EPCOT Resorts Cancelled Monorail Loop

[unkadug]

See, the company that says dreams really do come true really does make people's dreams come true!

How? By stealing other peoples dreams?

That's weird.....I'm missing a pin set.

 

[marni1971]

And we all know why WDW has a cheap PotC clone instead of WRE... Because they listen.

They don't listen. They do read.

WDWco has plans for resort wide transportation, using at least 3-4 types of separated grade transport systems. They've had them for at least 20 years. They've just chosen not to implement them.

I've put a shout out for the 'footer' photos BTW.

 

[PeterAlt]

I don't think the existing foundations (if they do exist) would have any impact on future monorail expansion. If the location works, they may use them. However, compared to the overall cost of such a project, the foundations (even in Florida/Swamp) are relatively inexpensive. The biggest benefit is lessening the impact on the construction area, but even that would be minimal given the scale of the project.

[nitpick]They're not 'footers' - 'footer' is a colloquial term for "footing" which is an element of one type of foundation design. That foundation type would not be appropriate for a monorail pylon.[/nitpick]

My plan makes use of one known "footer" that was originally intended for a proposed spur loop to the DTD area (called WDW Village at the time). Instead of extending it all the way to DTD as the original plans from the early '80's had it, which would be ridiculously expensive to build now, I propose to take it just east to a vacant adjacent site zoned for future mixed use. This extremely short distance is a mere fraction of the distance as it would have been if the line was extended further southeast to DTD. With that one footer already in place, the rest of the distance to this vacant lot would require the construction of less than just a few additional footers (in addition to the necessary pylon beams, overhead track, electrical systems, switches, etc.). That one footer amounts to a huge savings in construction costs when you realize that only a few footers are required for that short distance. Once off-site of EPCOT Center, the spur I propose here is already at the site of the vacant lot. From here, the spur could run right through a future development that could also support the pylons for the spur running through it (in addition to the developed structure). This development I propose there can be a luxury hotel, like the Contemporary and include additional EPCOT convention facilities, as well as light retail, parking, emergency services, and a second intermodal center for light rail connections to Disney Springs, DHS, DAK, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizard Beach, Corando Springs, AKL, as well as the moderately priced resorts.

My plan works just fine without it, but it's included as an inexpensive value-added feature that can maximize profit potential through the building of a cash-generating development - leveraging monorail for increased demand and room/convention rates, etc. This would not only pay for its own construction over time, but will also pay for (at least in part) the expansion of the monorail to DHS, as showed in my plan. The plan is a win-win proposal and has no negative impact that I can think of.

 

[PeterAlt]

They don't listen. They do read.

WDWco has plans for resort wide transportation, using at least 3-4 types of separated grade transport systems. They've had them for at least 20 years. They've just chosen not to implement them.

I've put a shout out for the 'footer' photos BTW.

Yeah, this was before 9-11, if I recall. I would love to get my hands on that plan as well. What do you mean by "shout out" on the footers?

 

[Hakunamatata]

My plan makes use of one known "footer" that was originally intended for a proposed spur loop to the DTD area (called WDW Village at the time). Instead of extending it all the way to DTD as the original plans from the early '80's had it, which would be ridiculously expensive to build now, I propose to take it just east to a vacant adjacent site zoned for future mixed use. This extremely short distance is a mere fraction of the distance as it would have been if the line was extended further southeast to DTD. With that one footer already in place, the rest of the distance to this vacant lot would require less than just a few additional footers for required for its construction. That one footer amounts to a huge savings in construction costs when you realize that only a few footers are required for that short distance. Once off-site of EPCOT Center, the spur I propose here is already at the site of the vacant lot. From here, the spur could run right through a future development that could also support the pylons for the spur running through it (in addition to the developed structure). This development I propose there can be a luxury hotel, like the Contemporary and include additional EPCOT convention facilities, as well as light retail, parking, emergency services, and a second intermodal center for light rail connections to Disney Springs, DHS, DAK, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizard Beach, Corando Springs, AKL, as well as the moderately priced resorts.

My plan works just fine without it, but it's included as an inexpensive value-added feature that can maximize profit potential through the building of a cash-generating development - leveraging monorail for increased demand and room/convention rates, etc. This would not only pay for its own construction over time, but will also pay for (at least in part) the expansion of the monorail to DHS, as showed in my plan. The plan is a win-win proposal and has no negative impact that I can think of.

One issue I see is that you are using additional retail, resort, and convention development to defray the cost of developing the transit. Those additional items are likely not in demand and TDO is not going to build them just to hide the expense of expanding transportation when they could just spend money on expanding transportation.

 

[PeterAlt]

One issue I see is that you are using additional retail, resort, and convention development to defray the cost of developing the transit. Those additional items are likely not in demand and TDO is not going to build them just to hide the expense of expanding transportation when they could just spend money on expanding transportation.

EPCOT resorts and convention facilities are in strong demand and short supply.

 

[RedDad]

I don't think the existing foundations (if they do exist) would have any impact on future monorail expansion. If the location works, they may use them. However, compared to the overall cost of such a project, the foundations (even in Florida/Swamp) are relatively inexpensive. The biggest benefit is lessening the impact on the construction area, but even that would be minimal given the scale of the project.

[nitpick]They're not 'footers' - 'footer' is a colloquial term for "footing" which is an element of one type of foundation design. That foundation type would not be appropriate for a monorail pylon.[/nitpick]

Lol - the "footer" thing is one of my pet peeves as well, but its used so frequently that I've learned not to point it out...

As I said in the other thread (before I was fetched), I will be shocked if that is a footing. I'll be interested to see an up-close photo, because it looks like a junction box to me. It also would not have made good sense to pour just a footing and leave it there, but we shall see...

Either way, one footing is a drop in the bucket of a project this size.

 

[PeterAlt]

Lol - the "footer" thing is one of my pet peeves as well, but its used so frequently that I've learned not to point it out...

As I said in the other thread (before I was fetched), I will be shocked if that is a footing. I'll be interested to see an up-close photo, because it looks like a junction box to me. It also would not have made good sense to pour just a footing and leave it there, but we shall see...

Either way, one footing is a drop in the bucket of a project this size.

As I said, this would be used for an extremely short run that doesn't even cross EPCOT Center Drive and will pay for itself as well as generate new revenues that could help pay for the spur I propose west of EPCOT to my proposed DHS Intermodal Center.

Any way, yeah, I would like this to be settled once and for all about the footer. The skepticism is starting to get old and irritating. Look at all the other footers in place. It's an exact replica - a clone of all the other ones. Utility poles don't look like gigantic concrete blocks buried underground with pylon holes in their centers. It's not going to have a sign hanging on it saying "Hi, I'm a buried monorail pylon footer!"

 

[RedDad]

As I said, this would be used for an extremely short run that doesn't even cross EPCOT Center Drive and will pay for itself as well as generate new revenues that could help pay for the spur I propose west of EPCOT to my proposed DHS Intermodal Center.

Any way, yeah, I would like this to be settled once and for all about the footer. The skepticism is starting to get old and irritating. Look at all the other footers in place. It's an exact replica - a clone of all the other ones. Utility poles don't look like gigantic concrete blocks buried underground with pylon holes in their centers. It's not going to have a sign hanging on it saying "Hi, I'm a buried monorail pylon footer!"

Not trying to be irritating, but I know footings, and I know how they're constructed. I've also designed quite a few buried junction boxes that look exactly like that. The biggest indicator to me is that, unless the scale in Google Earth is way off, that "footing" is over 500 feet away from the existing monorail track in Epcot. If it was intended to support a track connecting from the Epcot beams, where are the intermediate footings between the track and that one? There should be at least 4, as the average spacing between supports is around 110 feet.

It's certainly possible that's a footing - just doesn't seem likely to me.

 

[PeterAlt]

Not trying to be irritating, but I know footings, and I know how they're constructed. I've also designed quite a few buried junction boxes that look exactly like that. The biggest indicator to me is that, unless the scale in Google Earth is way off, that "footing" is over 500 feet away from the existing monorail track in Epcot. If it was intended to support a track connecting from the Epcot beams, where are the intermediate footings between the track and that one? There should be at least 4, as the average spacing between supports is around 110 feet.

It's certainly possible that's a footing - just doesn't seem likely to me.

Okay, you've fired me up. I'll put something together today that shows the construction of the footers before and after they were buried and I'll mark on the blueprints exactly where the ones from these photos are. Each footer is equally distant.

 

[Hakunamatata]

EPCOT resorts and convention facilities are in strong demand and short supply.

Based on?

 

[PeterAlt]

Not trying to be irritating, but I know footings, and I know how they're constructed. I've also designed quite a few buried junction boxes that look exactly like that. The biggest indicator to me is that, unless the scale in Google Earth is way off, that "footing" is over 500 feet away from the existing monorail track in Epcot. If it was intended to support a track connecting from the Epcot beams, where are the intermediate footings between the track and that one? There should be at least 4, as the average spacing between supports is around 110 feet.

It's certainly possible that's a footing - just doesn't seem likely to me.

Before I go all crazy with construction photos and graphics, let these specifications first soak in. This is taken from a monorail sales booklet during the early 80's from the Disney division that held the monorail patents which was later sold to Bombardier. Note the specifications, shown here, of the distance between the pylon beams, as well as the footers. Absorb this for now. In two hours or so, I'll prepare the graphics and construction photos, and I'll include precise measurements with Google Earth. You will see everything measures up.

 

[RedDad]

Yes, I've seen the brochure before. The supports are 110 ft apart as I stated. I'm obviously not following your thought process, so I look forward to seeing how that buried structure that is 500+ft away from the current track is a footing intended to be used to connect to that track. I'm honestly not trying to wind you up, just want to understand your thought process.

 

[RedDad]

Okay, you've fired me up. I'll put something together today that shows the construction of the footers before and after they were buried and I'll mark on the blueprints exactly where the ones from these photos are. Each footer is equally distant.

Just to be clear - see the image below from your overlay to understand the question I'm asking. Sorry for the poor quality. Is there any evidence of additional footings having been poured -other than the one we are wondering about- in FW?

 

[PeterAlt]

Just to be clear - see the image below from your overlay to understand the question I'm asking. Sorry for the poor quality. Is there any evidence of additional footings having been poured -other than the one we are wondering about- in FW?

Thank you for doing that. Where you ask "is that a footer" is exactly the footer I've been talking about. Where all the arrows you pointed to, the construction photos clearly show footers at those locations.

 

[RedDad]

Thank you for doing that. Where you ask "is that a footer" is exactly the footer I've been talking about. Where all the arrows you pointed to, the construction photos clearly show footers at those locations.

Have you posted these construction photos before? Seems like I remember seeing some in a previous thread, but I wasn't able to see any additional footings in them.

 

[danlb_2000]

Have you posted these construction photos before? Seems like I remember seeing some in a previous thread, but I wasn't able to see any additional footings in them.

Yeah, I looked at those photos also and don't see them, although the first image in the group supposidly showing the construction of the footers is showing as a broken link for me.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/yes-another-monorail-thread.852479/page-8

 

[PeterAlt]

Have you posted these construction photos before? Seems like I remember seeing some in a previous thread, but I wasn't able to see any additional footings in them.

Here's another one. I pointed an arrow to it. Its directly behind what is now the defunct WoL Pavilion. Here, you see it clear as day and exactly where you said one should be. Today it's covered up and you can't see it in the satellite photos. This is not the one I've been talking about, which is not covered up and can be seen easily with today's satellite imagery (located across the street). Before now, I thought the one in this picture was that one, but I guess its a second one. TWO identified so far!!!!! YIPPIEE!!

 

[Master Yoda]

Here's another one. I pointed an arrow to it. Its directly behind what is now the defunct WoL Pavilion. Here, you see it clear as day and exactly where you said one should be. Today it's covered up and you can't see it in the satellite photos. This is not the one I've been talking about, which is not covered up and can be seen easily with today's satellite imagery (located across the street). Before now, I thought the one in this picture was that one, but I guess its a second one. TWO identified so far!!!!! YIPPIEE!!

When you have a picture taken less than a year ago from 4 feet away that shows a footing you can say "Yippiee". Right now all you have are 2 anomalies on photos taken from hundreds if not thousands of feet away. They could just as well be a 4" slab or not even concrete at all.

 

[PeterAlt]

This next ones, I was about to mark all over it. I don't have to because you know where they should be. Look carefully.