so that leaves an expansion on a park.

Which brings me back to FLE.....if not that, what?

The countermeasures I think was a mysterious island at DAK.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes but Walt probably never would have envisioned the manner in which wdw has evolved. Given that there are 4 very unique parks, each capable of showcasing Dumbo and all in need of more content, I think it is likely he would approve of an all European folklore based FL at the MK with Dumbo featured somewhere else. IMO.

So then, what part of the expansion were you trying to attribute to him? The meet and greets of Cinderella and Aurora?

 

[Lee]

Not to sound argumentative....but what exactly were the countermeasures then?

To be a true answer to potter, it has to be either a full expansion of a park or a 5th gate itself...

Not exactly. Ratther than a huge expansion to one park, they had proposed plans for major attraction additions to each park (as Martin so thoughtfully listed in an old thread).

Little Mermaid - That one we're getting.
Space Mountain 2.0 - The REAL version. New track, effects, trains with audio, etc.
Imagination 4 - Finally
World Showcase project - Not sure which one
Skydance - To replace RoE.
Star Tours 2 - Getting that one.
M:I Coaster / PP west - Self explanatory. Coaster and expansion still on hold.
Mysterious Island - Altered/adapted version of TDS' signature land.

Taken one by one, they are no match for Potter. But had they all been prepared to open 2010-2011.....that would have been an interesting battle.
(Funny how the only two we're getting are also going into other parks, thus being able to reduce costs.....)

 

[jt04]

So then, what part of the expansion were you trying to attribute to him? The meet and greets of Cinderella and Aurora?

No, I was wondering if the original preliminary designs of a "european forest" for the MK Fantasyland might not have been similar to what they are going to do now. Specifically, were 20K, Dumbo and the sky ride added after Walt's death. It appears Imagineering may have defaulted to the Disneyland model and added 20K as an after thought fearing they whole enterprise might fail for lack of attractions. Oddly, nobody seems to want to answer the question. Someone said they were going to ask an Imagineer at D23 but I don't believe they did or they didn't get a very positive reaction.

A book detailing the nitty gritty behind the scenes politics from 1966 to 1971 would be welcome while there are still some folks left with those memories. They could call it "Disney War: The Prequel" :lol:

 

[DisneyNut2007]

So then, what part of the expansion were you trying to attribute to him? The meet and greets of Cinderella and Aurora?

Stop dismissing them as meet-and-greets already! You know darn well that a lot of us are sick and tired of this constant unfair and illogical conclusion-jumping!

 

[WorldKey]

I think it needs a little testosterone. Ariel, Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Pixie Hollow... Whuh? Aside from Peter Pan's Flight (and Philharmagic), Fantasyland is so girly. :lol:

(I guess the defense against that would be that every other land is testosterone heavy.)

No worries...I have a little girl

I totally agree - they should have worked in something like a Neverland adventure area or Pleasure Island for the boys (not actually an attraction that simulates them being turned into Donkeys! Just fun and games for the boys). Princesses is where (Disney has found) the money is - little girls are going berserk over them......

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, I was wondering if the original preliminary designs of a "european forest" for the MK Fantasyland might not have been similar to what they are going to do now. Specifically, were 20K, Dumbo and the sky ride added after Walt's death. It appears Imagineering may have defaulted to the Disneyland model and added 20K as an after thought fearing they whole enterprise might fail for lack of attractions.

The entire park was designed after Walt Disney's death. The original Fantasyland attractions that did not make it were the three dark rides.

 

[jt04]

The entire park was designed after Walt Disney's death. The original Fantasyland attractions that did not make it were the three dark rides.

Well we know for a fact that the utilidors were his idea. Also the basic location of the MK on the vast property. We also know he was heavily involved with abstract and preliminary concepts for E.P.C.O.T. which he intended for the southern part of the property. Wasn't he also involved with the MK monorail and Contemporary designs?

The idea that he didn't have some discussions with Imagineering about his vision for the MK is naive it seems to me. Fantasy Forest seems very Walt-esque to me.

 

[tirian]

No.
Thinking the expansion is "too girly" has nothing to do with not liking the franchises. I like them all fine.
I just don't want to see hundreds of millions of dollars spent on over-glorified meet and greets pertaining to those franchises. Nor do I want to spend any time at all watching Cinderella magically change clothes, or helping Aurora color in her cottage. Simply put, and many (including some very highly placed Disney officials) agree, there is very little in FLE to attract adults without children or little boys.
To quote a Disney suit from Burbank: We're spending all this money on an expansion that will, at best, help MK's capacity, but do nothing for it's turnstile count."

Lots of suits are annoyed with the FLE because it doesn't improve the park's capacity at all. TLM is basically patching the holes left by the 20K removal and Stitch change.

The M&G's replace the TTF circus tents; and although the princesses do deserve better than what they've had in the back corner of the MK, Entertainment is already nervous about the multimillion dollar M&G's with (relatively) tiny hourly capacity.

If I were in charge, I'd keep everything the same except Pixie Hollow, and use the space for the shelved Mickey's Circus D-ticket. Then a new E-ticket would make its way to AL. :lol:

 

[MichWolv]

Lots of suits are annoyed with the FLE because it doesn't improve the park's capacity at all. TLM is basically patching the holes left by the 20K removal and Stitch change.

The M&G's replace the TTF circus tents; and although the princesses do deserve better than what they've had in the back corner of the MK, Entertainment is already nervous about the multimillion dollar M&G's with (relatively) tiny hourly capacity.

If I were in charge, I'd keep everything the same except Pixie Hollow, and use the space for the shelved Mickey's Circus D-ticket. Then a new E-ticket would make its way to AL. :lol:

I don't remember the Mickey's Circus D-ticket, but if it's a dark ride featuring Mickey and the gang, I'm all for it. I still think that core group of characters deserves a dark ride somewhere.

As for the rest, I don't know how much the facy M&G's will cost, but they actually sound like very good ideas to me, although I'd hope that one of them inlcudes a prince as well.

The capacity issue is a big deal, though. Seems like this could be deal with by the addition of a C-ticket dark ride to one of them. I always though Sleeping Beauty could be done really well as a dark ride -- I would guess a pretty strong effect Maleficent could be developed.

 

[jt04]

Lots of suits are annoyed with the FLE because it doesn't improve the park's capacity at all. TLM is basically patching the holes left by the 20K removal and Stitch change.

The M&G's replace the TTF circus tents; and although the princesses do deserve better than what they've had in the back corner of the MK, Entertainment is already nervous about the multimillion dollar M&G's with (relatively) tiny hourly capacity.

If I were in charge, I'd keep everything the same except Pixie Hollow, and use the space for the shelved Mickey's Circus D-ticket. Then a new E-ticket would make its way to AL. :lol:

If FL didn't also have Pooh, SWSA, Phil., PPF, IASW, Carousel, Tea Cups already I would be more concerned if I were them. But people will have tons of options and since the entire land is targeting a smaller demographic than if it had thrill rides, I really don't think it will be a problem that fastpass can't solve if needed. It is not like they will have the issues the WWoHP has with it's tiny shops.