epcot wand....

wannab@dis

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
Guys... you really need to lay off the kool-aid. What did you expect Walt to say publically? "We're doing this to get rich." No, but that's what he wanted. He didn't have some utopian reasons, he wanted to make money.

And please, let's not start the whole "What would Walt do" mantra. You have absolutely no clue what he would do. Based on history, though, I personally think you have it totally backwards. From the outset, Disneyland was built with synergy between the different divisions. The parks were marketed on TV. The TV shows and movies were heavily placed within the parks. It was all built to market the products and make money.

Edit: Oh, by the way, I've seen an interview with Tony Baxter that basically said the early years of Epcot were worrisome because the public just didn't get the park. I've seen and read other items about WDI having to hurry to get changes into the park to make it more consumer acceptable. So, that's not something that I got from looking a somebody's pictures, it's "straight from the horse's mouth." ;)
 
Expo_Seeker40

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
*gah I really need to get to Penny's* :eek:


Walt was at times a mean, demanding person, and he swore and drank and smoked, but if he wanted to get rich than he should have just come up with another amuseument park with some wooden rollercoasters and some carnival rides because thats what people wanted and yet more people left Disneyland talking about the unique thrill rides or even imfamous rides like it's a small world then they were gawking and raving about mr. toad and the 3:00 parade with snow white...

There are a number of examples that had people discourage walt and where he was going to build Disneyland, and yet this man wanted to get rich from an orange grove in the hicktown of Anaheim, please..... :rolleyes:

Art Linkletter was shocked when walt spoke of building "another disneyland in florida"...."and there will be EPCOT" Walt was more interested in that than he was the magic kingdom, in an interview with Roy E. Disney he says "my uncle and dad would fight constantly over that, dad knew the magic kingdom would make money...... but walt wanted EPCOT..."

If anything, realising disneyland was a success made walt strive to use his creative talent to keep pumping out new things to see and do, not a rehash of the animated characters, though there would atleast be some for the kids at floridas magic kingdom

Making money? A 30,000 populated glass enclosed home owner division sounds pretty risky to me

Of course the parks were marketed on TV, he took full advantage of wonderful world of color, does that mean every single land has a wonderful world of color refrence at disneyland? Did zorro and davy crocket have their own ride, parade float, or take over tom sawyer island when walt knew they were successful when he could have taken the tomorrowland 67 budget and give it all to zoro and davy because thats what people wanted, or did he use a good business strategy of talent and sponsors to actually make tomorrowland one of the most popular places in the park with new rides that didn't rely on characters and people still came to enjoy.

With the exception of fantasyland, the parade, fireworks, and some light refreneces to swiss family, tom saywer, zoro, and davy crocket, and mr. lincoln, what else in disneyland was heavily character based from current disney shows and movies? Amazing how more people enjoyed the unique stories, technology, and thrill rides than they did snow white and peter pan, sure the kids loved it, but more people were riding other things than just what was in fantasyland and still walking away enjoying it.


yes someone made a comment that "all this is is just a world's fair", and with alot of concrete and 15 minute dark rides, it pretty much is a world's fair, but I'd say Epcot's true colors came out in the 90s with a balance of fun and learning and characters, not the overuse of a certain brand or character :brick:
 
wannab@dis

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Explorer said:
Walt alreay had his millions when DL was built...Why risk his sucsess?Because it was a labor of love.Sould be the same now.
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:lol:

I know you're young, but please... Guess what every millionaire wants? A labor of love? Nope....












To be a BILLIONAIRE.

:D


I will have to say this, though. This thread has been enlightening and I would call it a major success. It has shown the poignantly illogical musings of the EPCOT purists. :zipit:
 
yankspy

yankspy

Well-Known Member
wannab@dis said:
Guys... you really need to lay off the kool-aid. What did you expect Walt to say publically? "We're doing this to get rich." No, but that's what he wanted. He didn't have some utopian reasons, he wanted to make money.

And please, let's not start the whole "What would Walt do" mantra. You have absolutely no clue what he would do. Based on history, though, I personally think you have it totally backwards. From the outset, Disneyland was built with synergy between the different divisions. The parks were marketed on TV. The TV shows and movies were heavily placed within the parks. It was all built to market the products and make money.

Edit: Oh, by the way, I've seen an interview with Tony Baxter that basically said the early years of Epcot were worrisome because the public just didn't get the park. I've seen and read other items about WDI having to hurry to get changes into the park to make it more consumer acceptable. So, that's not something that I got from looking a somebody's pictures, it's "straight from the horse's mouth." ;)
Click to expand...
Your second statement contradicts your first one.
 
Timmay

Timmay

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Explorer said:
Walt alreay had his millions when DL was built...Why risk his sucsess?
Click to expand...

I wonder why when Bill Gates already had his millions he continued to take risks, or his hundreds of millions, or his billions, or...


EPCOT Explorer said:
Because it was a labor of love..
Click to expand...

Then Walt needed to just let people in for free, since he wasn't interested in making money or anything.


EPCOT Explorer said:
Sould be the same now.
Click to expand...

Yeah!! I should be thinner and should have more hair on top of my head, too. To heck with how things really are...I am strictly dealing with "shoulds" from now on.
 
yankspy

yankspy

Well-Known Member
wannab@dis said:
Yeah, I see your point about confusion. But one is historical actions, the other is concerning the assumed present actions of a historical figure. There is a difference.
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True. I do believe that there is some middle ground here. Walt was a man who believed that the best way to make money was to be head and shoulders above the rest in that field. That meant providing quality entertainment which sometimes meant overlooking the cost. I seem to remember reading that it was Roy who was the more level-headed business type and that Walt was more of an idea man.

I am also very apprehensive in inserting logic into a conversation about WDW for a few reasons. There is not much logic in entertainment. It is very subjective, which is why it is difficult to know what will succeed. Furthermore, logic is not the be all end all that many think. I studied logic in school and it is amazing how one can prove and disprove the same exact point using logic.

BTW, I will say that I like your avatar because I do indeed like the hat. I believe it fits with the studios. It is a representation of one of the old classic Disney movies,(which was Walt's favorite) and it fits with the theme.
 
Pumbas Nakasak

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
How does a big blue hat with stars on it "fit" with 1930s Hollywood? Were there a lot of wizards around then? If so get the wand on the wall of the GMR
 
wannab@dis

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
yankspy said:
True. I do believe that there is some middle ground here. Walt was a man who believed that the best way to make money was to be head and shoulders above the rest in that field. That meant providing quality entertainment which sometimes meant overlooking the cost. I seem to remember reading that it was Roy who was the more level-headed business type and that Walt was more of an idea man.
Click to expand...

Yes, Roy was a stabilizer for Walt's wildest dreams and investments. They both wanted to build a profitable park, but Roy wanted to make sure it had a better chance of success. However, it was also Roy that wanted to curtail Walt's attempt to bring on numerous sponsors. He was worried that if the park didn't work, the failure would affect many of the sponsor's other connections to the film division. Again, Walt was looking for ways to offset costs for higher gains.

yankspy said:
I am also very apprehensive in inserting logic into a conversation about WDW for a few reasons. There is not much logic in entertainment. It is very subjective, which is why it is difficult to know what will succeed. Furthermore, logic is not the be all end all that many think. I studied logic in school and it is amazing how one can prove and disprove the same exact point using logic.
Click to expand...

That's a little different level of logic patterns than what we'll encounter here. Maybe a better term would be "sound reasoning" instead of logic. :D
yankspy said:
BTW, I will say that I like your avatar because I do indeed like the hat. I believe it fits with the studios. It is a representation of one of the old classic Disney movies,(which was Walt's favorite) and it fits with the theme.
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Yep, I agree. "It was all started by a mouse." And what better weenie for the "studios" park than the hat worn by that mouse in a ground-breaking movie! Personally, I like the earful tower to bring the mechanical studio icon with a Disney touch, but it just doesn't have the impact, nor placement.
 
jakeman

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Expo_Seeker40 said:
I'm not criticising you but please show us the evidence with attendance facts that showed EPCOT Center was a failure or it was it the word of mouth by some kids who rather be playing floppy disk games that found EPCOT Center boring.
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Let me turn this back around and ask for the proof that Epcot was successful. I would also like attendance supported by statements, not just photos of a busy park. I can most likely produce numerous photos of it empty. Additionally, you are looking down your nose in the bolded statement. It is statements like this that support the "you don't get it, you're an idiot" impression folks get from purist.

Expo_Seeker said:
jakeman to say its not important, it's just a theme park then defies the whole point of walt disney and imagineering making a theme park in the first place. He could have made it so simple, a mere backlot studio experience near burnank, but he didn't because he knew that merry go rounds and average carinval rides were owned by people at parks who did not care about the their parks importance so long as they could charge money and make a buck.
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It's still not important. It's a theme park. You are adding extra meaning to something that exisit to take your money.

Expo_Seeker said:
If someone had come to him and said "walt, these folks want pirates of the carribean to be a rollercoaster ride" Now walt could have been stubborn and said "no! it will be a boat ride and the guests go down the waterfalls into the past and see the pirates" so then you have a polarizing thing, the audience will either like or not, and may find more of the same thing they hate i.e. EPCOT Center's future world and will say "this place sucks" and go home, but there will still be busloads of people going there to see it who never saw it yet, so the money would still be flowing.
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This arguement is not valid as it more than likely has no basis in fact. As far as I know Walt was never approached to make Pirates a roller coaster. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Expo_Seeker40 said:
Or, like EPCOT Explorer said, you could take the time to please both audiences and ensure money from both of them like actually putting something in the SSE descent and having it be up to the guests convenience to enjoy the ride the way they want, then everyones happy.
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The problem is, purist will never be pleased.
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
The problem is, purist will never be pleased.
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Not true...I'm very pleased with the direction EPCOT is taking.It seems like things are strting to turn around:A new SSE,no Wand,plans for a new JIYI,the Land and it's new makeover,plans for Fuji...It all works.




I know you're young, but please... Guess what every millionaire wants? A labor of love? Nope....












To be a BILLIONAIRE.




I will have to say this, though. This thread has been enlightening and I would call it a major success. It has shown the poignantly illogical musings of the EPCOT purists.
Click to expand...
How is this illogical?Walt loved what he did and DL was the personifiction of his dream...Most thought it would fail.Roy certainly did but look what happened.Disney Parks are some of the most famous and enchanting entertainment venues on the face of this earth.I'm sure this was all Walt's evil plan to make big $$$...Did you NOT see the quote?!?

You mention the W word and see what happens......
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I know..I know...Sorry.:eek:
 
krankenstein

krankenstein

Well-Known Member
Hey now, I think Drew Carry is doing a great job on The Price is Right! Not close to his greatest work though, Sounds Dangerous!!!! :lookaroun
 

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